Finalizing My Outboard Gear Set-up ( Thrill + Others )

[RIZ Records]

Hi guys, okay ive come a long way thanks to you guys and i just wanted to ask a few last questions for now about finalizing my outboard gear set-up,ect. Im producing commercial hip-hop btw.


Ive decided to go with 2 mic pre's/DI's, 2 compressors, and 2 EQ's, mostly for tracking and a bit of touch up mixing after.


Thrill, i got the chance to demo only the Distressors and UA 1176 re-issue for 2 hours or so. I pretty much liked both units and i found the distressors can hit harder and have more flexibility, while the 1176 sounded more big and phat. I could have been doing something wrong, but im guessing it would be way better to have both. I just bought a stereo pair of Distressors.



I wouldnt get the UA 1176 re-issue though, i think the Purple Audio MC77 would be a better choice for my second compressor. Iv read that the MC77 sounds brighter and thinner than the vintage Urei 1176, is this true? I dont care about it being brighter, but i dont want it to sound thin.


As far as EQ's, i was thinking a good combo would be a Manley Massive Passive, and the new Chandler Limited Tone Control EQ's that are coming out soon. What do you think about this combo? You said the Massive Passive is supposed to be great for mids, while the Chandler Tone Control is supposed to be great on the low and high end, according to users who had a chance to test it out. Im hoping the transformers give a nice saturated sound aswell.


About the Massive Passive, how does it sound Thrill? Does it colour the sound and if so how can you describe it? Ive read over 10 reviews on it and everybody said it sounded amazing, and you can really shape sounds. They said that they even just run sounds through it with no EQ sometimes just for the colour. Is it clean and clear?



Also, what do you think about the HEDD 192 for the tape saturation? I like the sound of tape, so i was thinking this would add a nice sound to the end of my chain to make it sound more like a "record".



Lastly, ive been really listening to finished industry recordings, and it sounds like after the track is recorded, or mixed, something is done to the 2 track song to give it some new sonic palette. I cant explain it or know what it is though. What is done to the 2 track after its recorded or mixed? Does it go through some 2 track EQ or analog processing?



Thx a lot!

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

Hi guys, okay ive come a long way thanks to you guys and i just wanted to ask a few last questions for now about finalizing my outboard gear set-up,ect. Im producing commercial hip-hop btw.


Ive decided to go with 2 mic pre's/DI's, 2 compressors, and 2 EQ's, mostly for tracking and a bit of touch up mixing after.

Sounds good.

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

Thrill, i got the chance to demo only the Distressors and UA 1176 re-issue for 2 hours or so. I pretty much liked both units and i found the distressors can hit harder and have more flexibility, while the 1176 sounded more big and phat. I could have been doing something wrong, but im guessing it would be way better to have both. I just bought a stereo pair of Distressors.

I would opt for the UA LA2A reissue myself but that's me.

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

I wouldnt get the UA 1176 re-issue though, i think the Purple Audio MC77 would be a better choice for my second compressor. Iv read that the MC77 sounds brighter and thinner than the vintage Urei 1176, is this true? I dont care about it being brighter, but i dont want it to sound thin.

I have a MC76 & 1/2(MC76 body with MC77 guts) and i had a UA 1176 reissue for a while.

They are both good.

Yeah the MC77 is a slight brighter but i wouldn't say its thinner.

I would say its flashier than the originals i've used in the past. Sometimes that's good and other times...tutt

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

As far as EQ's, i was thinking a good combo would be a Manley Massive Passive, and the new Chandler Limited Tone Control EQ's that are coming out soon. What do you think about this combo? You said the Massive Passive is supposed to be great for mids, while the Chandler Tone Control is supposed to be great on the low and high end, according to users who had a chance to test it out. Im hoping the transformers give a nice saturated sound aswell.

Sounds fine i guess.

I've never used the Chandler so i have no opinions on it.

