What mic pre for a royer 121????????????????
#31
19th August 2006
Old 19th August 2006
  #31
Lives for gear
 

The funny thing about all this Drew, is that IIRC - Wittman's as much if not more of an API fan

And for the first time in my life I'm going to use this word...you guys SLAY me

PS, I agree with you on the pimping thing - it's pretty obvious when someone is whoring.....it's not like your saying you preffer the Peluso over a U47 (like some other people around here

I have to admit though, I'm pretty much a monogamist when it comes to pre's.
#32
21st August 2006
Old 21st August 2006
  #32
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GearHunter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kats View Post
The funny thing about all this Drew, is that IIRC - Wittman's as much if not more of an API fan

And for the first time in my life I'm going to use this word...you guys SLAY me

PS, I agree with you on the pimping thing - it's pretty obvious when someone is whoring.....it's not like your saying you preffer the Peluso over a U47 (like some other people around here

I have to admit though, I'm pretty much a monogamist when it comes to pre's.
I can get by with API, a couple Neve-type or British type, and yeah, that's about it. Nice to have a good tube-pre on the roster, but I can live--and actually DO live---without it.
fuzzface777
Thread Starter
#33
21st August 2006
Old 21st August 2006
  #33
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fuzzface777's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
I just got my royer 121 today and eventhough it is only going through the mbox2's preamp, like the royer 121 said, I noticed a huge difference! MAinly the Clarity I was searching for! THe Sen 906 and the the sm 57 are nice, the 906 more mid sounding, the sm57 more highs, but both jumble the frequencies they are reproducing while not having a full spectrum response. THe Royer 121, really " heard" the speaker exactly as I hear it live! SHWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!
#34
21st August 2006
Old 21st August 2006
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Wrench View Post
You won’t believe me BUT…
you REALLY have to try the Langevin DVC with that Royer 121.

Every time I say this, people don’t get hip to it, but it’s a DEADLY combo with that Royer… EXPECIALLY with those problem GIRL voices!!!

I think most people don't take me serious on this because the DVC is 'affordable', but it sounds GREAT. And I've got a considerable pile of pre's and such to compare it with...
Oh yeah...I can concure with this.

I loved that combo...I really liked what that unit's hi shelf boost did to the Royer.
If it werent a 2U, I would have keeped it just for that purpose.


Regards,
David
#35
21st August 2006
Old 21st August 2006
  #35
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tubejay's Avatar
 

UA 610 is a good combo in my opinion. I've also enjoyed it with my API's.
#36
23rd August 2006
Old 23rd August 2006
  #36
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Jory's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzface777 View Post
I just ordered my royer 121 tonight. What mic pre do you royer 121 owners find that you end up going to over and over again?
Millennia HV-3D

I do plan on getting the new AEA TRP, though.
#37
23rd August 2006
Old 23rd August 2006
  #37
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superburtm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new View Post
Much less top end. At times a 57 can be a little fizzy on a guitar track, a R121 is never fizzy at all. I think that many folks grew up hearing music with 57s on guitar (I know I did) and that kind of became the recorded guitar sound.

An R121 is much smoother but not muddy. Some guys just don't get it because it doesn't sound like the radio tracks that they are used to. There is an argument to be made that the R121 is more real than the 57 for what that is worth.

The key that I learned from Michael W. here at GS is to not think of placing a ribbon in the same places that you would a standard condenser or dynamic. I get much better results with my R121 when I place it smack in the middle of the cone. Also an R121 will take EQ much better than a 57 so you can dial back in the high end if you are missing it on the track.

All in all I still love the 57 tracks but a lean towards the R121 more often than not now. For some reason I have yet to try a combination of both but I hear that is the ticket. I can imagine it would be, the meat of the R121 and the top of the 57 seem like they would work very well together.

Many times I put a 57 smack dab in the middle of the cone as well...as I do with an sm7 , 414 or 421..I like smack dab in the middle..right on the button..
But I'd love to try a Royer!
#38
23rd August 2006
Old 23rd August 2006
  #38
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GearHunter's Avatar
 

While I have never tried the middle-of-the-cone placement (believing it to be dead-zone where there's little vibration) I find that for rythm guitars, using a 57 (or SM7) and 121 together is great. For leads, I'll get away with just the 121 more often.

So...what's this middle-of-cone thing? I've mic'd the back of the speaker before, but the middle? Does anything good come from there?

Never done that in over 20 years of getting great guitar-sounds.
fuzzface777
Thread Starter
#39
23rd August 2006
Old 23rd August 2006
  #39
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Thread Starter
Are you serious Drew? Ask Fletcher who told me personally on a phone call that he sometimes likes facing the mic directly into the cone, slightly off to the side.....
#40
23rd August 2006
Old 23rd August 2006
  #40
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e-cue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzface777 View Post
anything else?
I really liked the Blue Pacifica with it. Great detail on the low end and punch on the mid range IMO. Hopefully you'll be able to put ears on some of the pre's you listed.

