Trident A Range

[compasspnt]

Originally Posted by ToneLux
I remember selling Lenny a 96 input API Legacy, with winged ends that Terry Manning used for "5", which I thought was his best record. It was truly Lenny, not like the others where it seemed that he was trying to channel another artist through himself. 5 seemed different and original....To me that was his best period. Terry did a great job bringing out Lenny instead of War or some other past sound. We cut the 96 down by 32 channels, and he moved it to Florida. Apparently from what I heard, Henry didn't like it and he sold it. It's funny, because the Robbs, myself and Andy Johns demoed one at Cherokee and we all felt that it was very close from the top end down, but the Legacy had the transformerish low end. They ended up buying one for Studio A and moved the A range into a different room. That console ended up at Cello.

Just to clarify, the Lenny '5' album was not recorded on that API Legacy, because I ordered from PW AFTER '5' was finished.

We tracked 95% of the album through API preamps however, but they were outboard ones.

Recorded onto Protools (early one!) through Apogee A>D converters.

Lots of Lucas Limiting Amplifier compression and Lucas valve EQ.

Then I mixed through a Neve V3 (no stereo compression) onto 1/2" tape in Compass Point A, and it was mastered by Ted Jensen and me @ Sterling.

Best regards.

Terry

EDIT: And yes, I surely agree it was the high point for LK! Ha ha!

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

Originally Posted by compasspnt

Just to clarify, the Lenny '5' album was not recorded on that API Legacy, because I ordered from PW AFTER '5' was finished.

We tracked 95% of the album through API preamps however, but they were outboard ones.

Recorded onto Protools (early one!) through Apogee A>D converters.

Lots of Lucas Limiting Amplifier compression and Lucas valve EQ.

Then I mixed through a Neve V3 (no stereo compression) onto 1/2" tape in Compass Point A, and it was mastered by Ted Jensen and me @ Sterling.

Best regards.

Terry

EDIT: And yes, I surely agree it was the high point for LK! Ha ha!

Yup listened to it the other day and thought 'wow' does not sound like a PT mix album but rather an 'Album' like from yore. Nice tones and tunes.

Wiggy

[Clive Kavan]

Originally Posted by studiochap

No, this is not cool.....

"According to Barry Porter there was only one Trident A range ever built (The Original Trident Studio A Range Console), everything else was a bad clone."

Someone has apparently seriously misunderstood something here...

I somehow missed the original post, back in February. But I've read it now, and also Alan's riposte, and here's my own 2c worth, which basically endorses Malcolm's comments relayed by Alan.

I was directly involved in the production of at least the first 8 "A" Range consoles built after the original Trident studio St Anne's Court board. The "bad clone" thing is just rubbish - period! From memory the original studio A Range had 24-way McMurdo Red Range connectors on the channels - the production ones had 32-way versions to cope with extra grounds etc. Malcolm can confirm if my recollection here is accurate.

During the time when I was personally responsible for the construction of the A Range frames and modules, I was in and out of the R & D lab all the time liaising with Barry and Jeff King ( the other R & D guy...) about details of the construction. Constant improvements were being made to the original design ( which Barry regarded as the prototype...) and in terms of the grounding etc., I can give specific examples, such as the direct ground wires run to the main ground buss from each individual mix amp input ground on the later consoles after the original one, and ditto the individual case earth grounds. On the production A ( and also B) consoles, the grounding for the pots on the module fascia panels was greatly improved, and ( from memory and it's getting on for 40 years ago....) some internal module wiring was changed to screened cable. Also the "St Anne's Court" console did not have screened busses - they were TC wire busses running along the edge conns. The later consoles had screened cable busses looped along the edge conns. The original cabling from the modules to the fader connectors was unscreened, the later consoles all had screened cabling, and 4K7 resistors were installed in line with the fader wipers to stop instability. Some of these mods were introduced after Barry had flown to Tokyo to install the first "production" A Range at Crown Records.

In fact, when test engineer Barry Spencer left the North Rd factory and went to work at Trident studios, he found that there were serious issues on the A Range prototype ( which he modded and thereby fixed..) such as hum on the monitors at a level of -35dB. None of those issues were ones he'd ever encountered on the production A Ranges.

