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not_so_new
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15th August 2006
Old 15th August 2006
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Tonelux???

Well I am not a fan of negative posts but I think I have reached my limit.

Exactly 2 months ago to the day I paid $1,935.00 for a VRack, a power supply and a CR2 module. I know a small order so maybe that makes me a little guy but almost $2000 is serious money to me.

Anyway in 2 months I would hope to hear something about my unit but each time I talk to my sales rep (when I call him that is) I hear the same thing... "they are working on it, do you want your money back?".... NO I don't want my money back. I would not have ordered it if I wanted someone else to hold my money for 2 months, I ordered it because I want a Tonelux rack.

In the last 2 months has anyone else around here ordered a VRack etc. from Tonelux? Have you received anything from them?

Again I really really hate being negative, sorry for the downer post.

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15th August 2006
Old 15th August 2006
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why don't you call Paul directly?
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15th August 2006
Old 15th August 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new View Post
Well I am not a fan of negative posts but I think I have reached my limit.

Exactly 2 months ago to the day I paid $1,935.00 for a VRack, a power supply and a CR2 module. I know a small order so maybe that makes me a little guy but almost $2000 is serious money to me.

Anyway in 2 months I would hope to hear something about my unit but each time I talk to my sales rep (when I call him that is) I hear the same thing... "they are working on it, do you want your money back?".... NO I don't want my money back. I would not have ordered it if I wanted someone else to hold my money for 2 months, I ordered it because I want a Tonelux rack.

In the last 2 months has anyone else around here ordered a VRack etc. from Tonelux? Have you received anything from them?

Again I really really hate being negative, sorry for the downer post.


Don't sweat it. I have a system on order as well. From what I understand, there is a whole slew of racks and modules on the way. The original prediction was early August, but I always add a couple weeks to those kind of things. I think there were some technical holdups due to EU compliance. Check out the geeksluts section for the discussion of the ROHS initiative.
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15th August 2006
Old 15th August 2006
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Tonelux already has the product delivered to some customers, but they manufacture bigger batch now, so it is no question that it will be shipped soon.
I'm more concerned about sound after some half suspicious comparison tests and reactions of some slutz after they heard it side by side with some other summers, as I expect nothing but the excellent results.
Let them better don't ship to me at all than something that would not pass expected sonic criteria.
In my case fair battle vs Nicerizer/Mixdream is ready, so Tonelux I suggest just do your homework the best you can

I already deleted Shadow Hills Compressor from my list. Fukk them if they can't do what publicly anounced. Plenty of choices thanks God.
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15th August 2006
Old 15th August 2006
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Its understandable to want your new gear,but as sizzleboy said,a LOT of companies are caught up in EU compliance issues,and Tonelux is one of them.I believe Paul Wolf has talked about it in another thread & they are on it.I think Tonelux is also selling better than people might realize.If you have any questions,why dont you just email Paul as suggested,I have a few times & he has always answered very quickly & taken his time to answer all my questions.You wont find too many guys who own the company & design the gear that are this accessible.I have been waiting for an order from Hearback Systems since April,but,what can you do,they were upfront with me about the delay,again,to EU compliance,they are not happy either.You ordered a rack & a control room module,not much you can do with it without the other modules,its not like a full system that might be stopping your recording.(Im not trying to flame you or be a dik).Hang in there & just give Paul a call.
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15th August 2006
Old 15th August 2006
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We are catching up with our back orders after updating the Tonelux products to RoHS standards.

I will get Not So New an update directly this morning.
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#7
15th August 2006
Old 15th August 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new View Post
Well I am not a fan of negative posts but I think I have reached my limit.

Exactly 2 months ago to the day I paid $1,935.00 for a VRack, a power supply and a CR2 module. I know a small order so maybe that makes me a little guy but almost $2000 is serious money to me.

Anyway in 2 months I would hope to hear something about my unit but each time I talk to my sales rep (when I call him that is) I hear the same thing... "they are working on it, do you want your money back?".... NO I don't want my money back. I would not have ordered it if I wanted someone else to hold my money for 2 months, I ordered it because I want a Tonelux rack.

