How many instances of Waves L2 do you use?

[Lonnie]

Hi there,
i am from Germany, so don't expect good english, thanx!

I was just wondering why the pro-cd's sound so loud and although less distorted.
I made a test with the waves L2 and a short mix of mine, it's just not possible to get such loud mixes with only one instance of a L2 or whatever!!!

1. So, my questions are... do the pros use several instances of Waves L2 (or other plugs) in a chain or do they bounce the mix several times thru an L2?

2. Is there a special hardware-mastering-limiter (other than the L2 hardware) that is able to do such loud mixes in just one step, what do the masters of mastering use for loudness?

3. Doesn't it matter to use 3-5 instances of L2 in a chain, do you really hear a significant loss of quality?




Thank you!

[lovetomix]

my advice----dont **** with the L2----ESPECIALLY multiple instances ---as far is getting things loud, its a battle where you cant win with just a protools system. u can try using an out board compressor such as an api 2500 and running back through a converter with a limit function on it, compress to taste and crank the output till the point right b4 it clips..........if you really want you can try putting an L2 on the printback but dont atten more than 2 db or it will get very nasty...........

just one way of doing it tho............

[Lynn Fuston]

Either 0 or 1.

[dach]

gosh darnit.... common sense kicked in and posted before the trolls.

I clicked on this thread with butterflies in my stomach... like one of those things you just KNOW is going to be good....

[rwhitney]

Two instances can work, using more on the first and less on the second. Otherwise I agree with the others, except I don't know how running through an external limiter will help with the volume more than plug-ins. Maybe because it sounds better? I do that sometimes with an STC-8, and it helps, but I'm still not able to do what the real mastering folks do--reaqlly high levels while only sounding slightly bad rather than total crap.

But try 2 instances. It sometimes works pretty well. maybe -2dB on the first, -1dB on the second. then compare with -3 dB on just one. I've liked using two in that case on a couple of J-pop demos. (NOT serious masters!)

[thenoiseflower]

Originally Posted by Lynn Fuston

Either 0 or 1.

[contempo]

also 0 or 1

i'll let the mastering engineer make it louder if it needs to be loud. the good ones cna get it louder & cleaner then I'd ever be able to.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by Lonnie

I was just wondering why the pro-cd's sound so loud and although less distorted.

because they are very good at using their craft for evil. this is why they get paid so well by the record companies, which are also evil, in case you had any doubts.

ahhhh evil, you're so good to me.


gregoire
del
ubk
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[mwagener]

NONE!!!

[Stoneroses6300]

1,000

[Fletcher]

>0!!

[bobdemaa]

I used 1 on the master fader for a long time on my Pro Tools master. Now I use 0 and am adamantly opposed to ever using it again. I just got to a point of wondering why am I constantly destroying the dynamics of my mixes? To sound like it's coming from the Radio? So it sounds better in my civic when I'm doing 80 on the highway? To sound like crappy ass pop CD's from the last 5 years which I hate the way they sound anyway?well, those reasons were not enough any longer.

Death to the loudness wars!

[Stoneroses6300]

Originally Posted by bobdemaa

I used 1 on the master fader for a long time on my Pro Tools master. Now I use 0 and am adamantly opposed to ever using it again. I just got to a point of wondering why am I constantly destroying the dynamics of my mixes? To sound like it's coming from the Radio? So it sounds better in my civic when I'm doing 80 on the highway? To sound like crappy ass pop CD's from the last 5 years which I hate the way they sound anyway?well, those reasons were not enough any longer.

Death to the loudness wars!

Music is all about how it sounds in a crappy car...That how I grew up into loving music. Not by listening to gay clean sounding songs on a 50,000 dollar speaker system...Thats for audiophiles like you to love...

[rwhitney]

Originally Posted by Stoneroses6300

Music is all about how it sounds in a crappy car...That how I grew up into loving music. Not by listening to gay clean sounding songs on a 50,000 dollar speaker system...Thats for audiophiles like you to love...

Finally, somebody from the hood!!

[dsstudio]

I tried everything from API2500, SSL G, L3, etc...then I finally find a way,
A careful setting of MD3 in my TC6000 will do. Of course the song will not sound as intended but it's really loud and hi energy. Play around with Attack, release in multiband, with threshold about 10 up to 15, hi ratio on Hi and Low band
Sonny

[Lonnie]

To sound like it's coming from the Radio? So it sounds better in my civic when I'm doing 80 on the highway? To sound like crappy ass pop CD's from the last 5 years which I hate the way they sound anyway?