In the many day-to-day work conversations I had with Barry Porter over a period of several years, I never ever once heard him express any view that the production A Ranges were anything but a major improvement on the original studio console, based as it was on the " How To Construct A Stereo Mixing Console" ( or similarly-titled..) article by ( I think...) Williamson in Studio Sound or Practical Wireless magazine.

OK. this is my final info on this post...

Barry never clained that all of the consoles were bad clones, at least that is to the best of my knowledge. We didn't like the screened buss cabling as it increases RF due to the capacitance of the screened cable and the nature of virtual earth mixing systems. He is right in that assertion, and I have improved several desks and eliminated RF by removing screened cable. This may be counterintuitive, but it is true. Just think of the circuit.
Barry was a little crabby about early designs as he had improved his design capability towards the end of his life. What I havce said previously about the original transformers stands. If you don't believe me, try it and see. The Trident A range is prone to RF. This is partially bvecause of these transformers and partially because of the near-instability of the mix amp. Barry made a new design, which I have somewhere, but no-one was interested. It is unconditionally stable and is a more complex design with a better noise floor and bandwidth. If anyone is interested, contact me and I will be glad to send them the circuit.
Some at Trident would assert that Barry was jealous of their sucess and that he left Trident under a cloud. I do know the truth of this assertion and it is not true. Neither was Barry jealous. He had a career with Raindirk and Cadac amongst others. He was a happy bunny!

Clive Kavan

[tubehead]

Originally Posted by Clive Kavan

OK. this is my final info on this post...

Barry never clained that all of the consoles were bad clones, at least that is to the best of my knowledge. We didn't like the screened buss cabling as it increases RF due to the capacitance of the screened cable and the nature of virtual earth mixing systems. He is right in that assertion, and I have improved several desks and eliminated RF by removing screened cable. This may be counterintuitive, but it is true. Just think of the circuit.
Barry was a little crabby about early designs as he had improved his design capability towards the end of his life. What I havce said previously about the original transformers stands. If you don't believe me, try it and see. The Trident A range is prone to RF. This is partially bvecause of these transformers and partially because of the near-instability of the mix amp. Barry made a new design, which I have somewhere, but no-one was interested. It is unconditionally stable and is a more complex design with a better noise floor and bandwidth. If anyone is interested, contact me and I will be glad to send them the circuit.
Some at Trident would assert that Barry was jealous of their sucess and that he left Trident under a cloud. I do know the truth of this assertion and it is not true. Neither was Barry jealous. He had a career with Raindirk and Cadac amongst others. He was a happy bunny!

Clive Kavan

Hi Clive, just to be clear...

What I had originally posted... I literally was typing as Henry Hirsch (sitting next to me on the couch in the control room at that moment) was dictating to me his experience with his A Range console, Barry Porter, and You fixing his desk prior to it being sold. Henry wanted his point of view / experience made part of the record or discussion for reference; there was a lot of confusion as to what was used on which Lenny Kravitz record.

Of course selling an A range to go Helios is not too shabby either way.

[Clive Kavan]

Originally Posted by tubehead

Hi Clive, just to be clear...

What I had originally posted... I literally was typing as Henry Hirsch (sitting next to me on the couch in the control room at that moment) was dictating to me his experience with his A Range console, Barry Porter, and You fixing his desk prior to it being sold. Henry wanted his point of view / experience made part of the record or discussion for reference; there was a lot of confusion as to what was used on which Lenny Kravitz record.

Of course selling an A range to go Helios is not too shabby either way.

I have always thought that the Helios desks were some of the best sounding desks ever designed. There is a transparancy and clarity that is not matched in almost any other desk. I love to work on them, as Henry knows. We met when Barry and I worked on Lenny's Helios!
The only desk to compare would be a CADAC. They have the nicest mic pre's of all of the desks. That, together with balaced mixing makes them unbeatable.
Give my regards to Henry. Clive.

[Dave_Amels]

Hi Clive,

Nice to see you here. Long time no speak.

I spent 7 years with this one:

http://www.bombfactory.com/studio/img/control6a.jpg

They sure can sound good. Not my favorite channel EQs but the mic pre is somewhat similar to Helios.

Best,

/Dave

[tubehead]

Originally Posted by Dave_Amels

Hi Clive,

Nice to see you here. Long time no speak.