I probably would go for a Neve EQ and API EQ mixture myself to go along with the MP EQ.

More colors, more options thing.

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

About the Massive Passive, how does it sound Thrill? Does it colour the sound and if so how can you describe it? Ive read over 10 reviews on it and everybody said it sounded amazing, and you can really shape sounds. They said that they even just run sounds through it with no EQ sometimes just for the colour. Is it clean and clear?

On the sound thing don't go by other people's opinions or reviews(this includes mine).

Again we all hear things and approach things sonically from different perspectives.

My 2 cents?

Its not big or tough or transformer/tubey sounding ala a Pultec.

Its not sterile and clean ala GML 8200.

Its somewhere in between.

Lets just say if you run something through it as soon as you turn it off you will know it.

The magic happens when you turn the knobs.

The amount of control and sonic sculpting options are tremendous...well it is to me.

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

Also, what do you think about the HEDD 192 for the tape saturation? I like the sound of tape, so i was thinking this would add a nice sound to the end of my chain to make it sound more like a "record".

What do i think?

I don't.

I had a HEDD 192 years back and what i disliked the most were those distortion/tape emulators and the D/A.

Not even close to the real thing.

Blah!!!

Its a nice and bold sounding converter though and being able to work at 2 different sampling rates is priceless.(its best features).

I know Dave H. has upgraded the D/A and i heard that its improved.

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

Lastly, ive been really listening to finished industry recordings, and it sounds like after the track is recorded, or mixed, something is done to the 2 track song to give it some new sonic palette. I cant explain it or know what it is though. What is done to the 2 track after its recorded or mixed? Does it go through some 2 track EQ or analog processing?



Thx a lot!

Its called mastering.

There is a whole forumn devoted to what they do.

Good Luck.

[RIZ Records]

Hey Thrill, thx a lot for your response and help! I really appreciate it, as always!


As for the MC77, what do you mean by flashier? Do you think with a pair of Distressors and MC77's i would be pretty much convered in all areas for now? Or do you think there would be something better than the MC77 for my second compressor? I think you get the idea of the type of sound im after.



As for the EQ, i orderded a GTQ2 MKIII, so there is some Neve EQ on there aswell.


Lastly, whats your opinion on the RME ADI-8 Pro convertors? Do you think i should swap mine with something else?


Thx again Thrill!

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

Do you think with a pair of Distressors and MC77's i would be pretty much convered in all areas for now? Or do you think there would be something better than the MC77 for my second compressor?

If I had a pair of Distressors around I'd get something really different as my second compressor. Maybe some sorta gooey opto thing like an El-Op or the Buzz opto, anything with a radically different sound & feel. IMO the Distressors and 1176's can cover a lot of the same ground...

[RIZ Records]

Thx, well i wanted to use these 2 compressors in a chain as a combo.


For example using the MC77s for the colour and phatness,ect, and then going into the distressors for more compression options and setting, and a bit more saturation.


Im looking for some other compressor that could be used with the Distressors the best, in this way. I know the Distressors dont really color the sound "too much" or whatever because they dont have transformers, but they have great compression options, and you can really get things to "smack". So i think it would be killer to use a combination of the Distressor, and another compressor that has a definite phat sonic signature ( the mojo) in the same chain. I like the Dr.Dre, big phat, vintage, clear, warm type of sound. A PHAT LOW END IS A MUST!!!


So im thinking either the Tube Tech CL1B, or Purple Audio MC77. I need nice clear saturation and phatness. I have the Tube Tech Pre aswell as the GTQ2 Pre.


From what ive read:

Tube Tech CL1B - great for vocals and bass
Purple Audio MC77 - great for almost anything including bass and vocals.


Im not too concerned with vocals right now, but wouldnt the MC77 be more "Dre-ish? How would the CL1B sound on drums, synths, and keyboard sounds, compared to the MC77?