In the last 2 months has anyone else around here ordered a VRack etc. from Tonelux? Have you received anything from them?

Again I really really hate being negative, sorry for the downer post.

I am very sorry for this. We have had RoHS problems, as we all understood when it would be required, but some of our vendors sat on their asses until the last minute.

The big problem was metal work. We use galvanized steel, to prevent rust and corrosion. The problem is that a company in the US figured out how to galvanize steel with a tri-valent chromate process, which is RoHS compliant. The original process was to use hexa-valent chromate which is no longer legal in the EU. The company patented the process and everyone had to buy it from them. There was a glut and I got stuck.

It was a hard decision to not make 2 types of racks and chassis, as Califoirnia will be under the same rules in January.

Things are flowing and I will get this out this week.

In the future, if there are any questions or problems, please email me directly and I will tell you what is happeneing VS the possible dealer spin that may be attached.

Paul
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not_so_new
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15th August 2006
Old 15th August 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang View Post
Tonelux already has the product delivered to some customers, but they manufacture bigger batch now, so it is no question that it will be shipped soon.
I'm more concerned about sound after some half suspicious comparison tests and reactions of some slutz after they heard it side by side with some other summers, as I expect nothing but the excellent results.
Let them better don't ship to me at all than something that would not pass expected sonic criteria.
In my case fair battle vs Nicerizer/Mixdream is ready, so Tonelux I suggest just do your homework the best you can

I already deleted Shadow Hills Compressor from my list. Fukk them if they can't do what publicly anounced. Plenty of choices thanks God.
Hey GYang

Well let's be sure to put this in perspective here..... when you say "I'm more concerned about sound after some half suspicious comparison tests and reactions of some slutz after they heard it side by side with some other summers" I don't know about the first part of that statement but the second half I assume you are pointing towards the comments made by Thrill?

If that is the case I would say two things to that.

First, in the years that I have been here at Gearslutz I have come to realize that I love reading things from Thrill but his ears are either 1000 times more sensitive than mine or that he and I share strikingly different tastes. Many of the other folks at the summing deal that went down in NY a few days back choose the Tonelux as their favorite, Thrill was one of the first and few of the Tonelux detractors.

Second, comparing any two summing devices between each other is almost a useless activity. In my eyes units like the Toneluz and the N16 really need to be used to mix through not to just dump a whole bunch of tracks out to. Mix a track into a Chandler Minimixer and then replace the minimixer with a Tonelux rack and I bet your mix would fall apart… not because the Tonelux sucks, because the mix decisions you made on the minimixer would be completely different on the Tonelux. Unless you start the whole mix over with the Tonelux you are not giving it a far shake and at that point your mix decisions are tainted by the earlier mix.

I guess I am having a little bit of "owners" defense going on because I invested money in the Tonelux piece but I just find it hard to believe that I will dislike it like Thrill did in his listening. One persons ears do not make for a general consensus even when they are the ears of such a highly regarded member of the community right?

#9
15th August 2006
Old 15th August 2006
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Hey Paul,

Thanks for the Update, I'm waiting for a rack full of modules
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15th August 2006
Old 15th August 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w2w View Post
Its understandable to want your new gear,but as sizzleboy said,a LOT of companies are caught up in EU compliance issues,and Tonelux is one of them.I believe Paul Wolf has talked about it in another thread & they are on it.I think Tonelux is also selling better than people might realize.If you have any questions,why dont you just email Paul as suggested,I have a few times & he has always answered very quickly & taken his time to answer all my questions.You wont find too many guys who own the company & design the gear that are this accessible.I have been waiting for an order from Hearback Systems since April,but,what can you do,they were upfront with me about the delay,again,to EU compliance,they are not happy either.You ordered a rack & a control room module,not much you can do with it without the other modules,its not like a full system that might be stopping your recording.(Im not trying to flame you or be a dik).Hang in there & just give Paul a call.
I agree with most of the above, I just want an update is all.