I spent 7 years with this one:

http://www.bombfactory.com/studio/img/control6a.jpg

They sure can sound good. Not my favorite channel EQs but the mic pre is somewhat similar to Helios.

Best,

/Dave

Hey Dave! Great job on Henry's Helios by the way. -Adam

[Dave_Amels]

Originally Posted by tubehead

Hey Dave! Great job on Henry's Helios by the way. -Adam

Thanks. I can't think of a better desk in use in a studio now.

[rectifried]

Originally Posted by Dave_Amels

Hi Clive,

Nice to see you here. Long time no speak.

I spent 7 years with this one:

http://www.bombfactory.com/studio/img/control6a.jpg

They sure can sound good. Not my favorite channel EQs but the mic pre is somewhat similar to Helios.

Best,

/Dave

I bought the V78s in the pic from your studio... Brian Kehew was helping out..second ones Ive had with the Dan Alexander rack
I have an ES8 as well now... really great

[BrianK]

I have always been curious about the Trident desk history. I've used three different ones and found them unique and pleasing. One of the odd things is the Sound Techniques desks (there from 1967 or so) were called "the A Range" in the '60s! This is what Trident studios had into the 1970s era, and all mixes until about 1974/75 from Trident Studios were done on the Sound Techniques in the mix room there.

I've never found any evidence (yet) to suggest any Trident A-Range installed earlier than 1972/73, although claims are often made. I cannot find schematics or blueprints showing design or engineering changes. The first known photos of the one at Trident are from 1973 or so. (See Dave Hentschel's website, though the album he's working on is from 1973, so the stated date of 1971 is about 2 years too early.)

Hopefully, someone will come up with some harder dates, with proof. I find the speculation on the Trident A-Range oddly loose and without clear documentation, just memory. Let me know if anyone has anything to post on this!

(To scare matters, there were a few desks that share A-Range features and B-Range circuits that are hard to tell by looking!)

[klett]

Hi... I am guilty of not going back to read this whole thread but here is a list of Trident Consoles that I wrote up some time ago as an explainer of what Trident consoles are what...

Trident consoles: the John Klett summary

A Range -*1970,*First Trident console made initially for in-house use at Trident Studios, split*monitor*design, 16 and 24 buss versions, all discrete class A circuitry. Not many were made, perhaps 11 to 13 produced by Trident. Cherokee Studios in L.A. purchased the first A Range consoles that came to the US and the story is that they made a copy or copies - there are some very good clones of A Range modules floating around that were made in the 70's (by component dating) and these are attributed to Cherokee. Parts of the A Range consoles suck but a well restored one can be awesome. The Micpre/EQ is quite good although the mic pre (and other amplifiers in the desk) went through various changes and updates as the techs at Trident played with gain and compensation to keep them quiet and free of oscillation (most of the time) - everyone was learning. Few completely intact A Range desks exist. Several have been broken up for the modules. At least one the remaining desks is made from two different consoles each having different buss modules. There are probably five or six working A Range consoles left on the planet.

B Range -*1973,*Second split*monitor*design console, reduced feature set from A Range but based on same general architecture and many of the same circuit blocks (but not in EQ). It came in*4, 8 and 16 buss versions, all discrete and class A circuitry. More of these were made than A Range consoles. Generally the only good thing about B Range consoles today would be the input modules with mic pre and EQ and even that is questionable given the condition they are in today - the controls and switches are generally past cleaning so a tech who cares and wants these things to be reliable would be replacing all the controls. This is nearly always NOT a good Trident console to buy and try to restore as a console.

Fleximix -*1977,*Live sound console, 8+2 buss, all IC, based on 741 opamps and later ones used TL071's. This mixer was created to fill the role as the F.O.H. mixer for Queen. It was a great portable table top modular console in it's day with limited functionality for studio application but it was great live desk when compared to everything else that was available at the time. The Flexi was*similar to Soundcraft Series One in feature set but the Flexi modular and flexible in configuration while the Series One was not. Fleximix consoles turn up with some regularity although many of them are being bought up for their mic input transformers, the ZUTT012a. This transformer was in all the early Trident desks. A functionally equivalent part is now manufactured as a model 7456 by Sowter and selling new for around £50 UK... and that part does not sound anything like a Zutt.

