Legality of Engineer Album Credit

[mosrite]

Hi folks,

Does anyone have any insight into where we stand as engineers regards album credits? Should we be demanding a contract stating our credit on the album or is it illegal for us not to be credited?

Any advice or experiences appreciated,

[Neve8128]

I've read once that engineers can copyright a final mix since the result of the sound of the final recording is that way because of the engineer who mixed.
If you give the same song to 10 different engineers I am sure all 10 mixes will sound somewhat different. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Sqye]

Actually, I believe that if your Scottish, you should technically be able to claim ownership of the entirety of any and all proceeds ever acquired in conjunction with the recording, label, and any and all artist merchandising, plus you get 100% claim to the entirety of any and all professional service fees - including legal, advertising, promotion, management, etc.

Juts make SUUUUUUURE they know you're Scottish, and you'll be all set

[Jay Kahrs]

I've been credited, mis-credited and sometimes not credited at all for whatever reasons from record company ball-dropping to whatever...





But yeah, in my case there's ALWAYS a contract that gets signed before we step into the studio that covers everything from deposts, credits, rights to usage, cancellations, people being unhappy....the whole deal.

It's usually turned in with the deposit check.

[mosrite]

I've been credited, mis-credited and sometimes not credited at all for whatever reasons from record company ball-dropping to whatever...

But yeah, in my case there's ALWAYS a contract that gets signed before we step into the studio that covers everything from deposts, credits, rights to usage, cancellations, people being unhappy....the whole deal.

It's usually turned in with the deposit check.

Thanks for your reponse.

Because I am in charge of the edit as well (and thus hold all of the source material) do you think I should be demanding a contract stating my credit before submitting the material to them for master?

Actually, I believe that if your Scottish, you should technically be able to claim ownership of the entirety of any and all proceeds ever acquired in conjunction with the recording, label, and any and all artist merchandising, plus you get 100% claim to the entirety of any and all professional service fees - including legal, advertising, promotion, management, etc.

Juts make SUUUUUUURE they know you're Scottish, and you'll be all set

Do you know where that stereotype comes from? It was used by the English during the Highland Clearances to describe Scots who didnt want to give up their land and country. Just thought you should know.

[Sqye]

I was only being silly. My Great grandfather on my dad's dad's side was Scottish. This is actually where my surname comes from.

Anyhow, I would almost always make sure, in a nice and a professional way, that you ask for what you want up front. It doesn't ever have to become advarsarial - if you keep your demands upbeat and positive, with your trigger-finger on your lawyer's phone number, just in case, you'll probably be fine. (In the US, people don't seem to have too much problem with that). If you do a search here at GS, you'll probably find quite a bit of useful info. Jules has often voiced strong points when it comes to work, management and business / legalities.

Also, you really don't want to have to call your lawyer, and start getting into too much of a back and forth - it can be costly, and a huge waste of time. It can also create unecessary enemies.

I've heard George Martin telling tales of being taken advantage of for decades, so I guess he'd probably advise the same.

After all, it doesn't make sense to try to negotiate retroactively, when they've already printed the credits.



Good luck with your situation, and let us know how it goes : )

[confooshus]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Hi folks,

Does anyone have any insight into where we stand as engineers regards album credits? Should we be demanding a contract...

Sure, if you want producers to stop calling you... Flys/Honey, it works...

[wwittman]

they are not OBLIGATED to credit engineers or anyone else (other than publishing information)

but it is common to credit engineers these days so requesting it and privding the info to the record company near the end of the project is usually all that's needed.

if you have a contract (which is more common for producers) you certainly would ask for a stated credit (and sometimes credit location, for example I request my producer credit on OUTSIDE CD packaging) in the contract.
But really all that guarantees is the use of their 'reasonable efforts' to ensure your credit... the idea being that you can ask them to fix it on the second run if they leave you off, but you can't SUE them or stop the release over it.

credits are nice.. but really it's the work that matters.

[soundeq]

My sugestion is keep on the artist, admin, and regular A&R about credits, and don't bring it up 1wk before the release date.

I usually make a call to Admin A&R about 2-3 months before release and remind them that I worked on the album. If you can get in touch with the artist do it too, but usually I get the main A&R and remind them of the songs I worked on...
If you make it great, if not, that sucks, move on, make more great music, but I would never hold up a project because of it.

I had one album that my assistant got credit on 4 of the songs insted of me (I worked on 8 songs).... I never bothered to call the label to change it, and come Grammy time, low and behold the album gets nominated... If I had made a piss I might have gotten the Grammy (due to the 51% rule). Am I pissed, a tiny tiny bit, but does it really bother me? no, not at all. Would I do the project again knowing what I know now (mis-credits) HELL's yah!
(made for a funny call from my assistant "ummm I got these grammy things with my name on them... do you want them?") I said: "dude!" frame them and put them on your wall fool!

The bigest sugestion I can make for credits, is keep yourself involved with the client/artist... If your talking to them often, they won't forget about you come credit time.

my .02

[mosrite]

Thanks a lot guys some great advice.

I was only being silly

I know mate. I just think it sometimes pays to know where stereotypes come from. No worries

[Stitch333]

The word from lawyers, references and periodicals, and numerous other sources (including my buisness inclined father) is that engineers are not entitled to anything other than their daily rate. In all my years of engineering, Ive never been offered points and (only when the project involves enough money) am I offered or will offer a contract. Liner credit is really at the discression of the client/label. If I killed the mix or the client has heard of me, I'll get credits in the liner....
I think 'Soundeq's advice is pretty sound. If you constantly keep on yer credits with all involved (though I dont bug the artist when a label or manager is involved) more than likely gonna get them. But if you dont, there is always another album to do...

[yawatta]

conversely, if you're working on a project that you DON'T want to be associated with, come up with a fun pseudonym

and make sure the first and last names are conflicting in where they come from.... jose smith or ming lee pantanazoupolos

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by yawatta

conversely, if you're working on a project that you DON'T want to be associated with, come up with a fun pseudonym

Allen Smithee is the standard "I don't want my name on this turd" credit for the film industry... I've used it more than once on a few recordings. I've also been stiffed on my credit on a lot of recordings where I was actually kinda grateful to the artist for forgetting my participation [shit that went on to sell a whole lot of units but not what I would ever want to be known for participation... in those cases (3 of them) my day rate was more than sufficient compensation!!].

[XSergeantD]

Originally Posted by soundeq

I had one album that my assistant got credit on 4 of the songs insted of me (I worked on 8 songs).... I never bothered to call the label to change it, and come Grammy time, low and behold the album gets nominated... If I had made a piss I might have gotten the Grammy (due to the 51% rule). Am I pissed, a tiny tiny bit, but does it really bother me? no, not at all. Would I do the project again knowing what I know now (mis-credits) HELL's yah!

I've received credis on albums because I made safeties of the reels which were somehow used to mix some songs. It's like pulling hairs trying to fix things like that. Even though Engineer and assistant were labeled clearly, and "Safties transfered by..." was written at the bottom of the reel box I somehow managed to get credit. I then began making notes like that in much smaller print. I don't know who gets all the names together, but be sure that any tape box/file/mp3/wav/ that leaves your facility has proper documentation on it as whoever is doing the credit will most likely look there to fill out that information. The band and management can't keep track of everything, so if you want to keep your name where it should go, be sure you keep everything documented properly.

Originally Posted by Sqye

Juts make SUUUUUUURE they know you're Scottish, and you'll be all set

My rampant lion tat lets people know who they're dealing with. (would have done the family coat of arms, but thought this was more recognizable)