CABLES CABLES CABLES

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by Sycamore

I'm late to this debate (which is also sort of dead), but I though I'd bring up two points which I don't feel have been covered.

-None (that I know of) of the super-high end boutique-y cable makers are actually making their own wire, as in, extruding it from molten metal. They're just ordering it from the few companies that actually manufacture wire and cable. They can package, braid, twist, solder, and fancy connector it to death, mark it up 200 times, find people to swear to it's superior soundstaging, but at the end of the day, it's the same bulk cable that pretty much any of us could get. Make your own cables.

-Secondly, The distance most cables span is but a very small fraction of the actual distance traveled by the signal- for instance, if you took all the inductors in you monitors' crossovers and unravelled them, you might end up with a couple _hundred_ feet of copper, varnish dipped wire. You really think that the few feet between your DA and monitors is going to audibly affect the sound, smear the mids, etc?

People _want_ to believe. Even if it means speaking to the inability of science to understand the intangible. Be it God or Audio Cables, I won't be fooled.

Yes, major companies are molding the cables for the high enders. But these are special runs that are not offered by the wire makers. One example is Kimber's AGSS pure silver cable. It uses a 10k v teflon dialectric with .999% pure silver. You can't get this wire off the shelf from Belden.

Distances do make up a factor, but experience using pure silver wire in 5" runs from the pcb to the fader of a console channel are audible.

As to inductors, yes they are a major source of hysteris distortion and losses due to the copper wind. This is why I use copper foil inductors. They have less resistance and no skin effects, hysteris distortion is much reduced. Then again, wire wound resistors from Mills sound much more open and clear than carbon sand resistors found in speaker crossovers.

Once one has treated these problems in loudspeaker crossovers, the wire is not hard to hear.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Sycamore

I'm late to this debate (which is also sort of dead), but I though I'd bring up two points which I don't feel have been covered.

-None (that I know of) of the super-high end boutique-y cable makers are actually making their own wire, as in, extruding it from molten metal. They're just ordering it from the few companies that actually manufacture wire and cable. They can package, braid, twist, solder, and fancy connector it to death, mark it up 200 times, find people to swear to it's superior soundstaging, but at the end of the day, it's the same bulk cable that pretty much any of us could get. Make your own cables.

-Secondly, The distance most cables span is but a very small fraction of the actual distance traveled by the signal- for instance, if you took all the inductors in you monitors' crossovers and unravelled them, you might end up with a couple _hundred_ feet of copper, varnish dipped wire. You really think that the few feet between your DA and monitors is going to audibly affect the sound, smear the mids, etc?

People _want_ to believe. Even if it means speaking to the inability of science to understand the intangible. Be it God or Audio Cables, I won't be fooled.

And yet, overconfident as you are, you dont seem to understand the tangible facts. Cardas and Acoustic Zen are the companies I use, and they would appear to make their cables from scratch as a fundamental element in the process.

http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=oem

http://www.acousticzen.com/white_paper_2.html

[firby]

I use monster cable on my nearfields. On my bigs I have 10 gauge cable from radio shack. I buy mic cables buy the box from some freak on ebay. 10 25 footers for like 15 bucks nice deal there. The rest of my stuff is connected using new and used Hosa TRS cables.

Oh and also I use a log of old crummy RCA cables that are inadvertently connected to a plethora of adapters.

Works ok.

Everynow and then I get a buzz on a channel and I just kick the big pile of cables that are in a small mountain on the back side of the racks in my place. A couple of kicks a month and that is all of the maintenance she needs.

My motto is always buy the cheapest cable you can get. Get a deal. And also always buy the cheapest, longest cable you can get for the application. You never know when you will need the extra twenty feet of cable.

[SiliconAudioLab]

Originally Posted by Sycamore

... The distance most cables span is but a very small fraction of the actual distance traveled by the signal- for instance, if you took all the inductors in you monitors' crossovers and unravelled them, you might end up with a couple _hundred_ feet of copper, varnish dipped wire. You really think that the few feet between your DA and monitors is going to audibly affect the sound, smear the mids, etc?

People _want_ to believe. Even if it means speaking to the inability of science to understand the intangible. Be it God or Audio Cables, I won't be fooled.

Well if I put a big fat capacitor accross the signal at that point it would. And that's only, like what, 1/4"?

[cdog]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

I would vote for the atomic bomb. It saved 2 million American casualties by preventing a Japanese invasion. The A bombs also prevented war with the Soviet Union, which could have cost millions of lives here and in Europe. Of course, without that space technology your doctor would be armed with not much more than a stethoscope.
And those airplanes have cost many lives with the rapid spread of contagious diseases over the last 50 years. At least we had some space technology to fight them with.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Wow Jim, you really are a *********.

[ImJohn]

Originally Posted by pan60

if i wanted to made a knob that dampened vibrations it would most certainly not be of wood. maybe i should machine out some lead knobs? any one want to try some?

If I was a robot, what you said would of seriously turned me on. (in fact, even though I'm not a robot, I'm feeling a bit 'frisky' anyway . . . )

[ImJohn]

Originally Posted by pan60

i want answers; )

The Lavry Engineering company forum has a lot of what you seek grasshopper :
http://www.lavryengineering.com/lavr...b1b2569bb07557

Go and fill you eager mind with things great and small. Seek not to judge but to understand and to exist joyously and harmoniously with that which is all!

(Guess which 1970's action / drama TV series I've been watching on DVD lately??? )

[pan60]

Originally Posted by ImJohn

The Lavry Engineering company forum has a lot of what you seek grasshopper :
http://www.lavryengineering.com/lavr...b1b2569bb07557

Go and fill you eager mind with things great and small. Seek not to judge but to understand and to exist joyously and harmoniously with that which is all!

(Guess which 1970's action / drama TV series I've been watching on DVD lately??? )

yes,, master. : )

[Dan Lavry]

Originally Posted by ImJohn

The Lavry Engineering company forum has a lot of what you seek grasshopper :
http://www.lavryengineering.com/lavr...b1b2569bb07557

Go and fill you eager mind with things great and small. Seek not to judge but to understand and to exist joyously and harmoniously with that which is all!

(Guess which 1970's action / drama TV series I've been watching on DVD lately??? )

Hi John,

Thanks for the comment. I placed a new paper on my forum (under the tutorial section of the forum). It is about analog distortions. This was part 1 (an introduction), and I try my best to make in as intuitive and comprehensible as possible, for "non math types".

The paper on distortion is not just about typing words. I have been investigating various distortion mechanisms in real hardware. People are invited to come in, put their hand on an AB switch (distortion vs, no distortion) and listen to all sorts of music, from solo cello to piano to vocal to jazz to....

I have been doing it for many months. It is slow moving (lack of time) and I wish could put more time into this project, but it is moving forwards. There is so much still to be learned.

Regards
Dan Lavry
www.lavryengineering.com

[Wil Penis]

Originally Posted by lucey

And yet, overconfident as you are, you dont seem to understand the tangible facts.

Oh, Lucey.

Please.

Don't make me do this.

*overconfident as you are* ???

*You don't seem to understand tangible facts* ???

If there is one thing you stink of, it's overconfidence.

If there is one thing someone like you living in his fantasy world cannot process, it's tangible facts.

Give me a break.

[C.Lambrechts]

I don't think this is going to go anywhere so .......


Sorry if I'm offending anyone by closing this .... but thanks for understanding.