What do you currently own? Are you planning on a 2nd mic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post
yes, this is why all those Beatles records and Dark Side Of The Moon and Crime Of The Century all sucked.

...

you need ONE good mic pre type, in as many channels as you need to record at once.

if I am recording on an API desk, the Royers sound great through it.
if I am recording on a Neve the Royers sound great through it.

There's no such thing as a preamp that "goes with" something whether it's a mic or a genre or an instrument.
GOOD mic pres "go with" good mics on good instruments.
Slow your roll playboy. Of course those records didn't suck. Are you seriously suggesting you'd only want to use the tools available at that time? To quote Dave Chapelle "Fine, moe monkey pussy for meee".

Your point about one good pre for everything is well taken, but especially with ribbon mics, I need certain things to meet certain criteria to get the best out of them. For example, I love the old Gates, Collins, Telefunken and RCA mic pre's for certain things. But they would almost all frustrate me if I was trying to get my gain structure right with a non-powered ribbon mic like the Royer 121 (which has pretty damn good gain compared to some others). It doesn't mean that those pre's suck- they just aren't right for the job at hand, to me. I also like pre's with higher slew rates, like the Audio Upgrades pre, on things like OH's so I can capture the attack and sustain of the cymbal with excellent detail, where as something like an upright bass I tend to dig the way other pre's with slower (and I'm just focusing on one element) slew rates can help reenforce the low end big-round-warm-insert buzzword-jenny craig low end. I also seem to like slow slew rate stuff on vocals that are over sibilant to handle esses. Another personal example is, I like the way Neve 3405's (my pref) and 1272's stack on distorted guitar tracks, but hate the low mid build up I get when doubling vocals. There's also benefits to impedance matching/mismatching. Would any of those pre's sound great in any given situation? Probably- but not the best in all of them.

It should also be mentioned that mic's DO affect the way mic pre's sound. It's a load in the signal path. I'm not saying it's going to stop the Beatles, or Pink Floyd, or maybe even Cindi Lauper from making a sucessful record, but if this is a site dedicated to talking about gear, it should be mentioned how gear reacts with other gear.

Then again, I was never a huge fan of Supertramp or their recordings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHunter View Post
While I have never tried the middle-of-the-cone placement (believing it to be dead-zone where there's little vibration) I find that for rythm guitars, using a 57 (or SM7) and 121 together is great. For leads, I'll get away with just the 121 more often.

So...what's this middle-of-cone thing? I've mic'd the back of the speaker before, but the middle? Does anything good come from there?

Never done that in over 20 years of getting great guitar-sounds.
Anytime I have hit the cone dead on, it's been several feet back from the speaker, so it's picking more stuff up.

I usually stick the SM57 where the cone meets the dome for the top end (especially bees-in-a-tin-can Marshall distortion) fizz and the 122 (or other ribbon) toward the edge for the low end balls (especially Dumble or Dual Rect distortion). If the distortion is still taking my head off, moving the ribbon off axis to cut back on the high frequencies seems to work best. I tend to keep the ribbon as close to the speaker as I need the benefit of the low end, almost sacrifice-free proximity effect. If I need a much bigger sound for a lead, or something that I want to build around, I do that dual SM57 thing on the back of the amp I've blabbed about for years here.

...and then there's the IBP



To me, Something this thread really highlights is how much GS has changed over the years. To me, GS used to focus on gear and simply assume you had the slight idea of what the hell you were doing. To me, this was a place to focus more on tools, and less on technique- something plenty of other forums already covered. To me, I think records made before I was born are still awesome, mostly in terms of songwriting. To me, I think any great engineer could make a great record on less than great gear. To me, it was the reason I used to go on posting vacations and stick to the chatroom. To me, I often think the current posters don't give a fück.
#41
23rd August 2006
Old 23rd August 2006
  #41
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studjo's Avatar
Nice one Cue!
#42
23rd August 2006
Old 23rd August 2006
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e-cue View Post
To me, Something this thread really highlights is how much GS has changed over the years. To me, GS used to focus on gear and simply assume you had the slight idea of what the hell you were doing. To me, this was a place to focus more on tools, and less on technique- something plenty of other forums already covered. To me, I think records made before I was born are still awesome, mostly in terms of songwriting. To me, I think any great engineer could make a great record on less than great gear. To me, it was the reason I used to go on posting vacations and stick to the chatroom. To me, I often think the current posters don't give a fück.
E-Cue says the gospell...
#43
23rd August 2006
Old 23rd August 2006
  #43
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Roland's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post
yes, this is why all those Beatles records and Dark Side Of The Moon and Crime Of The Century all sucked.

no API's that they "needed". Period.


this is utter and complete nonsense.

