Heads and Cabinets

[T. Biddy]

I'm recording metal/punk/hardcore and I'm looking to step my game up a bit and get a decent head and cabinet (I'm also not opposed to getting a combo). While the predominant thing to use are Mesa Boogie's I was wondering if anyone had some experience with any other perhaps lesser known big ballsy amps that can also have a smooth overdriven tone. I play through an Ibanez S-Classic so I don't necessarily want that traditional combination of sounds. (Though it is possible to convince me otherwise.)

Price range is around 2 grand.

Also...I would love to own a Soldano SLO, but that's a bit out of my price range. Any ideas?


T. Biddy

[jbuntz]

The soldano sound is great. I think it completely destorys the Dual Rec stuff. You can actually buy the preamp section of an SLO in the Soldano Supercharger pedal. One thing I've noticed about this pedal is that it does not to be in front of a marshall. Very harsh sounding. It does however work with fenders nicely. Check out amps with 5881/6L6 or my personal favorite, EL84 (especially class A) power sections. Right now I'm getting a good sound with the Soldano Supercharger into a silverface bassman 100 with adapters that allow it to accept EL84's (THD Yellow Jackets are the way to go on these). If you are in the studio, you can get by with just 1 pair and run the master volume hot if you want a spongy, fat sound. I love this sound. It's high gain, but not fizzy and muddy. The cool thing about those EL84's with adapters is there is no biasing required. That particular setup may be a bit spongy for punk though. You could stick with the stock 6L6's for a tighter sound. You'll also have a nice clean tone that is way better than a dual rec could think about doing.

Fender Bassman (used) - $400
Soldano SLO - $400 new, $300 used
Pair of yellow jackets with EL84's - $100?

[T. Biddy]

Wow...are those your prices or are those off of another website? Those seem super low...I'm really surprised.

[jbuntz]

Well, the Soldano normally goes for $400 new. I'm using a used bassman from the 70's. Those are generally around $400 (depending on condition and model). I'm kind of guessing on the yellow jackets. If you want more headroom, you could get another pair of yellow jackets.

[Jason Poulin]

I've had good experiences with the JCM 800 amps. Specially for the punk and emo stuff.

Metal is so-so although it depends what type of metal you're into.

The line6 Flextones are pretty damn decent for their price. Dude from Fear Factory alternates from those and the Mesa Rectifiers. You can't really tell when he's using one or not.

As far as metal goes... they have quite the set of balls.

Goodluck!

Jason

[el cochino]

One more vote for the JCM 800! I have one with 6550 valves in the power stage, which produce a more modern sound, but it still can go from rock to death metal and everything in between. Jason mentioned Dino's (Fear Factory) sound before. A big part of it is his tuning, which is H I believe. He used to play two modified JCM 800s, but moved to Line6 and Rectifiers when his Marshalls got stolen at a show.

[drundall]

The thing is with most fast punk bands the guitarists are pretty sloppy, that's why they gravitate toward Rectifiers. Their "white noise" kind of gain masks a lot of playing deficiencies. I record this genre a lot and am always amazed when an epic sounding gtr/amp combo from a metal session with a great player sounds like crap with the next day's punk band- same exact setup just changing the player! I've recorded some of the top players in modern punk and there's no tone like good playing. That said, I've also had some luck with the older 5150's.

Good luck...

[Jay Kahrs]

The Rectumfryer is a standard right now. I bought my head back in '96 and I can't stand it now but people love using it. I think in 3 years people will despise those amps. Maybe I'll be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

Marshall JCM800's can be godly if you get one that hasn't been hacked up and is running right. The JCM2000 DSL is pretty damn hip for a stock head. Way more modern sounding yet you can hear the old Marshall vibe in there.

Rivera makes a bunch of cool amps. I bought a Rake Reveb about a month ago and I love it to death but there ain't no way it's gonna do the modern metal thing. Better off looking into something like the Knucklehead for that.

VHT also makes killer stuff. You might blow almost the whole $2K on just a head or a combo but it's worht it IMHO. I have a Pitbull 50 1x12 combo that I'm waffeling on selling. I don't use it much since I got the Rake and it doesn't see a lot of studio action but it's a really cool amp AND I have a flight case for it. That's gotta come in handy someday.

You should also think about getting a couple of used/cheaper amps. Carvin X100B, Sovteks, Lab Series, PV Classics & 5150 (another amp I can't stand playing through but lost of people like), etc. and a couple of pedals. That's one way to get a lot of sounds for $2K as opposed to 1-3 great ones for the same amount of bread.

[T. Biddy]

Ya know...the thing about Marshall...I dunno. I know a lot of people swear by them, but they just have such a distinct sound...I don't know if I want that "Marshall" sound or not. I'm sorta going for a Helmet ("Betty" album tone). maintains clarity on stop-start riffs and rings well on suspended chords. I'm familiar with the older Marshalls, has anyone heard the new ones?