TSM -*1979,*First Quad console, split*monitor*design, 24 buss 32 monitor return standard, all IC based mostly on selected TL071 opamps: *This is a really cool console and ranks among the best of the Trident IC consoles in terms of flexibility and feature set... *These are old consoles today and need work but they are restorable. *The split design makes them huge and restoration can take time. The patchbays on early TSM consoles used plastic PC mounted jacks in the patch-field. Later on they changed to a PC mount metal long-frame jack that was better but the patchbays in TSM and nearly every Trident desk are going to be problematic after so many years. Some of the short faders used in the EQ's and monitor remix section are not easy to find. They are an odd size so unless you find NOS (low probability) custom parts will have to be ordered.

Series 80 -*1980,*Stereo console, split monitor design,*all IC based mostly on selected TL071 opamps: This is the first of the 80 Series desks and arguably one of the most*successful*mid-sized non-recall console products ever made. *The early ones had transistor followers added to the IC output amplifiers to lower output impedance. *Over time the series was upgraded - 5534 opamps came into use in mic pre's and buss amp locations, the transistor followerconsoles were dropped in later production but could be retrofitted up until the C version when the circuit boards were re-laid.

Tri-Mix -*1981,*Stereo console, split*monitor*design, rear panel patching, mobile,*no stand: *This was a stripped-down Series 80 with less of everything. There were some gain structure and headroom issues in the first ones and generally this product missed the mark. *It was sort of a table top console but too big and too expensive for the feature set it carried... *too big and too expensive on the one hand and not enough console on the other. *There are Trimix consoles floating around and they are good... *these are more of a marketing failure than and technical one.

Series 80B - 1983: as Series 80 above. *The monitor remix section was revamped and was delivered with features that were mods in the original series so the bus faders and rotary monitor remix level pots could flip via a switch and the monitor remix section could fold into the stereo bus. *The Series 80B is the best of the Series 80 line in some ways...

Series 70 -*1983,*Stereo console, split*monitor*design, Tuchel connectors, patchbay and*stand: *This is what the Trimix should have been and in fact with some minor mods a Trimix module will fit into a Series 70 frame. *The Series 70 had 16 busses and more features than a Trimix... *it also had a patch and really was more like a small Series 80 desk.

TIL*"Trident In Line" -*1984, Stereo console, first in-line monitor console from Trident: First with narrow module width (relative to Series 70,80 etc) and full channel strip modules. *Few of these were made... *too much stuff in too small of a space.

Series 65 - 1984, stereo desk, connectors on the back no patch: first of the truly successful table top consoles from Trident

Series 75 - 1985,*stereo desk, connectors on the back with patch: pretty much a 65 with larger meters and an integrated patchbay.

Trident Di-An - 1986, a fully automated digitally controlled analog console, mixes stored on 3-1/2" floppies. *Maybe fewer than ten were made... some were still in use in the oh-oh's and were reported to sound amazing... but not sure what that means any more. *The DiAn is one of the things that killed Trident... *it was too costly to develop and did not catch on.

Series 80C -*1987: as Series 80B above. *More features added and the inside of the modules got busier. *These are good consoles but some of the features, when actuated, can overburden certain amplifiers and muddy up the sound so some of the IC's concerned changed to 5534's, which reduced, but did not eliminate the problems... in regular use this was not anything an operator using the console normally would really encounter but it is something to be aware of... of course these consoles are less old so they are generally less beat up.

Series 16/24 - 1989,*stereo desks, connectors on the back: basically "upgraded" Series 65/75... also described as a 'hybrid between the Series 65 and Series 75, utilizing Series 75 modules in a Series 65 frame"

Vector 432 - 1989,*the second in-line monitor console to be designed by Trident: *This is*Trident trying to answer the SSL 4K... it had*32 multitrack busses, 4 stereo busses and a choice of 4 modules including a stereo input with both stereo mic and line inputs, there were also version with LCRS pan for film mix applications. *These were feature-packed in-line monitor desks that ran pretty hot. *There are few around today however if in kept in good shape, recapped and clean, they should sound quite good and offer most of what an SSL or V-Series would. *Recall may have been an option but that would be proprietary and probably running on a computer that you can't get parts for.