I don't mean to pick on you Drew, but I understand why a dealer thinks everybody needs to buy everything, but they DON'T

you need ONE good mic pre type, in as many channels as you need to record at once.

if I am recording on an API desk, the Royers sound great through it.
if I am recording on a Neve the Royers sound great through it.

There's no such thing as a preamp that "goes with" something whether it's a mic or a genre or an instrument.
GOOD mic pres "go with" good mics on good instruments.


I'm with you all the way William, unfortunately in the modern "amateur" market they can only get "the" sound with certain combinations of gear. By using either the exact same gear you used on ever successful record you made, or the "magic" gear combinations that our friends such as Drew and Fletcher recommend can we guarantee to produce great sound every time. Perhaps if all pro's gratuitously make use of a piece of Behringer gear on every record they make from now on in, then people will realize that the real secret to hit sound is to use Behringer kit!

These threads used to make me laugh, unfortunatley they are appearing with monotonous regularity and for me at least the novelty has worn off.

regards


Roland
#44
23rd August 2006
Old 23rd August 2006
  #44
Lives for gear
I've been using it with my Neve Portico with the silk engaged and I love it. It also sounds killer just running through my Amek BC3 pre's. It's just a really great mic.
#45
23rd August 2006
Old 23rd August 2006
  #45
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post
if I am recording on an API desk, the Royers sound great through it.
if I am recording on a Neve the Royers sound great through it.

There's no such thing as a preamp that "goes with" something whether it's a mic or a genre or an instrument.
GOOD mic pres "go with" good mics on good instruments.

Word.thumbsup
#46
23rd August 2006
Old 23rd August 2006
  #46
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHunter View Post
I love my 121 with my API 512, but in-general, in the big picture, you need API pres anyway. For guitars, drums, vocals, you name it. API pres are essential studio tools, period.

If'n ya don't have 'em, ya need 'em!
Not to pull the thread too far off course, but gotta agree on the 512s. They are a STANDARD in my arsenal - and for the price there's hardly a need for an API 512 "like" pre.

In response to the original poster, I find a Great River MP2NV, Neve 1064 to be my most often go-to's for the Royer, though a 512 is darned nice for some applications. One current record I'm using the R122 w/ either Great River or 1064 (depending on the song) as my "secret weapon" for most of the vocals. BEUTIFUL mids and I really don't find myself needing ANY compression...

Though guitars (both electric - though I prefer a 4038 if available - and acoustic) are still my prime use for the royer.
#47
23rd August 2006
Old 23rd August 2006
  #47
Gear addict
 
Matt Allison's Avatar
 

Ditto on the 1272 for me. Also had success with an Altec 1567.
fuzzface777
Thread Starter
#48
24th August 2006
Old 24th August 2006
  #48
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fuzzface777's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Do you guys favor putting your royer horizontally off axis or vertically?

I know james Lugo uses the pacifica and some other guy mentioned it. So I guess it can do the guitar or vocal thing very well!
The MP-2nv seems to also as versatile. Would the GT2Q MKIII be another safe bet? Would the Portico be as great ( vocals, rock guitars) ? Or how about the Wunder pre? IS the Chandler TG-2 only good on guitars?
#49
24th August 2006
Old 24th August 2006
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzface777 View Post
IS the Chandler TG-2 only good on guitars?
Definitely. I would never use it on anything else.

Unless it was vocals, drums, or bass. And maybe percussion. Sometimes brass.

Other than that, it's only good on guitars.
#50
24th August 2006
Old 24th August 2006
  #50
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jpupo74's Avatar
 

Hmmm...let me think...

A GML or a Neve or SSL, Manley, Crane Song, Presonus, Langevin, Martin Sound, Mackie, an M-Box, the ones on the Fire pod, Digi 001, Digi 002, Digi 003?, Universal Audio, Pacifica, Germanium, Chandler, al the models for sure, the ones in a Euphonix console, API (all models), Groove Tubes, DW Fearn, Avalon, Focusrite, The Green Pre, Grace Design, Vintech, ART, Studio Projects, Great River, Rane Samson Sumit Audio, True Systems, Blue, Apogee, M-Audio, Aphex, Korg, Yamaha, DBX, Tube Tech, Earthworks, Millenia...

Man I gotta go but all of those will work, I was planning to make a list in alphabetical order and in price but I didn't have time. Just be sure the Phantom Power is off.

Maybe call Royers, they will tell what the best pre amp for their mic will be?

I dunno...
Have fun...

