TL Audio Console Opinions

[never174]

Does anyone have any experiance with the M3 of the new M4 console? I'm curious about the sound.

[AMIEL]

me too!!

[Riccardo]

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=83462


Can't help about the M3 but I do know the M4 fairly well as my business partner has got one, just ask if there is anything you want to know.

[Fuel]

Well the sound quality?

[Riccardo]

It is not an G4K nor a 9K or an 88R
but It is very well priced, you get a lot for the money and any skilled engineer could make a good sounding record with it.
I might well be wrong but I don't think there's anything else in the same price range with same facilities.
It does lack a mono switch unfortunately.

[Fletcher]

Interesting. I heard one a while ago... had to work on it. Got some relatively decent tracks in spite of it, but in all fairness I did bring serious racks of outboard gear for the most part I ran nothing but returns back through the thing, but did use 6 channels to sum 6 mics to 3 tracks for rack toms... a non-critical application in my world but the impetus make sure my Chandler TG-2 has the summing mod installed and to get an API 3124MB+ so I would never have to sacrafice tom mic summing again.

Personally, I hated the TL Audio desk. I thought it sounded like ass, lacked headroom, lacked clarity, lacked "depth", barked at me like it's frequency response was somewhat limited and I was experiencing unwanted phase shift through the audio spectrum... found that the more signal I ran through it and that the harder I pushed the bass the thinner sounding the desk got [which is a distinct indication of an inadequate power supply]. I wouldn't recommend the thing to an enemy... but that is probably just me, and I'm a snot.

FWIW, a guy I know emailed me:

I am selling my 40 channel Speck M72 board. It has 8 busses, 8 aux channels and 8 stereo fx returns in addition to it's 40 inputs that are split up into 24"primary" inputs, 8 "secondary" inputs and 8 "tertiary" inputs. It is about 40" wide and will come with a custom welded steel stand and all harnesses and 3 patch bays all wired up and ready to go. Furthermore it has been extensively modded and upgraded with improved capacitors and IC chips throughout and the 24 primary channels, sends and returns, the 8 stereo fx returns and the program inserts and program out are all balanced (the board ships unbalanced). I am asking $8500 for the entire wired up package

His name is "Larry" and his email address is: vavvy2@aol.com

I think this is a hell of a better deal than any TL Audio piece of shit, but in the end it is your call. I am not selling the fore mentioned desk, I have nothing to do with the sale of the fore mentioned desk, I stand to gain NOTHING from the sale of the fore mentioned desk.

I have known the seller for well over a decade, know him to be an excellent writer, a great engineer, and one of the most honest people I have ever met. That is the end of my endorsement of the sale, seller, product, etc.... the only thing I would add is that if it were my money going for a new console my money would be leaning in that direction a hell of a lot sooner than toward a TL Audio anything.

As always, YMMV.

[AMIEL]

Hey Fletcher!
if is not too much to ask:
why don't you list gear that you love!

a desk, mics, preamps, compressor, monitors..that will be so interesting!

I respect you opinion .

[Brad_Wood]

I have had an M3 since 2002 & have found it very useful as a line mixer, taking stereo & mono stems out of Protools for mixdown. It colors the sound in a way I like & the addition of the drive/overdrive lights on each channel help keep track of headroom. I've mixed almost every record I've produced since 2002 on it & recently have been thinking of buying something else or improving the power supply, but direct comparison to the Chandler mixer & Neve 8816 were disappointing. I plan on trying some more boxes (there are so many!), but for now I am getting good results from the M3, unlike most contributors to this thread. If you can, get these boxes on loan from a dealer or friend & fire them up. Its too much money to buy unheard. Good luck!


Best- Brad

[Labs]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

work on it.

Hey Fletcher. Please check this out if you have the time. I would love to get some info. http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=97167


Nice post here btw. Ill be staying away from that TLA shit.

Gustav

[studjo]

I like my blue channels strips for what they are - cheap tube stuff.

Jo

[Traxx]

Originally Posted by Labs

Hey Fletcher. Please check this out if you have the time. I would love to get some info. http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=97167


Nice post here btw. Ill be staying away from that TLA shit.

Gustav

I guess b/c someone says a brand product sounds like shit it sounds like shit...figures

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by 8068

On the M72 stay away from this over priced piece it's just Fletcher with his normal sales pitch typical.

Busted... as usual, I'm totally full of shit.

Good thing there are wonderful anonymous protectors of youth like 8068 to keep it real!!