Series 90 - 1992,*offered *with a choice of either Trident’s dual*VCA*fader automation or moving fader/VCA*(SSL Ultimation-like)*fader automation. Both systems include 12 automated switches per channel and machine control. The Ninety is a 24 bus console available in either 40 or 56 channel frame sizes.. There was one in Nashville last I heard (2005 maybe)

Ventura 85 - 1994,*developed to fill the niche below the Ninety series and is available in 32,40 and 48 input versions with an optional automation package.*Never saw one...

and then it fell apart and you had the father of something or other doing this and that and people fighting over nonsense...

Malcolm went on to make MTA consoles... and now PMI owns the marque and Malcolm is happily working away on the Trident 82 console... which I have had demo modules from and... well... there is no Trident console where you can't point and something or another and complain about as a tech but it has a good feature set... eight sends... a nice sweep filter added to the EQ... it's is worth looking at but WAY more money than a used 80... I have a client looking at a big 82 and it would not make me sad at all if he bought that, as opposed to other supposedly Trident descended things...


anyway - hope that was fun

[studiochap]

Just a quick addition to the Trident types. My friend Rob McClymont in London owned for some years a Trident console which was basically an inline version of a Series 80, and I maintained it, and did a couple of weeks engineering sessions on it at one point.

From memory it was a 32-channel board, and had the master modules from the Series 80, and same type of patchbay jacks on pcbs ( The bottom row consisted of jacks soldered to Vero constructor board!)

Never seen one before or since, and can't remember actually having seen a type name on it, or on the manual, which was a standard Trident manual with the factory schematics. Hence it may well have been a prototype. It sounded exactly the same as an 80 I recorded on for some years.

There was also the little Trident VFM (= Value For Money...!) console from the 1980s. I've only ever seen one , and from memory it was in a kind of purple colour (not the A-Range aubergine ), and I believe aimed at the home studio market.

Cheers,

Gwyn

[Jack Luminous]

Very good post, worth quoting !!! Thanks a lot !

Originally Posted by klett

Hi... I am guilty of not going back to read this whole thread but here is a list of Trident Consoles that I wrote up some time ago as an explainer of what Trident consoles are what...

Trident consoles: the John Klett summary

A Range -*1970,*First Trident console made initially for in-house use at Trident Studios, split*monitor*design, 16 and 24 buss versions, all discrete class A circuitry. Not many were made, perhaps 11 to 13 produced by Trident. Cherokee Studios in L.A. purchased the first A Range consoles that came to the US and the story is that they made a copy or copies - there are some very good clones of A Range modules floating around that were made in the 70's (by component dating) and these are attributed to Cherokee. Parts of the A Range consoles suck but a well restored one can be awesome. The Micpre/EQ is quite good although the mic pre (and other amplifiers in the desk) went through various changes and updates as the techs at Trident played with gain and compensation to keep them quiet and free of oscillation (most of the time) - everyone was learning. Few completely intact A Range desks exist. Several have been broken up for the modules. At least one the remaining desks is made from two different consoles each having different buss modules. There are probably five or six working A Range consoles left on the planet.

B Range -*1973,*Second split*monitor*design console, reduced feature set from A Range but based on same general architecture and many of the same circuit blocks (but not in EQ). It came in*4, 8 and 16 buss versions, all discrete and class A circuitry. More of these were made than A Range consoles. Generally the only good thing about B Range consoles today would be the input modules with mic pre and EQ and even that is questionable given the condition they are in today - the controls and switches are generally past cleaning so a tech who cares and wants these things to be reliable would be replacing all the controls. This is nearly always NOT a good Trident console to buy and try to restore as a console.

Fleximix -*1977,*Live sound console, 8+2 buss, all IC, based on 741 opamps and later ones used TL071's. This mixer was created to fill the role as the F.O.H. mixer for Queen. It was a great portable table top modular console in it's day with limited functionality for studio application but it was great live desk when compared to everything else that was available at the time. The Flexi was*similar to Soundcraft Series One in feature set but the Flexi modular and flexible in configuration while the Series One was not. Fleximix consoles turn up with some regularity although many of them are being bought up for their mic input transformers, the ZUTT012a. This transformer was in all the early Trident desks. A functionally equivalent part is now manufactured as a model 7456 by Sowter and selling new for around £50 UK... and that part does not sound anything like a Zutt.