Pupo
#51
24th August 2006
Old 24th August 2006
  #51
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Roland's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzface777 View Post
Do you guys favor putting your royer horizontally off axis or vertically?

I know james Lugo uses the pacifica and some other guy mentioned it. So I guess it can do the guitar or vocal thing very well!
The MP-2nv seems to also as versatile. Would the GT2Q MKIII be another safe bet? Would the Portico be as great ( vocals, rock guitars) ? Or how about the Wunder pre? IS the Chandler TG-2 only good on guitars?
Yes!

Roland
#52
24th August 2006
Old 24th August 2006
  #52
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RoundBadge's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzface777 View Post
Do you guys favor putting your royer horizontally off axis or vertically?

I know james Lugo uses the pacifica and some other guy mentioned it. So I guess it can do the guitar or vocal thing very well!
The MP-2nv seems to also as versatile. Would the GT2Q MKIII be another safe bet? Would the Portico be as great ( vocals, rock guitars) ? Or how about the Wunder pre? IS the Chandler TG-2 only good on guitars?

.. it's way more about source and placement than the pre..
you can't go wrong with any of the above..
I have all of em here[except the Portico ..tried it.. passed]
#53
24th August 2006
Old 24th August 2006
  #53
Gear nut
 

AEA TRP, just got it and WOW! I've never heard my ribbons sound so good.
#54
24th August 2006
Old 24th August 2006
  #54
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GearHunter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzface777 View Post
Are you serious Drew? Ask Fletcher who told me personally on a phone call that he sometimes likes facing the mic directly into the cone, slightly off to the side.....

Slightly OFF center of the cone, sure, but never bullseye straight on dead center cone. Never liked that sound. I mean, the tone comes from the FLANGE of the cone.
#55
25th August 2006
Old 25th August 2006
  #55
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Roland's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHunter View Post
Slightly OFF center of the cone, sure, but never bullseye straight on dead center cone. Never liked that sound. I mean, the tone comes from the FLANGE of the cone.
I think Drew he is refering to either hanging the microphone itself at 90 deg to the ground or using the rear (peaked) response or hanging the mic upside-down. Personally speaking I would be unhappy to consider that the mic performance was effected noticeably by such issues, (reverse of mic situation excluded).

Regards


Roland
fuzzface777
Thread Starter
#56
25th August 2006
Old 25th August 2006
  #56
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fuzzface777's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
So, if I wanted a mic pre for vocals and rock guitar (with my royer 121) -is the pacifica the best bet? The TG-2 industry standard seems safe, but I don't like the idea of only using it on royers tracking only guitars! I would hope a great pre could yield sweetass results in many applications.....
#57
25th August 2006
Old 25th August 2006
  #57
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GearHunter's Avatar
 

I'd still like to see you try the MP-2NV by Great River. Excellent on vocals and guitars, and has plenty of gaineroo for the 121!thumbsup
fuzzface777
Thread Starter
#58
26th August 2006
Old 26th August 2006
  #58
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fuzzface777's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
I have been thinking about the mp-2nv Drew, I read on here that royer uses the pacifica for their mic testing, and Lugo loves the Pacifica -and he obviously sings very well! I have also heard bands doing a whole CD with just the Wunder (can't remember which model though).

THe portico is getting major talk, and people are using it on everything.
The API 512 still popular on anything, but maybe not thick enough for me.
#59
26th August 2006
Old 26th August 2006
  #59
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Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

The royer should work well with nearly any high-gain mic preamp. If you like the guitar amp sound in the room, than the royer will catch this sound to your recording device. The mic preamp choice is hard to discuss, because there are many great units out there and its really a matter of taste. I would go for old telefunken units, which aren´t really expensive, but this is just my opinion. I had great results with the manley voxbox as well. You can play with the input gain of the voxbox. Lower settings will result in a cleaner sound with mor transients, sth like the millenia stuff. Higher settings will have less transients but more character. So, even with this one unit you would have to think about what´s to do. More transients? Metal guitar attacks? Vintage leads? more chracter, higher Gain settings?.... The best would be to rent some preamps and record some differnt musical styles. Than you will find out the sound that fits your needs. Happy trying :-)
#60
30th August 2006
Old 30th August 2006
  #60
Gear nut
 
foxyloxy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHunter View Post
I'd still like to see you try the MP-2NV by Great River. Excellent on vocals and guitars, and has plenty of gaineroo for the 121!thumbsup
I used a 121 for the first time yesterday - recording acoustic guitar. First tried it through my ME1-NV then through a 3124. With the Great River I had to bump up the gain and output considerably to get anywhere near a reasonable level. Through the API, not quite as much and it also sounded way better. I guess with a louder source like a guitar cab this would have changed things - but for my application, the API clearly won the race.
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