Unfortunately I don't work in sales... but I do own part of a company where people buy things so that alone should be reason for indictment... especially when I mention that I have absolutely nothing to gain from the sale of that desk... that should send up big red flags and skyrockets!!!

[Matt Syson]

Hi
Diverging slightly from topic, excuse me.
Referring to inadequate supplies.
The power supply is not an issue when you are considering a mix desk. Since the power supply for the individual circuits comes from the capacitors in close (electrical) proximity to the amplifier stage. Certainly at a module or 'strip' level, but usually on circuit 'blocks' like the mic amp, EQ and routing sections, all the supply rails are decoupled from each other with several ohms of resistance typically between a stage and the actual supply. The consequence of this is that as long as the power supply unit supplies DC with no significant ripple or variation and does not catch fire in use then it is not inadequate. A desk power consumption is largely constant with may be a 20% increase when many channels get loud at the same time. You would not be able to see discernable audio signals at the power supply unit.
Unfortunately I have not had the chance to actually play with a TLA desk since the last one I saw was not connected to suitable monitors or sources.
Matt S

[Brad_Wood]

My post may have been misleading. The power supply issue I have is the relatively bad connection between console & power cable provided by TLAudio. It works, but is flimsy. I have a wiring fiend friend who is pondering various additional mods that might be useful, but I'm not sure I want to put more money into it. Still a daily user- Gearslutz opinions be damned!

Best- Brad

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

Interesting. I heard one a while ago... had to work on it. Got some relatively decent tracks in spite of it, but in all fairness I did bring serious racks of outboard gear for the most part I ran nothing but returns back through the thing, but did use 6 channels to sum 6 mics to 3 tracks for rack toms... a non-critical application in my world but the impetus make sure my Chandler TG-2 has the summing mod installed and to get an API 3124MB+ so I would never have to sacrafice tom mic summing again.

Personally, I hated the TL Audio desk. I thought it sounded like ass, lacked headroom, lacked clarity, lacked "depth", barked at me like it's frequency response was somewhat limited and I was experiencing unwanted phase shift through the audio spectrum... found that the more signal I ran through it and that the harder I pushed the bass the thinner sounding the desk got [which is a distinct indication of an inadequate power supply]. I wouldn't recommend the thing to an enemy... but that is probably just me, and I'm a snot.

FWIW, a guy I know emailed me:

I am selling my 40 channel Speck M72 board. It has 8 busses, 8 aux channels and 8 stereo fx returns in addition to it's 40 inputs that are split up into 24"primary" inputs, 8 "secondary" inputs and 8 "tertiary" inputs. It is about 40" wide and will come with a custom welded steel stand and all harnesses and 3 patch bays all wired up and ready to go. Furthermore it has been extensively modded and upgraded with improved capacitors and IC chips throughout and the 24 primary channels, sends and returns, the 8 stereo fx returns and the program inserts and program out are all balanced (the board ships unbalanced). I am asking $8500 for the entire wired up package

His name is "Larry" and his email address is: vavvy2@aol.com

I think this is a hell of a better deal than any TL Audio piece of shit, but in the end it is your call. I am not selling the fore mentioned desk, I have nothing to do with the sale of the fore mentioned desk, I stand to gain NOTHING from the sale of the fore mentioned desk.

I have known the seller for well over a decade, know him to be an excellent writer, a great engineer, and one of the most honest people I have ever met. That is the end of my endorsement of the sale, seller, product, etc.... the only thing I would add is that if it were my money going for a new console my money would be leaning in that direction a hell of a lot sooner than toward a TL Audio anything.

As always, YMMV.

Hey Fletcher is it Larry Kleinman?

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by never174

Does anyone have any experiance with the M3 of the new M4 console? I'm curious about the sound.

doesn't nobtwiddler have one?

[Riccardo]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

doesn't nobtwiddler have one?

I think he owns a VTC, not an M4.