TSM -*1979,*First Quad console, split*monitor*design, 24 buss 32 monitor return standard, all IC based mostly on selected TL071 opamps: *This is a really cool console and ranks among the best of the Trident IC consoles in terms of flexibility and feature set... *These are old consoles today and need work but they are restorable. *The split design makes them huge and restoration can take time. The patchbays on early TSM consoles used plastic PC mounted jacks in the patch-field. Later on they changed to a PC mount metal long-frame jack that was better but the patchbays in TSM and nearly every Trident desk are going to be problematic after so many years. Some of the short faders used in the EQ's and monitor remix section are not easy to find. They are an odd size so unless you find NOS (low probability) custom parts will have to be ordered.

Series 80 -*1980,*Stereo console, split monitor design,*all IC based mostly on selected TL071 opamps: This is the first of the 80 Series desks and arguably one of the most*successful*mid-sized non-recall console products ever made. *The early ones had transistor followers added to the IC output amplifiers to lower output impedance. *Over time the series was upgraded - 5534 opamps came into use in mic pre's and buss amp locations, the transistor followerconsoles were dropped in later production but could be retrofitted up until the C version when the circuit boards were re-laid.

Tri-Mix -*1981,*Stereo console, split*monitor*design, rear panel patching, mobile,*no stand: *This was a stripped-down Series 80 with less of everything. There were some gain structure and headroom issues in the first ones and generally this product missed the mark. *It was sort of a table top console but too big and too expensive for the feature set it carried... *too big and too expensive on the one hand and not enough console on the other. *There are Trimix consoles floating around and they are good... *these are more of a marketing failure than and technical one.

Series 80B - 1983: as Series 80 above. *The monitor remix section was revamped and was delivered with features that were mods in the original series so the bus faders and rotary monitor remix level pots could flip via a switch and the monitor remix section could fold into the stereo bus. *The Series 80B is the best of the Series 80 line in some ways...

Series 70 -*1983,*Stereo console, split*monitor*design, Tuchel connectors, patchbay and*stand: *This is what the Trimix should have been and in fact with some minor mods a Trimix module will fit into a Series 70 frame. *The Series 70 had 16 busses and more features than a Trimix... *it also had a patch and really was more like a small Series 80 desk.

TIL*"Trident In Line" -*1984, Stereo console, first in-line monitor console from Trident: First with narrow module width (relative to Series 70,80 etc) and full channel strip modules. *Few of these were made... *too much stuff in too small of a space.

Series 65 - 1984, stereo desk, connectors on the back no patch: first of the truly successful table top consoles from Trident

Series 75 - 1985,*stereo desk, connectors on the back with patch: pretty much a 65 with larger meters and an integrated patchbay.

Trident Di-An - 1986, a fully automated digitally controlled analog console, mixes stored on 3-1/2" floppies. *Maybe fewer than ten were made... some were still in use in the oh-oh's and were reported to sound amazing... but not sure what that means any more. *The DiAn is one of the things that killed Trident... *it was too costly to develop and did not catch on.

Series 80C -*1987: as Series 80B above. *More features added and the inside of the modules got busier. *These are good consoles but some of the features, when actuated, can overburden certain amplifiers and muddy up the sound so some of the IC's concerned changed to 5534's, which reduced, but did not eliminate the problems... in regular use this was not anything an operator using the console normally would really encounter but it is something to be aware of... of course these consoles are less old so they are generally less beat up.

Series 16/24 - 1989,*stereo desks, connectors on the back: basically "upgraded" Series 65/75... also described as a 'hybrid between the Series 65 and Series 75, utilizing Series 75 modules in a Series 65 frame"

Vector 432 - 1989,*the second in-line monitor console to be designed by Trident: *This is*Trident trying to answer the SSL 4K... it had*32 multitrack busses, 4 stereo busses and a choice of 4 modules including a stereo input with both stereo mic and line inputs, there were also version with LCRS pan for film mix applications. *These were feature-packed in-line monitor desks that ran pretty hot. *There are few around today however if in kept in good shape, recapped and clean, they should sound quite good and offer most of what an SSL or V-Series would. *Recall may have been an option but that would be proprietary and probably running on a computer that you can't get parts for.