That's the point!

Well mastered songs sound very loud and although very HI-FI. I agree that, when the song is playing on the radio, it sounds really crappy and distorted, because it's compressed again by the multibandcompressor from the radiostation. But when i hear commercial CD's on my Dynaudio speakers, they sound loud, clear and awesome! And that's what i don't understand because the level-meter of my soundcard sticks on the top most of the time, but it still sounds dynamic and detailed.

I tried every plugin combination on my stereo-bus with multiband-dynamics like C4 and limiters like L2 and even several instances of them, but i still don't get the same sounding results.

What the heck do those mastering-pros use?

I studied some equipment lists from several pro mastering studios, they use tools i never heard of like sadie, sonic solutions... i don't know exactly what those tools do, maybe pq-editing and denoising or something.

Probably they use devices like the DBX-Quantum or the GML 2030 or maybe it's just a simple trick they don't want to share, like wizards.

But there are so many mastering engineers scattered over the globe, how do they all know this particular device or that special trick? Maybe they learn from each other, and that's why i am posting here!



Please share your tricks...!

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by Lonnie

That's the point!

Well mastered songs sound very loud and although very HI-FI. I agree that, when the song is playing on the radio, it sounds really crappy and distorted, because it's compressed again by the multibandcompressor from the radiostation. But when i hear commercial CD's on my Dynaudio speakers, they sound loud, clear and awesome! And that's what i don't understand because the level-meter of my soundcard sticks on the top most of the time, but it still sounds dynamic and detailed.

I tried every plugin combination on my stereo-bus with multiband-dynamics like C4 and limiters like L2 and even several instances of them, but i still don't get the same sounding results.

What the heck do those mastering-pros use?

I studied some equipment lists from several pro mastering studios, they use tools i never heard of like sadie, sonic solutions... i don't know exactly what those tools do, maybe pq-editing and denoising or something.

Probably they use devices like the DBX-Quantum or the GML 2030 or maybe it's just a simple trick they don't want to share, like wizards.

But there are so many mastering engineers scattered over the globe, how do they all know this particular device or that special trick? Maybe they learn from each other, and that's why i am posting here!



Please share your tricks...!

Hi Lonnie. Don't take this the wrong way but a few things for you.

Maybe you would be better of posting this on the mastering forum huh?



Also don't be too surprised that folks don't want to "share their tricks" because this is how they make thier living. Face it, the guys in the mastering houses that get things to sound this way have spent YEARS learning these "tricks" and these same tricks are how they pay their bills. Why should they give that away?

More importantly do you really expect it to be a paint by numbers thing in the first place? Use red here then blue there and there you have it, the Mona Lisa. Obviously it is much harder to make this happen then any one trick that someone can give you.

My advice is 1) pay someone who has the tricks already, it is not as expensive as you might think and having the extra ears on the project almost always helps or 2) it sounds like you are interested so go get an intern gig at a local mastering house and learn as much as you can.

Good luck.

[robot gigante]

>0

I don't think that mastering engineers are all that shy about sharing tricks.

But to attempt to do what they do without the tools, monitoring and most importantly the experience that they have and you are bound to come up short.

In fact I will say that there are very few "tricks" at all.

So don't worry about it- send your mixes to be mastered by someone whose past work you like, bottom line.

[lemix]

Originally Posted by Lonnie

But there are so many mastering engineers scattered over the globe, how do they all know this particular device or that special trick? Maybe they learn from each other, and that's why i am posting here!

Lonnie,
There isn't "one particular device"
There are however, different methods and varying chains of equipment/processes, that all add up to raise average levels.
And..if you follow some mastering forums..these are openly and widely discussed..

best of luck,

[u b k]

Originally Posted by Lonnie

And that's what i don't understand because the level-meter of my soundcard sticks on the top most of the time, but it still sounds dynamic and detailed.

based on your description above, i think i can safely conclude that you have very different ideas of what 'dynamic and detailed' sounds like than i do.

eagles 'hotel california', peter gabriel's 'rhythm of the heat'... those are dynamic, detailed recordings to my ears. green day, not so much.

to each his own!


gregoire
del
ubk
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