I also might get shot for saying this, but I remember back in the day playing through a Crate Blue Voodoo stack and really liking the tone I could get.

I'm also wondering if I'm too caught up in the head/cabinet thing. I'm just wondering is there something that I can add to my current crappy set-up (Peavey 212 combo amp) to give me the good gain distortion I'm looking for? Like a pre-amp or something?

JBuntz mentioned the Soldano pre-amp...I think you're talking about the Supercharger GTO becuse an SLO head is almost 3 grand last I checked...

Anyway...decent preamps or pedals? Or just start over again?

[Screws]

I'm in the middle of doing a bunch of tracks with Dual Rectifier and TSL2000. I think I like the sounds I'm getting out of the Marshall a lot more than what I'm hearing out of the Boogie. But the guy using the Boogie doesn't know any of the cool finesse stuff you can do with the rear switches, so I don't know if he is able to get all that is possible out of it.

[sysexguy]

You're in Brooklyn!!!!!! Do you know how lucky you are??????

RUN! to www.ultrasoundrehearsal.com make an appointment with Ken or Gene....they have every cool amp on the planet

and zero f%^&ing love doll modeling bullshit tutt flex nadda

My choice is a Cornford but it now appears that there are a whole bunch of others making 2-8 watt full size studio class A amps (BadCAt, Carr, /13, Peters, Savage etc.) The jokers with tatoos all endorse Mesas, Marshalls and love dolls but on the albums use a finer breed (usually belonging to the producer)

My $.02

Andy

[Jay Kahrs]

Dude.

Back in the day...

Page Hamilton used Harry Kolbe modded Marshalls. The cabs I think were also Harry's and were loaded with high-wattage EV speakers. Even at full bore there was like .001% speaker distortion. Big heavy strings, like .11 or .12 IIRC he was a jazz player. Very low output pickups too. All the gain was on the front end of the amp. All preamp fizz. Might've been some chorus on there too, he did a pretty decent size fridge with him.

But don't forget the hands. The biggest part of the sound.

Sticking pedals in front of the amp may work really well for ya, but I doubt it's gonna happen with a solid state PV. Get at least a 1x12 cab with a JBL or some other stupidly high wattage, won't break up at all unless an A-bomb goes off speaker and a 50 to 100 watt tube head with a GREAT clean sound. PV Classic, old Fender Bandmasters are great, Marshall Majors, Sound City etc. are all great and $500 or less. Then get the Soldano pedal and a few others to see what you like or for variety and you'll be in damn fine shpe.

[stakeoutstudios]

I've got a Mesa Dual Rectifier, Peavey 5150, and Marshall JCM 2000.

The Peavey gets a hell of a lot of use, pretty much equal to the Mesa! Highly recommended. Very different sound to the Mesa however, it's great to have both!

The Marshall, I'm not a fan of and it's used very rarely. Punk people seem to like it.

For a recent Album I had a Vox AC30 in. What beautiful amp. We ran the FX send out from the Dual Rectifier into the AC30 for some really great distorted tones. Hardly any EQ was needed after recording, which is very unusual for me!

Running the Mesa through the Vox is a good option for softer rock / pop, as the mesa no longer has the hard-edge it does on it's own. It is however the best clean / semi distorted tone I've ever heard

[covert]

On the lower cost end, the JCM 900 marshals can be made to sound pretty damn good by removing the diode bridge from the high gain channel. Why Marshall ever thought they needed diode clipping built in mystifies me.

On the other end I see quite a few Bogner Uberschalls out there.

The Rectos can sound quite good, but are usually driven to the point where they do the white noise thing Jay refers to. I share his hatred of the 5150, but they do that over the top thing pretty well. I'll also second his comments on Rivera stuff. If I could have brought myself to pay the couple of grand for the Knucklehead.....

The old Peavey Triumph tube amps can be had pretty cheap, and their really high gain channel was up in the complete destruction range as well. Another amp I didn't like much for my own use.

Older Mesas, the Mark II and III series are really good sounding, but may not quite get what you're looking for. They do seem to have more in the low end than other amps.

[T. Biddy]

I also use .12-.52 gauge strings, I also downtune to drop-c and drop-Db tunings. I guess just about everyone who plays guitar has a hero, and Page Hamilton is mine. Perhaps an unconventional choice, but my style of playing is greatly influenced by his.

My Peavey actually IS a tube amp, however it's only got 6L6s in it. I might have said the wrong model...but I'm pretty sure that's the right model.

Yeah, I live in Brooklyn...however...I can't afford to go to a studio and record...this is why I'm doing all the recording at home. I've dropped a lot of money and wasted a lot of time in studios and on demos to have no product that I'm really satisfied with. I don't have a full band, just me and my instruments (guitar, bass, viola, my voice). I'm doing this sorta guerilla demo thing. I'm trying to do the one man band (ala Trent Reznor and Dave Grohl's first Foo Fighters album) thing then get a full band after the album's done.