And as to the part about stopping me from recording... in fact it is. I have a Benchmark DAC-1 now for monitoring which I love but I will be selling soon. I also have an Apogee DA-16X that is sitting around waiting for me to hook up but I can't use it until I free up the space on my Lynx AES16 card when I get the DAC-1 out of the chain. Until I get the Tonelux rig I can't hook up the DA-16X and that means I can't use any of my outboard gear to mix with..... I can still "record" but I can't mix with my whole system until I get my Vrack and that is a little frustrating.
not_so_new
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15th August 2006
Old 15th August 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syra View Post
why don't you call Paul directly?
Well my dealer (who shale remain nameless because he has been pretty good) has been doing that for me.

When it get's down to it I really really dig the fact that I can call someone like Paul or Wade or whoever on the phone. In this case I don't have the time and I really don't want to, that is why I went to the dealer first. I see this as my dealers job and they have been doing what they can. Unfortunately due to the Tonelux pricing (I AM NOT FLAMING) they can't discount my gear for the wait they can only offer to give me my money back. I am not interested in getting my money back I am interested in getting my VRack.



My dealer said that he had a really good talk with Gil last week and he was feeling pretty good that this was going to happen soon but that is all just talk right? Until I see something in my sweaty little palms I am going to have to assume that my order is still weeks away at best.

Again I am not flaming anyone, I know that sh*t happens I just want to know that my gear is on the way and that when it gets here it will be a quality unit with no issues.
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15th August 2006
Old 15th August 2006
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Oh and on the good side of this I did receive a PM from both Paul and Gil this AM offering to get things moving, that is a good sign and good customer service.

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15th August 2006
Old 15th August 2006
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I think any time an order is slow, as long as the seller offers a refund, they're cool.
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15th August 2006
Old 15th August 2006
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I would like to comment on a couple of things.
First the sound. I haven't read thrill's comments but I've been using my rig since mid june and if someone dislikes the sound then it just plain personal preference. There is no way someone can say this rig doesn't sound good. It smokes.

Paul will give you it to you straight. If you have problems he'll tell you what's up. I have had nothin but positive experiences with both Paul and Gil at Wave Distribution as well as Al Priest at Studio Tech Supply.

I've heard a couple of comments about the pricing structure. Yeah we all want a good deal but for the first time a maufacturer and distributer have decide to make it fair. Now the guy the dealer doesn't know gets the same deal as the one he does know. If there is no margin the dealer can mess with why complain. You can't get it cheaper than the price nor will you pay more. I''ve always hammered on my dealers for the "MY Price". Now I don't have to go thru the hassle. K.
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15th August 2006
Old 15th August 2006
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I have a three V-Rack system, a 24-channel console with 12 channels of mic pre and EQ, tracking to a Radar V-Nyquist. Paul has been incredibly responsive and generally, goes out of his way to help his clients, in my experience.

Re: Kellyd's comments, I wholeheartedly concur:

First the sound. I haven't read thrill's comments but I've been using my rig since mid june and if someone dislikes the sound then it just plain personal preference. There is no way someone can say this rig doesn't sound good. It smokes.

Personal preferences can certainly come into play, maybe it's not your "thing" (whatever that means ... at some point, at a certain level of quality, it all starts to seem pretty fetishistic to me), but there is no denying this is a world-class solution that sounds killer. It's not "buyer's glow" either, if I didn't like it, I'd just sell it and buy something else, I have nothing vested in liking or disliking it. We're doing a ton of tracking right now - diverse stuff, too, from classical guitar to classic rock - and we're in heaven with this setup.
#16
16th August 2006
Old 16th August 2006
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good to hear. I have a 32X8X2 system supposedly shipping tomorrow that I ordered and paid for in may. I'm pretty anxious!
#17
8th September 2006
Old 8th September 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneLux View Post

It was a hard decision to not make 2 types of racks and chassis, as Califoirnia will be under the same rules in January.

Sheesh, can't they just include one of those "if you use this product in the state of California, it will kill you" stickers?

