DAW Patchbay - How'd you do it?

[kittonian]

I've been thinking of a few ways to solve a seemingly huge problem in today's studios. With the ability to integrate all your outboard gear into a mix while having it fully delay compensated (PT|HD, Nuendo, Cubase, etc.) but without having a console around, it seems that a DAW patchbay of some sort is in order.

I've got a bunch of ideas (some of which should probably get some R&D time when I've got a sec), but I'm just wondering if any of you out there in GS land are working this way right now (i.e. hooking all your A/D and D/A conversion, pres, outboard effects/comps/etc. to a patchbay and using something like standard TT cables to get it all working for both recording and mixing, so you never have to touch the rear of the gear itself no matter what you need).

On top of that, have any of you successfully figured out how to mult in this scenario (i.e. you've got one signal going through a compressor and then you want that same signal to go through the same compressor and an eq - this is a stupid example but you get my drift).

And on top of that, are you only doing it in the analog domain or are you mixing analog and digital gear in your outboard configuration (p.s. I already know about Switchcraft's new toy but after a long discussion with their tech staff it was determined that the piece is way more suited to live situation rather than studio use).

Here's a few ideas I've had:

1. Make a patchbay where you've got DSUB connectors on the rear and TT connections on the front. Wire it all with 110ohm as per the AES standard (so you can use both analog and digital connections). Plug-in and go. - btw, this is exactly what switchcraft just released but they have greatly limited the channel count)

2. Make a patchbay with XLR connections on the rear and TT connections on the front - could possibly get too large too fast and only works in analog (plus there's no multing abilities)

What do you do?

[djbrough]

I haven't tried it myself, but I think you should do a google search or a gearslutz search on normalized patchbays. It's my understanding that using a normalized patchbay allows you to use your outboard gear as a plugin in your DAW. I would imagine that Nuendo would be great for this with its use of external effects.

[Fajita]

don't really need the patchbay. plug the d-sub xlr's into the back of the outboard. Name everything in the I/O setup. That's how I did it with my ProTools.

[True North]

Originally Posted by kittonian

I've been thinking of a few ways to solve a seemingly huge problem in today's studios. With the ability to integrate all your outboard gear into a mix while having it fully delay compensated (PT|HD, Nuendo, Cubase, etc.) but without having a console around, it seems that a DAW patchbay of some sort is in order.

I've got a bunch of ideas (some of which should probably get some R&D time when I've got a sec), but I'm just wondering if any of you out there in GS land are working this way right now (i.e. hooking all your A/D and D/A conversion, pres, outboard effects/comps/etc. to a patchbay and using something like standard TT cables to get it all working for both recording and mixing, so you never have to touch the rear of the gear itself no matter what you need).

On top of that, have any of you successfully figured out how to mult in this scenario (i.e. you've got one signal going through a compressor and then you want that same signal to go through the same compressor and an eq - this is a stupid example but you get my drift).

And on top of that, are you only doing it in the analog domain or are you mixing analog and digital gear in your outboard configuration

I used to have 2 x 96 pt tt/bantamn patchbays hooked up to my mic pres, PT-LE (no ADC )and outboard gear. I just moved to Cubase, new convertors and new gear so i am in the process of reconfiguring. As far as rear patchbay connectors go, a 90 pin EDAC/ELCO connection is pretty common in many studios. From there you will need to get someone to build you a harness which will probably run you about $2500 to $3000 per 96 pt bay.

I use a local guy to do my stuff but have rec'd quotes from this guy; www.icwiring.com - his pricing and quality seem to be inline. There is another company which many on this site seem to use but I can't remember the name off hand. The idea is really not that different than an all Analog set up as you will be connecting to the analog connections of your convertor. Anyway, I hope that helps, it can and is done all the time, good luck.

P.S. i reccomend waiting for used deals on patchbays, you can generally get a bay with ELCO/EDAC connections for $200 to $400 - my tech guy is always amazed at the deals I find.

[Mike H]

I have a pair of 96TT patchbays. All the DAC's and ADC's are connected to the patchbays, where I patch the tracks/stems to outboard processing. All the outboard gear Ins and Outs are connected to the patchbays, as well as the Folcrom Inputs.The patchbays are half-normalled, so I can easily mult to effects, either before or after outboard processing.

I bring the Folcrom stereo mix Outs back to the patchbay, where I can patch in gear for mix processing.

All connections are XLR. The XLR snakes are all soldered at the patchbays.

I also have a separate 1U digital patchbay with AES/EBU patch cables. Here I have:
-In from DAW
-In from HEDD
-In from Lavry ADC pair on the patchbay
-Out to DAW
-Out to HEDD
-Out to Lavry DAC pair on the patchbay.

It really works pretty nicely. I have a standard setup I usually start with, and then experiment from there for each song.

Problems?
(1) As stated elsewhere, I can't pan effects right now because my summing units (pair of Folcroms) don't provide panning. I'm looking at other summers/mixers.
(2) Obviously no recall, so I have a simple Excel spreadsheet showing connections for each song. Yes, a pain.
(3) It would be nice if the patching were digitally controlled and not manual. But with currently available digital routers (i.e., Z-sys) it would take tons of rack space to provide the same number of points as my simple (and so far reliable) Switchcraft patchbays.