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

As for the MC77, what do you mean by flashier? Do you think with a pair of Distressors and MC77's i would be pretty much convered in all areas for now? Or do you think there would be something better than the MC77 for my second compressor? I think you get the idea of the type of sound im after.

i like the 77.. its seems quieter and definitley has more output gain than the reissue's
..not thin" sounding.and you can get em for pretty much the same price as the UA's..
the build is more robust as well.

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

As for the EQ, i orderded a GTQ2 MKIII, so there is some Neve EQ on there aswell.

i have a GTQ..the pre is in the Neve vibe with less of the transient compress thing,a bit more air on top..which can be useful for certian things ,especially acoustic stuff..but the EQ, although nice, is not like a 1073..
The chandler LTD-1 or averill would get you closer to a 1073 type EQ,if thats what you are going for.thumbsup

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

Im looking for some other compressor that could be used with the Distressors the best, in this way. I know the Distressors dont really color the sound "too much" or whatever because they dont have transformers, but they have great compression options, and you can really get things to "smack". So i think it would be killer to use a combination of the Distressor, and another compressor that has a definite phat sonic signature ( the mojo) in the same chain. I like the Dr.Dre, big phat, vintage, clear, warm type of sound. A PHAT LOW END IS A MUST!!!

Wow man...

We must be on other ends of universe or something 'cause IME the Distressors are HIGHLY colored compressors.

The tone, attack & envelope of the compression is really audible to me even at less extreme settings. They're all about midrange, if anything the bottom feels "pinched" to me with the Distressors.

If you're looking for a "phat" low end you'll have to make sure it's in the material to start with. Compressors (no matter WHAT compressor) tend to thin out the lows...

The El-Op or CL1B might be good for you...maybe a Summit TLA-100...LA2A...some old broadcast piece from the 30's or 40's like a Collins or RCA...

Even an Orban compressor would be different enough.

I dunno. Whenever I have Distressors around I always feel like I'm trying to cop an 1176 vibe from them...

Having both around is killer but they're really kinda interchangeable for most things IME.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

Hey Thrill, thx a lot for your response and help! I really appreciate it, as always!


As for the MC77, what do you mean by flashier? Do you think with a pair of Distressors and MC77's i would be pretty much convered in all areas for now? Or do you think there would be something better than the MC77 for my second compressor? I think you get the idea of the type of sound im after.

Read the post before.

I would opt for something smoother with more color/vibe.

Like what?

I suggested the UA La2a.

The CL1B is cool as well if you change the tubes.

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

As for the EQ, i orderded a GTQ2 MKIII, so there is some Neve EQ on there aswell.

Ok.thumbsup

I suggested a Neve EQ because i've always felt that it compliments the MP EQ well.

Basically where the MP EQ can't scratch the Neve EQ will.

Also some API's would be a good idea as well.

Again i haven't used the Chandlers so i can't help you there.

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

Lastly, whats your opinion on the RME ADI-8 Pro convertors? Do you think i should swap mine with something else?


Thx again Thrill!

Again no comment since i've never tried them.

Maybe someone else with some experience can chime in here.

It's sounding like you are looking to buy something via Gearslutz recommendation. As far as asking upgrade opinions, I used to be the EXACT same way with asking advice here.

I ended up with all of the pieces, and I'm still collecting. The bottom line is that you cannot read buzz words like "LA2a = Fat" or "dbx = pop/crack" and take them seriously. What becomes the problem is that you have a sound in your head that YOU associate with fat or pop/crack which may be NOTHING like what the poster is hearing and speaking off. INFACT most times it's a subtle difference being described. You'll end up buying gear blindly expecting that sound when in most cases it's a combo of things that give something the sound you've become accoustomed to hearing.

Buy one or two pieces and upgrade slowly so that you can learn the pieces and their combinations thoroughly.

[RIZ Records]

Thx again Thrill, for the great responce.


Which "one" API EQ would you recommend?