Series 90 - 1992,*offered *with a choice of either Trident’s dual*VCA*fader automation or moving fader/VCA*(SSL Ultimation-like)*fader automation. Both systems include 12 automated switches per channel and machine control. The Ninety is a 24 bus console available in either 40 or 56 channel frame sizes.. There was one in Nashville last I heard (2005 maybe)

Ventura 85 - 1994,*developed to fill the niche below the Ninety series and is available in 32,40 and 48 input versions with an optional automation package.*Never saw one...

and then it fell apart and you had the father of something or other doing this and that and people fighting over nonsense...

Malcolm went on to make MTA consoles... and now PMI owns the marque and Malcolm is happily working away on the Trident 82 console... which I have had demo modules from and... well... there is no Trident console where you can't point and something or another and complain about as a tech but it has a good feature set... eight sends... a nice sweep filter added to the EQ... it's is worth looking at but WAY more money than a used 80... I have a client looking at a big 82 and it would not make me sad at all if he bought that, as opposed to other supposedly Trident descended things...


anyway - hope that was fun

[raal]

Originally Posted by klett

anyway - hope that was fun

GREAT POST!!!

[klett]

Originally Posted by studiochap

... inline version of a Series 80 ...

there was an in line version of the TSM made for Record Plant NY... they did various customs like that

Malcolm was always very responsive... the pull up switches on the sends were not on the early consoles going into the first original series 80 consoles but they kind of became stock after a while because people asked... transformers changed by customer demand and so on... the reason Trident was a great product was that it came out of a group of studio operations people and engineers who wanted tools to satisfy a need...

Originally Posted by studiochap

... little Trident VFM ...

oh wow I forgot about that one... wedge shaped and not modular...

making stuff cheap and good is really hard... it rarely works out

[studiochap]

Originally Posted by klett

oh wow I forgot about that one... wedge shaped and not modular...

making stuff cheap and good is really hard... it rarely works out

Having built the A and B ranges, I was actually pretty shocked when I saw the VFM, John!

Cheers,

Gwyn

[BrianK]

"A Range -*1970,*First Trident console made initially for in-house use at Trident Studios"

As Malcolm Toft (reportedly) came in sometime in 1971 and began the project to design a desk, you just cannot believe the dates and details that get thrown around. When was that Los Angeles AES with the first module? Some authentic vintage paperwork sure would be nice...

Someone must have the original, famous Trident console with those red connectors underneath, or is it defunct, as Ken Scott says?

[studiochap]

Originally Posted by BrianK

"A Range -*1970,*First Trident console made initially for in-house use at Trident Studios"

When was that Los Angeles AES with the first module? Some authentic vintage paperwork sure would be nice...

Someone must have the original, famous Trident console with those red connectors underneath, or is it defunct, as Ken Scott says?

Hi Brian, I have been racking my brains to try and remember the date of that AES in LA when the first ( and it was a mock-up...:-) channel module of the production series ( not the original first console..) was shown. Barry Porter gave me a yellow round self-adhesive sticker he brought back from that AES, on which was printed " Audio Engineers Make Better Lovers". It ended up stuck on the Helios at Berwick Street for years. If anyone remembers that AES with those ( dated..) stickers, then that would establish the year. I'm thinking it was '72 or '73. The dates are all a blur.

All the A ( and B) ranges had the McMurdo Red Range connectors. But I believe from memory that the original studio prototype had 24-way McMurdos. All the subsequent consoles had 32-way connectors.

I am positive that dealer Don Larking had the prototype from St Annes Court at one point and sold it. I think that original A range was the one in Matrix in Little Russell St near the British museum. I recorded on it several times at Matrix, and can remember having to swap out a monitor module as the bass end was non-existent on it, but I can't remember how many pins the connector had. I will ask Don Larking and see if he remembers anything about it!

All the best,

Gwyn

[BrianK]

AES - It seems it would be one of these conventions:
42nd, Los Angeles, California, USA - May 1972
40th, Los Angeles, California, USA - April 1971


Here's a photo of a Chris Darrow session working on the desk either late 72 or early 73, shows it with the window to the Left (as was the original Sound Techniques desk setup from before.) This is the earliest photo I can find of the A Range replacing the Sound Techniques.



This one is from the July 1972 article: Looks complete with 28 inputs (may be a doctored photo!):



Here are 2 desks shown (circa 1978) - one looks like the later TSM style in the main control room (after the renovation mentioned earlier) and an old A-Range in the mix room (the original? see just 8+2+1 meters!) upstairs.