I can email you an Excel spreadsheet showing how gear is arranged on the patchbays, if that would be helpful. I fiddled with this quite a bit, to get it where I like it. Of course, it is easy to change at any time.

[octatonic]

I have 4 x 96 way TT patchbays in my studio.
All the I/O to Protools is normalled to some of the outboard pre's, compressors eq's and the like.
All the synths need to be manually patched in to record them- but I can monitor them via a line mixer (both the PT outputs and synth submixer are connected to the monitor controller, an SPL MTC2381).

The rest of the outboard is connected vertically in the 4th paychbay and not normalled- things like guitar pedals, that I have on slide out trays or rackmounted, are there also.
All the synths that have input or vocoders are there also- so I can take the output of a PT track and put it into a vocoder, then a pedal, then bring it back into a pre thn I can easily.
It ways a pain to install (took about 2 weeks all up) but much happier it is there.

JR

[kittonian]

Mike H & Richmond James, sounds like you guys are doing it the way I had envisioned, just not as extravagant. Curious thought, did you purchase DSUB-TT cabling/snakes to plug-in your converters (as well as XLR-TT cables for the outboard gear) to the rear of the patchbay?

To the others who responded, thank you for your comments and your time. My apologies if I wasn't clear in my original post but I'm aware of "how to make this happen" I am just trying to figure out if a new product that I've been working on in my head over these last few years would in fact be something that everyone would love and use everyday (this seems to be the case).

[Mike H]

I can't really comment, Joshua, since I'm not sure what extra capabilities your product would provide. I did all the soldering at the back of the patchbays myself, to save $. There are guys who would have done it for me, and I'm sure they would have been much faster. But, I decided to do it myself.

Yes, I bought the cable and snakes. But since I have gear in three different racks at diferent locations in the room, I bought the cables at lengths to fit my situation. I think that made the most sense for me.

[octatonic]

Hi Joshua,

My patchbays are switchcraft's so no DSUB - just bare terminals (but only cost 200 euro for all 4... score)
My PT interfaces have XLR and Jacks so no DSUB there either.
I just purchased about 100ft of multicore cable and a whole heap of neutrik connectors and got busy soldering.

Again, it took a fair while to do- but it is a useful skill to have and really not that hard.

Can you tell me what this product is? PM me if you want.

[Dan]

Hi Joshua,
I also set up a 4x96 patchbay, with DL connectors on the back, and then built multicore break out cables to go to the various racks. I have to say, after going through all the time and expense of doing that, I would have been better off just buying more interfaces, and wiring directly. At the time, I thought I wanted all the expandability, and flexibility brought by a patchbay. (i.e.. eq then compressor, or vice versa) What I found is that the speed, and improved signal path of having gear discretely wired outweighs the benefits of a patchbay. (YMMV) Anyhow, if you're really going to do a patchbay right, you end up spending as much money as more interfaces. I vote for using the PT system as a patchbay. If not, I have a $9k patchbay I'll give you a great deal on. Dan

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by Dan

Hi Joshua,
I also set up a 4x96 patchbay, with DL connectors on the back, and then built multicore break out cables to go to the various racks. I have to say, after going through all the time and expense of doing that, I would have been better off just buying more interfaces, and wiring directly. At the time, I thought I wanted all the expandability, and flexibility brought by a patchbay. (i.e.. eq then compressor, or vice versa) What I found is that the speed, and improved signal path of having gear discretely wired outweighs the benefits of a patchbay. (YMMV) Anyhow, if you're really going to do a patchbay right, you end up spending as much money as more interfaces. I vote for using the PT system as a patchbay. If not, I have a $9k patchbay I'll give you a great deal on. Dan

Dan,
You are talking about the D-Command?

How did you replace 4x96 points? That doesn't even come close, does it?

I have two 96TT patchbays, and I am using all points. So, that's 48 Ins and 48 Outs. I could use a D-Command and keep the patchbays and put the most commonly used processors on the D-Command. That would simplify my complex patchbay patching.

Could you please give a little more info?
Thanks!

[David Kulka]

Originally Posted by Fajita

don't really need the patchbay. plug the d-sub xlr's into the back of the outboard. Name everything in the I/O setup. That's how I did it with my ProTools.

Originally Posted by Dan

...I vote for using the PT system as a patchbay...

It depends on the gear and how it's all being used, but the drawback to doing it this way is that patches between analog gear end up going through two extra converters. For example, You wouldn't want to send the output of a 1073 mic pre into Protools or a DAW, digitize it, undigitize it, and then send it back out to an LA2A.

[HiRaX]

Def take a look at the Audio Accesories 96 PT Quick Switch Patchbay.
Give Chris at Redco a call (www.redco.com)
They are great bays that have db25 connectors on the back and normaling and grounding is configued by jumpers you can adjust yourself.