Heck, my great grandfather was eating peaches out of lead sealed cans before California was even a twinkle in the USA's eye, and I turned out fine!
#18
8th September 2006
Old 8th September 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GJS View Post
I have a three V-Rack system, a 24-channel console with 12 channels of mic pre and EQ, tracking to a Radar V-Nyquist. Paul has been incredibly responsive and generally, goes out of his way to help his clients, in my experience.

Re: Kellyd's comments, I wholeheartedly concur:

First the sound. I haven't read thrill's comments but I've been using my rig since mid june and if someone dislikes the sound then it just plain personal preference. There is no way someone can say this rig doesn't sound good. It smokes.

Personal preferences can certainly come into play, maybe it's not your "thing" (whatever that means ... at some point, at a certain level of quality, it all starts to seem pretty fetishistic to me), but there is no denying this is a world-class solution that sounds killer. It's not "buyer's glow" either, if I didn't like it, I'd just sell it and buy something else, I have nothing vested in liking or disliking it. We're doing a ton of tracking right now - diverse stuff, too, from classical guitar to classic rock - and we're in heaven with this setup.


I concur..

I'm not doing any A/B tests around here anymore..to many variables..
and invariably the shitstorms ensue ..
I did a test with the Chandler mixer last year alongside the API and Mixdream and had the polar opposite experience that Thrill had..the thing sounded kinda dark and small[defective unit?my ears suck? ]
the bottom line is to mix through the stuff to see ultimately what it can do for you
My TLX rig is awesome..
side by side[what initially started as extra mix inputs] with an API 2488 last month,Splitting Drums,bass,gtrs to both mixers..everyone chose the TLX for size and punch/clarity..
And the Pre's/ EQ's are
#19
8th September 2006
Old 8th September 2006
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And oh yeah..this ROHs thing is a real f*cking drag..
[I've got some EQ's backordered as well.. ..we're all in the same boat]

I have no doubt Paul & Gil are completely on top of things are doing the best they canthumbsup
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8th September 2006
Old 8th September 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
And oh yeah..this ROHs thing is a real f*cking drag..
[I've got some EQ's backordered as well.. ..we're all in the same boat]

I have no doubt Paul & Gil are completely on top of things are doing the best they canthumbsup
I'm out in LA working with my manufacturer and we released the log jam, so things are going to flow quickly now. He had to purchase a $60,000 lead free soldering machine and has it up now. We were building everything by hand until this. It costs him $20,000 in solder to get it running...
#21
8th September 2006
Old 8th September 2006
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And oh yeah..this ROHs thing is a real f*cking drag..
When finally will americans learn that polluting the environment costs them thousand times more in the future than fixing problems when they start...NOW ?

I agree that things are not easy to change - however the future of YOUR children is worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneLux View Post
I'm out in LA working with my manufacturer and we released the log jam, so things are going to flow quickly now. He had to purchase a $60,000 lead free soldering machine and has it up now. We were building everything by hand until this. It costs him $20,000 in solder to get it running...

Ecological thinking is not just a crazy idea by stupid europeans who hate boutique audio manufacturers.
There´s something behind it.

Damn, short time thinking makes me sick stike
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8th September 2006
Old 8th September 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman View Post

When finally will americans learn that polluting the environment costs them thousand times more in the future than fixing problems when they start...NOW ?

Since when did RondBadge become the voice of America? Why not address him instead of lumping all of us together?



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8th September 2006
Old 8th September 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman View Post
When finally will americans learn that polluting the environment costs them thousand times more in the future than fixing problems when they start...NOW ?

I agree that things are not easy to change - however the future of YOUR children is worth it.




Ecological thinking is not just a crazy idea by stupid europeans who hate boutique audio manufacturers.
There´s something behind it.

Damn, short time thinking makes me sick stike
I agree 1000%. We have probably waited too long for our kids. THe problem is our leadership, who needs to be in jail not office. By avoiding such things as pollution treaties, reversing EPA standards and allowing dumping of anything, we are slowly killing ourselves. The EU went a bit too far in not realizing that certain items sold won't ever end up in a land fill, so they should have required a certain level of compliance.