I think im going to go with the CL1B for my second compressor, and i was just wondering if it is a coloured compressor, as thats what im looking for. Also, can 2 of them be stereo linked?



Thx again Thrill as always i really appreciate your great help and posts




no ssl yet, i totally agree with you.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

Thx again Thrill, for the great responce.


Which "one" API EQ would you recommend?

If you can swing it find an API 5502.

If not an API 550a.

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

I think im going to go with the CL1B for my second compressor, and i was just wondering if it is a coloured compressor, as thats what im looking for. Also, can 2 of them be stereo linked??

I would say a CL1B with standard tubes is colored but not heavily colored.

Somewhere in between.

If you change the tubes to Mullards the coloration becomes more pleasant and euphonic.

But it still does not make it heavily colored.

I would demo one against the UA la2a and choose based on what you hear and feel.

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

Thx again Thrill as always i really appreciate your great help and posts

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

I would demo one against the UA la2a and choose based on what you hear and feel.

Maybe he can check a Sta level as well.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Maybe he can check a Sta level as well.

For a first compressor?

tutt

Its too one trick pony.


If he had a bunch of comps and wanted something different than maybe.


But its sounds like he needs something a little more versatile.

Thrill, I havent extensively used an La2a, but I do have a CL 1B. How do they differ?

In what ways would you say they are alike?

(I got the CL1B for $999 so it was hard to pass up. I coulda had 2 but I took a day to think about it and it was sold by the next day.)

Instead of going 1176/LA2A for variety, I opted to go distrestor withmods/CL1B. I'm kinda ready to add some more comps. But, I need EQ's first.

[RIZ Records]

Thx guys!


Thrill, so do you think its would be pointless at this point for me to get a MC77 when i already have a pair of Distressors? If you had to choose betweem a CL1B and a LA2A what would "you" choose? I have absolutely no way to demo the CL1B to know if its better than the LA2A.


no ssl yet, what do you think about the CL1B? Do you find it colours the sound alot? and how does it sound on drums, synths,ect? Thx!

[Ricey]

i've used both(don't know which tubes were in the CL1B though) and found the CL1B more versatile, but i still bought the LA2A reissue for what it can do with little fuss. i feel the same way about comparing the C2 and G384.

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

Thx guys!


Thrill, so do you think its would be pointless at this point for me to get a MC77 when i already have a pair of Distressors? If you had to choose betweem a CL1B and a LA2A what would "you" choose? I have absolutely no way to demo the CL1B to know if its better than the LA2A.


no ssl yet, what do you think about the CL1B? Do you find it colours the sound alot? and how does it sound on drums, synths,ect? Thx!

I'd say that the Tube Tech is lightly colored. It's typically used on vocal tracking and bass for me. I think when you are just starting out it's important to have different types of compressors covered. I tend to go CL1B when I need "smoother" compression, and distressor or dbx160xt on percussion sounds. I may go for La2a/1176 as my next move so I can have more flavors.

(I also need another distressor and CL 1B for stereo sounds).

It never ends.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

For a first compressor?

tutt

Its too one trick pony.


If he had a bunch of comps and wanted something different than maybe.


But its sounds like he needs something a little more versatile.

Yep your right.. but maybe later, down the slutty little paththumbsup

[RIZ Records]

no ssl yet, thx for the reply, i know your heavy on the hip-hop too, so mabye you can help me out.


I have my own musical style for producing, but sonically i want to go in that Dre inspired type of direction, thick, beefy, phat, vintage, warm, punchy, detailed, clear,ect. Its just the sound i like. I mean who like's small, puny, sounds? Im looking for LOTS of colour and analog saturation, so it sounds really processed. I really need my low end to be phat.


Basically im starting off with 2 pre's/DI's, to compressors, and 2 EQ's.


For the Pre's/DI's i just ordered the Aurora Audio GT2Q from Tony, and have the Tube Tech pre/DI, aswell.