[heyman]

Better yet, here is a place that is selling a Speck M72 -40 input console for

$2999.00 ...

http://www.gearorphanage.com/product...roducts_id=179

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Matt Syson

Referring to inadequate supplies.
The power supply is not an issue when you are considering a mix desk. Since the power supply for the individual circuits comes from the capacitors in close (electrical) proximity to the amplifier stage. Certainly at a module or 'strip' level, but usually on circuit 'blocks' like the mic amp, EQ and routing sections, all the supply rails are decoupled from each other with several ohms of resistance typically between a stage and the actual supply. The consequence of this is that as long as the power supply unit supplies DC with no significant ripple or variation and does not catch fire in use then it is not inadequate. A desk power consumption is largely constant with may be a 20% increase when many channels get loud at the same time. You would not be able to see discernable audio signals at the power supply unit.
Unfortunately I have not had the chance to actually play with a TLA desk since the last one I saw was not connected to suitable monitors or sources.
Matt S

I disagree completely. The power supply is the single most important part of the console and they are not all created equal. If I want to have a good idea how a console sounds, I'll take a look at the power supply or pick it up - if I can lift it. Grounding and proper power bussing in the power supply and console itself are the first things most console mod guys look at - at least after changing IC's which anybody can do.

[Matt Syson]

Hi


I disagree completely. The power supply is the single most important part of the console and they are not all created equal. If I want to have a good idea how a console sounds, I'll take a look at the power supply or pick it up - if I can lift it.
What a superficial way to look at things! A switchmode supply can pour out incredible amounts of current and be easily carried, but this fact is IRELEVANT to the sound of a console.
Grounding and proper power bussing in the power supply and console itself are the first things most console mod guys look at - at least after changing IC's which anybody can do.
Yes I agree with this bit in parts. If the circuit layout and grounding are not up to scratch then swapping ICs won't make much difference.
You have totally missed the point that if you have a 10 ohm resistor in series with the supply to a given circuit (most desks are strewn with them as fuses / isolation) then the beefiness of the supply box is of NO importance as even with a short circuit the maximum current would be 180mA, easily managed by a string of AAA batteries or equally, a couple of truck batteries. The AMPLIFIER can't tell the difference. Where the local supply capacitors get their ground reference from is all important as this is where the amplifier stage gets its current. If the grounding is incorrect it will pick up modulation from other circuits which is where the problems begin.
To return to topic. I have heard that a guy who was using one felt thet the 'warming' effect was perhaps a little too much so that one pass was sufficient and pleasant but to record then mixdown was getting a bit too warm.
Matt S

[Fletcher]

Many modern switching supplies can be made so their switching as fewer ill effects than the earlier switching supplies, which frankly sounded like complete ass... however, when it comes to console supplies an overspec'ed linear PSU is still the way to go.

First off, there is invariably a distortion spike in the power signal at the switch point which is noticable in the audio. Some may indeed have the headroom to deliver adequate current on demand but will have the spike at the switch point none the less. They work great in converters where you can clock the PSU switching from the converter's internal clocking system for the least amount of negative effect, they can work well in outboard gear where your current on demand expectations rarely run above an amp... but in a console where you will have so many "requests" for current on demand only "overspec'ed linear supplies" are up to the task from what I have seen/heard to this point.

While a circuit may run at 250ma when faced with a complex bass wave or sharp transient the circuit may often draw as much as an amp in a rather instantaneous manner in order to form that bass wave and/or pass that transient. Grounding is indeed absolutely essential to the make up of a console so that once the circuit has requisitioned the additional power it has a way to effectively drain that power after it's use.

All systems within a console are interdependent and of equal importance... over spec'd power supplies without a well functioning ground scheme is a waste of time... a well functioning ground scheme without proper power being supplied to the desk is a waste of time. Seeing as power supply and ground drain work very much like the engine and suspension in a car... the meat and potatos... once you have attained a solid running platform you can now begin to examine issues like channel headroom and linear phase response through the audio spectrum... from there you can start to visit the cool little feature bells and whistles like EQ's, aux sends, automation, yada, yada, yada... but the fact of the matter is that all console sonics start with the power supply and the ground scheme... the rest is all "features".

In an unrelated retort, no the seller's name is not Larry Kleinman... and while "heyman" may have been found for <$3k I don't believe it includes the wiring and custom stand that the other desk has. I know I have about $14+k into the wiring of my studio... and while I'm sure that is far more comprehensive than the wiring available with the Speck desk it is still a meaningful consideration from my perspective... as always, YMMV.

[bee]

Originally Posted by heyman

Better yet, here is a place that is selling a Speck M72 -40 input console for

$2999.00 ...

http://www.gearorphanage.com/product...roducts_id=179

I believe Michael Brivadsky of Russian Recording bought that one. I have one for sale if anyones interested...send me a PM.

[dlmorley]

In general, I end up spending as much for cables as my consoles.
Never intend to, just ends up that way