[studiochap]

Originally Posted by BrianK

AES - It seems it would be one of these conventions:
42nd, Los Angeles, California, USA - May 1972
40th, Los Angeles, California, USA - April 1971





an old A-Range in the mix room (the original? see just 8+2+1 meters!) upstairs

[I

I'm thinking maybe the AES is 45th, Los Angeles, California, USA - May 1973

The A-range in the mix room is one we built specifically for that room ( maybe in 74-ish?)

Cheers,

Gwyn

[studiochap]

Just remembered something about the original "prototype" A range in St Annes Court...

From memory it had Seidel (sp?) faders...you can see them in Brian's first two pics ( the control room and the Triad brochure pic).

Subsequent A Range boards all had P & Gs.

Cheers,

Gwyn

[BrianK]

That is a clear distinction, the faders, and the desk in the first 2 pics has been confirmed as the original proto A-Range, probably from 1972-era. Ken Scott recalls doing Hunky Dory on the Sound Techniques desk, and then Ziggy on the A-Range (both mixed on the Sound Techniques upstairs).

When the studio was remodeled around 76-77, the original desk seems to have been sold to Matrix studios, and it matches quite closely in the photos, with a few changes over the years. Gwyn recalls a further connection to a gear dealer and will follow that lead...

[BrianK]

Saw an older MIX interview with Malcolm mentioning going to AES in NY with a single module. So likely it's not the L.A. edition of the event. The dates change slightly.

Chasing more details, the story is clearing up more each day. Seems a lot of people have been claiming their desk is the original prototype on websites. It would be great to nail down the history and travels of all 13/14 desks, I've got a little over half of them tracked fully so far...

[BrianK]

Originally Posted by BrianK

Ken Scott recalls doing Hunky Dory on the Sound Techniques desk, and then Ziggy on the A-Range (both mixed on the Sound Techniques upstairs).

Correction: Ziggy Stardust came close on the heels of Hunky Dory and they shared the same setup, both evidently recorded and mixed on the Sound Techniques desks there in 1971. The next album, Aladdin Sane was done in later 1972, and sometime in maybe mid-1972 seems to be when the 1st A-Range was installed at Trident... and this corresponds roughly to some of the documentation surviving. Again, mixes were usually done upstairs in the room with the remaining Sound Techniques desk, freeing up the tracking room downstairs for recording sessions.

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by klett

Originally Posted by studiochap
... little Trident VFM ...

oh wow I forgot about that one... wedge shaped and not modular...

It is modular btw!

[sctt_stone]

Hello, please humor me and bestow your A Range knowledge on to my thread.
I would love to see an accurate 500 series A Range clone.
Are there accuarate Trident A range clones?

[Dave_Amels]

Originally Posted by sctt_stone

Hello, please humor me and bestow your A Range knowledge on to my thread.
I would love to see an accurate 500 series A Range clone.
Are there accuarate Trident A range clones?

You probably couldn't fit the controls in that small of a space.

[alanhyatt]

With everything the A Range requires to be and accurate reproduction, there is just not enough room, even in a double wide 500 Module to make it so it would sound like a real A Range. We spent two years to get the 19" 2U rack to be authentic and identical to the real thing. I can't see how it can be done in a limited 500 rack to get the required voltages and current the A Range needs to make it sound right.

[Dave_Amels]

Originally Posted by alanhyatt

With everything the A Range requires to be and accurate reproduction, there is just not enough room, even in a double wide 500 Module to make it so it would sound like a real A Range. We spent two years to get the 19" 2U rack to be authentic and identical to the real thing. I can't see how it can be done in a limited 500 rack to get the required voltages and current the A Range needs to make it sound right.

That's right... There's only 32 volts available in the 500-series. The A-range uses 50 V regulated down to about 48 or so. You could use an inverter but that would probably increase the noise floor. Let's face it... There are things for which the 500-series just isn't well suited.

[alanhyatt]

Originally Posted by Dave_Amels

That's right... There's only 32 volts available in the 500-series. The A-range uses 50 V regulated down to about 48 or so. You could use an inverter but that would probably increase the noise floor. Let's face it... There are things for which the 500-series just isn't well suited.

Well said Dave!