For Compressors, i just bought a stereo pair of Distressors with Brit Mod, and im trying to decide on my second compressor. I want something that will compliment the Distressors. I want lots of colour. I need something thats great on bass, but great on other things like drums, synths,ect. I was thinking of doing mabye 2 softer limits on 2 different compressors some times, on the same sound, the Distressors being one of them used. For me its either the MC77, LA2A, or CL1B. The MC77 is basically a new version of the 1176, so i dont know if the Distressors cover the 1176 "sound" gound enough, or if combining the 2 would sound great.



For EQ's im getting a Massive Passive, and most likely the new Chandler Tone Controls. Possibly the API soon aswell.


I want to toally change the sounds, and be able to make it sound like a record with the proper techniques.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

Thx guys!


Thrill, so do you think its would be pointless at this point for me to get a MC77 when i already have a pair of Distressors?

Pointless?

You are asking the wrong guy.

I am a HIGH END gearslut.

Too much cool gear is never enough.

By the way all jokes aside...owning both my answer is no.

While the Distressors find their uses more often them not, when i need the sound that only the 1176 does i reach for an 1176(or in this case MC77) not a Distressor.

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

If you had to choose betweem a CL1B and a LA2A what would "you" choose? I have absolutely no way to demo the CL1B to know if its better than the LA2A.

Again wrong question.

My gearslut answer is always get both...you will need what each does differently eventually.

In the past to start off a bread and butter comp collection the CL1B was always included in my list(check past threads).

These days i am using the UA La2a more and more in tracking vocals(95% of the time) so i am leaning towards it a little more.

Sonically its somewhere in between the original and a CL1B.

[RIZ Records]

Thanks a lot Thrill, for the help.


Ive been doing more and more reading in the meantime, waiting for the used gear im looking for to pop up. Regarding the Great River EQ, i get the feeling that its a bit to bright and doest have that warm vintage sound with saturation im looking for. Does this sound right to you? I did like the way it enhanced the audio in bringing out the detail and music of the instruments to my ears, especially the acoustic guitar. I dont know, it seems like more of a EQ for Country music, and not really that phat, saturated, hop-hop sound.


Regarding other EQ's, does the API 550a saturate? I was also thinking about getting the SSL Logic FX 383 EQ, whats your opinion on this EQ? Is it going to give me colour or saturation?


Lastly, which EQ will get me the closest to a real Pultec? I know none can match the real thing, but what is the closest thing to it in terms of the saturation, thick phat low end, and meatyness?


Thx Thrill!

[blaugruen7]

RIZ

my humble opinion is that you should forget about reading more and more...

take for example my small ITB-selfness.

i am reading gearslutz since years.

some days before i had the great chance to listen for some hours to the phoenix compressor, a chandler tg1, an api 2500, two 1176, a cranesong compressor and a massive passive.

that got everything very well in balance for me:

reading about sex is not a substitution for actually having sex.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

Thanks a lot Thrill, for the help.


Ive been doing more and more reading in the meantime, waiting for the used gear im looking for to pop up. Regarding the Great River EQ, i get the feeling that its a bit to bright and doest have that warm vintage sound with saturation im looking for. Does this sound right to you? I did like the way it enhanced the audio in bringing out the detail and music of the instruments to my ears, especially the acoustic guitar. I dont know, it seems like more of a EQ for Country music, and not really that phat, saturated, hop-hop sound.


Regarding other EQ's, does the API 550a saturate? I was also thinking about getting the SSL Logic FX 383 EQ, whats your opinion on this EQ? Is it going to give me colour or saturation?


Lastly, which EQ will get me the closest to a real Pultec? I know none can match the real thing, but what is the closest thing to it in terms of the saturation, thick phat low end, and meatyness?


Thx Thrill!