Something to use as sort of a recruitment tool, and maybe eventually pass on to an indie label (MAYBE).

[T. Biddy]

I checked out some of those amp companies BadCat, Peters, Savage...etc...thanx for those helpful hints. Some of them also had some real tube amp pedals that I'm also thinking about trying...

Opened my eyes to some stuff I've never heard of before. I feel like I'm growing a little recording "peach fuzz" now.

[Jay Kahrs]

Ultrasound is a rehersal studio/guitar amp shop. Call 'em and make an appointment.

Try some pedals with your amp though I think something like the V-Twin or SLO is gonna get you a lot closer to where you wanna be then the Bad Cat/Matchless/old school vibe. But I'm serious about keeping the power section and speakers clean. Record at lower volumes.

[Exsanguis]

Ultrasound is fantastic. I've rehearsed there with tons of different bands, and also spent several hours there with a few other guitarists, testing out the various awesome amps before going out and buying one. A great resource.

[Almost Human]

Mesa Rectifier's are amazing sounding amps if you EQ the things right. I have a '94 Mesa Dual Rectifier. It's a "Blackface" model, as in the custom one with the reverse color scheme of a black face plate and chrome chassis. I have it equipped with standard Sovtek 6L6 power tubes and a set of high gain JJ ECC83's, which makes the clean channel better also. It's a great sounding amp. I think too many people just use extreme settings on the amp, particularly gain and bass. I run EMG 81 equipped guitars into it, and I usually keep the bass around 11 o'clock and the gain around 1 o'clock.

Marshall JCM 800's are awesome too. I do like the sond you can get out of them. In reference to Dino, formerly of Fear Factory...his JCM 800's were modded by Bob Bradshaw (for extra gain) at Custom Audio Electronics and ran into Marshall 1960BV 4X12 Cabs.

[C/G]

Hiwatt DR504 50 watt head. Used about $800 ish depending on year, and whether it is a 2 or 4 input model. Hiwatt cabinets are worth a shitload now. $800 and up depending if they have Fanes in there or not. 100 watt Fender Bassman heads sound bloody awesome and are cheap, around $600 or so for a nice one. My buddy uses a 100 watt bassman and a Fender custom shop 4 x 12 with vintage 30's and I think it sounds amazing. Nice warm overdrive.

[enharmonic]

I'm in the minority of folks who really can't F'N stand the dual rectifier's. The Trem-o-verb's were nice...early ones were downright special...but the rest of them can sod off.

If I had 2k, and I was looking for a sweet amp that can cover that ground nicely (big, gnarly gain tones), I'd go for a used Budda Superdrive 30 without a second thought. Will kick the arse of many amps...even amps twice the price. I like them better in the studio than live though, because it's tough to balance the rhythm/lead volumes on that amp...not a problem in the studio

[mtstudios@charter]

From what I've recorded Michael Moron does the best Mods on Marshalls. He favors the JCM 800's with the side by side transfomers.
A 3 month broken in Marshall straight cab with Green Backs won't hurt. Green Backs start sounding creamy after about 3 months. Bogner also makes great stuff.
I usually split a gtr signal off into three different amps using the Little Labs splitter box, getting my lows my mids and highs out of each (Possibly Bogner/Marshall/Roland 120/. 1 SM57 on each. Molt them to one in the end.

www.bluethumbproductions.com

[Curtis Franklin]

for the classic rock sound JCM 800's are the way to go.

if you dig on Poison the Well, one of their guys uses an orange cab, the other uses the jcm800. this combo is cool and adds alot to their tone.

for more metalcore stuff i use randall stuff. send me an email pumadrum@gmail.com

if you are interested cause my work is a dealer.

[maskedman72]

the peavey jsx (joe satraini signature) ****ing crushes for chugga style hardcore/metal

[retropete]

Another plug for Ultrasound. Bought my Bogner Shiva after playing through one at rehearsal there. Think it's about 20 to 30 an hour, depending on the room. Good investment to just go there for an hour and play with some great amps before buying.

That said, for harder style of rock, I use a Soldano X88R through a VHT 50/50.

Had the Soldano Supercharger pedal and sold it. Didn't like it, too fizzy, not enough "hair". Bought a modified Boss Metal Zone which was modified to emulate a Bogner/Diezel. Don't know if it does exactly that, but it has awesome "in-your-face-ness". This guy modifies them by taking out all the cheap capacitors and replacing them with audiophile level components. Check out http://www.indyguitarist.com/mods.htm -- there are sound clips. Robert Keeley also modifies pedals so that they don't suck tone.

Satisfied my gearlust for an Ecstasy for awhile! (Let's see, 3 thousand dollars vs. 80... hmmm, why not try it.)