I would have said this: If a product has a warranty of 5 years or more and is considered "professional" (and proof of such), then, I would allow certain exceptions. PC boards are fine being lead free. Parts are fine, as most of them are now and there is no difference. I would make exceptions where lead free solder would cause a product to fail and end up in the trash, like soldering wires to PCBs (silver is too brittle) and fine pitch SMD chips and ball grid arrays.

The problem is that they went accross the board and that always ends up bad.
#24
8th September 2006
Old 8th September 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman View Post
When finally will americans learn that polluting the environment costs them thousand times more in the future than fixing problems when they start...NOW ?

I agree that things are not easy to change - however the future of YOUR children is worth it.

Ecological thinking is not just a crazy idea by stupid europeans who hate boutique audio manufacturers.
There´s something behind it.

Damn, short time thinking makes me sick stike

Calm down .. NOT disagreeing with the reasons/directives behind it..

I am fully aware of the eco impact my friend..
I own a hybrid vehicle..recycle everything..and one of our studios is being partially converted to solar power..among other things

My bad..Just being an impatient assh*le thinking out loud about waiting for gear..
so yeah.. the ROHs is a drag..
#25
8th September 2006
Old 8th September 2006
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Roundbadge, why should Shaman be upset ??? Heck, we gave them Euro Disney after all !!!!!!

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#26
8th September 2006
Old 8th September 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman View Post

I agree that things are not easy to change - however the future of YOUR children is worth it.



Hey, Shaman. I hear rumblings that RoHS may be a sneaky way to penalize goods coming from out of the EU rather than a real, workable way to improve the ecology of the planet.

In other words, if you make it easier for manufacturers in the EU to get exemptions to RoHS, their gear becomes less expensive to manufacture and they can either sell it for less or make more on each piece or both.

Can anyone say this isn't the case?
#27
8th September 2006
Old 8th September 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman View Post
When finally will americans learn that polluting the environment costs them thousand times more in the future than fixing problems when they start...NOW ?

I agree that things are not easy to change - however the future of YOUR children is worth it.




Ecological thinking is not just a crazy idea by stupid europeans who hate boutique audio manufacturers.
There´s something behind it.

Damn, short time thinking makes me sick stike
RoHS is a scam. Heavy metals don't leach in land fills. The whole basis for this law is theoretical. All the supposed benefits are very vague. general reductions in this and that. Nothing specific. Billions of dollars spent on something that is purely a feel good social cause.

I'm all for preventing environmental damage but banning leaded solder is hardly going to do that. The fact that this law bans all kinds of things that will never see a land fill anyway is of no concern? It's poorly written and unfair, will never actually accomplish what it purports to, but other than that
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8th September 2006
Old 8th September 2006
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Ever think how much lead is introduced directly into our land and streams due to hunting with lead shot. Or the amount of lead weights used and lost every year during commercial and recreational fishing? It's just a fraction of the lead put into landfills, but this stuff is being released directly into the enviornment. As far as I know, there are still no regulations on lead used in hunting and fishing, at least over here in East Coast, USA. Then again, I have no idea what the implications, as I'm not sure that there is anything in the enviornment that will break down or disolve lead. Landfills are another story, as you can get an unpredictable "chemical soup" going, that will do god knows what.

Back to tonelux, though. I'm glad the ball is rolling again! I truely hope Tonelux will be a big part of the future of high end music production.
#29
8th September 2006
Old 8th September 2006
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Originally Posted by heyman View Post
Roundbadge, why should Shaman be upset ??? Heck, we gave them Euro Disney after all !!!!!!

thumbsup Copy that!
#30
8th September 2006
Old 8th September 2006
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Ever think how much lead is introduced directly into our land and streams due to hunting with lead shot.
Perfect example. There's a shooting range north of LA that's been there for about 50 years. Literally tons of lead pounded into the soil. There's a huge ground water network underneath. The EPA is out there about every 5 minutes checking for lead in the ground water as an excuse to shut them down and has never been able to do it. It just doesn't dissolve like it would have to in order to leach. Also, where do you think the lead Paul can't use in his solder comes from anyway? They mine it just like coal, gold, etc. It comes from the ground.
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