Yep,As Thrill will tell ya..nothing nails le Pultec mojo thing like the original..
lord knows, I tried others and always come back to the real thing

As far as some wanna be's I own/owned/tried:
The mercury's EQH-2's versions are somewhat decent if you find em cheap..
i wouldn't pay more than 3 1/2 - 4 g's for a pair though..otherwise they're overpriced for what they claim to be...
The Summitt EQP 200[A/B] is another cheap one and sounds decent with diff tubes[Mine had mullards] $1200.00 to $1600.00
The Fearn EQ's are great for a tiny bit cleaner more aggresive modern Pultec'ish vibe
..love em.grrReat for hip hop drums,,not really cheap though.


You really should wait and demo the new chandler Germ EQ..they're bad ass.
I'm getting a pair!

[RIZ Records]

Thanks guys, i appreciate the help. I'll have to hear the Chandler EQ before i consider it.


But i wanted to get "Thrills" opinion on the SSL Logic FX 383 EQ and 384 compressor. If you dont mind Thrill. These are my last question for a while Thrill, i promise .


So i decided to add the Avedis E27 EQ ( Similar To API ) to my set-up. So i have the Massive Passive, The 3 band Neve EQ on the Aurora Audio GT2Q, and the Avedis E27.

Whats your opinion on the SSL Logic FX 383 EQ? How does it sound and compare to my current EQ set-up? Would it fit in nicely? How is the low end? Does it thicken it up? I guess i would use this more for mixing than tracking?


Also, whats your opinion on the FX 384 compressor? Do you think the FX 383 and 384 would be good mixing tools to clean and polish things up if needed, and add that SSL punch and sound?


If i tracked some drums or something with the Distressors, would i use SSL compressor for mixing individual drums and instruments? Would i do this if i didnt get enough punch from the Distressors?


If you have time, could you please help me out with these last questions if you have time? Thanks Thrill!

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

Thanks guys, i appreciate the help. I'll have to hear the Chandler EQ before i consider it.


But i wanted to get "Thrills" opinion on the SSL Logic FX 383 EQ and 384 compressor. If you dont mind Thrill. These are my last question for a while Thrill, i promise .

Ok you promise right?

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

So i decided to add the Avedis E27 EQ ( Similar To API ) to my set-up. So i have the Massive Passive, The 3 band Neve EQ on the Aurora Audio GT2Q, and the Avedis E27.

Whats your opinion on the SSL Logic FX 383 EQ? How does it sound and compare to my current EQ set-up? Would it fit in nicely? How is the low end? Does it thicken it up? I guess i would use this more for mixing than tracking?


Also, whats your opinion on the FX 384 compressor? Do you think the FX 383 and 384 would be good mixing tools to clean and polish things up if needed, and add that SSL punch and sound?


If i tracked some drums or something with the Distressors, would i use SSL compressor for mixing individual drums and instruments? Would i do this if i didnt get enough punch from the Distressors?


If you have time, could you please help me out with these last questions if you have time? Thanks Thrill!

Sorry the above seems more than one question so i can't answer it.

I'll try it to answer it as conscise as as i can:

If you want the SSL sound your best bet is to mix through the console.

All the parts working together in the console is the "SSL SOUND".

I like the original FX384 compressor(gray one) for different uses.

If you want an SSL channel maybe look into the new external E channel remake instead of the 383.

But out of the console they all sound different.

On the lack of punch issue that's more about lack of mixing/producing skills than the idea of using a compressor.

In the end after reading through this whole thread i really believe that hiring someone like Bob Power, Russ Elevado or Richard Huredia will get you closer to the sound you want than the gear alone ever will.

[Mike Caffrey]

Originally Posted by RIZ Records

Thx guys!


Thrill, so do you think its would be pointless at this point for me to get a MC77 when i already have a pair of Distressors? If you had to choose betweem a CL1B and a LA2A what would "you" choose? I have absolutely no way to demo the CL1B to know if its better than the LA2A.


no ssl yet, what do you think about the CL1B? Do you find it colours the sound alot? and how does it sound on drums, synths,ect? Thx!

I think you'll be very disappointed with the 1176s if you what a fat lowend.

I know what you're talking about with the saturation sound. I love that too, but you rarely need more that one piece in a chain to get that and if you've got too many pieces it can sound bad.

I can't imagine what an 1176 and distressor in series would sound good for and I frequently use compressors in series.


You'll definitely get your saturation tone from the Chandler EQ.

I'd second Thrills advices for an API EQ. I'd also think that a Lil Freq or a TG EQ qould be better for you than a massive passive, but while I've used one, I haven't owned one.

As for a additional compressor, I think you'd be happiest with the Thermionic Culture Phonenix. It's kind of the opposite of an SSL for the stereo buss, but there are plenty of people who use them there and for mastering. The think that makes me think you'd like it is your quest for saturation. It's a bit unusual in that it has an input conrol and a threshold control. The input control has a ton of effect on the saturation tone and it's got a ton of low end - I recently gave a compression lesson where I showed someone compressing a kick and snare with an 1176 and then switch to the Phoenix for some contrast. When I A/B'd the two sounds, the 1176s sounded so small next to the Phoenix that I listed them here that night, knowing that I'd never reach for them again. (I replaced them with a second pair of Distressors)

I used it on the drum/bass subgroup on the last hip hop track I mixed and the cleint loved the results (And artist named Jag from LA).

I love it for vocals as well and often send one channel set fast/fast into the other set slow/slow. I could see setting possibly repacing the fast/fast channel with a Distressor for truer peak limiting.

I've also bee very happy with the sound of the inputs full up and distorted for a hard rock bass.

It's the ease of control over the saturation with the input controls and then low end tone that make think you'll like it.

It will aslo give you a lot more flexibilty with other things you buy, because you'd could use it for minimal compression and use a "non-saturation" like pre or EQ with it and get the saturation you want.

You'll probably find 5 guys who agree with me and 5 who disagree, and in the end maybel I like it because of the way I make it interact with other gear and maybe you don't work that way. Or maybe I like it becuase I've had my room tuned and I know what I'm hearing is very accurate and my listening environment gives me a diiferent impression than you get from yours. Who knows, but I do want to echo Thrill's advice that buying based on other people's opinions is dangerous.

[RIZ Records]

Thx a ton RoundBadge, Thrill, Mike Caffrey, and everybody for your help!

[STARSKI]

hey riz just a little advice from someone who does rap and mixes thier own stuff. all this gear is great to have but the skill of mixing well will make a huge difference. i don't know your level of mixing but let me just use this as an example. within the last year i have been mixing a lot, i'm doing all my own mixes and mixing for some local cats around here. about a year ago i went into a bigger studio around here with an ssl 4000 and mixed a bunch of my songs. i used to work at the studio so the owner let me come in late night for cheap without one of his house engineers and mix my own music. the mixes were ok. now i'm mixing all my stuff at my home studio on pro tools le itb and my mixes are killing the ones i did a year ago on the ssl. its all because of my skills of mixing and my comfort with the tools i have and knowing how my room sounds. i bought a bunch of gear which i still use for tracking but when it comes to mixing im mostly just staying inside protools. my point is that i love buying gear and i am definitely a gearslut, but it's most important to get comfortable with what you have and get good at using it. and just because you have the same couple a pieces as someone who's mixes you love doesn't mean your gonna get a sound like theirs. but if you got any questions as to what i have and what their good for feel free to ask, i definitely am happy with the tools i have and always want more.....

[STARSKI]

oh also thrill how are those avedis e27 eqs???? i have the e15 and i love it, just wondered if it was any different or just more bands....

[RIZ Records]

Hey STARSKI, thanks for your advice, its appreciated. What kind of plug-ins do you use for your ITB mixing? I dont have PT but i have Cubase SX3. Im going to pick up the Waves SSL bundle, URS A and N series EQ, and im guessing the UAD-1 might be a good choice aswell for mixing?