ADL-600: Acoustic Guitar...Clip Included [1:15]

[Jeraz]

UPDATE 11/23/2006

Link is now a 320kbps stream from my emerging website:

http://www.jerazmusic.com/Songs_MP3.html

Scroll until you see "Soundchecks".

:-)

UPDATE 08/19/2006

Clips are now at the bottom of my main music page (if you are hitting this thread off a search and are interested, you'll need to click on the music link from my featured music page on SoundClick). I will keep them there for a few months. I know that when I was auditioning preamps, it was very helpful to hear different clips with different mics and scenarios. :-)

************

UPDATE 08/12/2006

For anyone still interested, I updated the clip on my SoundClick site (see SIG) so that now the best example of the ADL-600 recording is first, then John Hardy M-1, then John Hardy M-1 with FMR RNC compressor.

Setup for all is the same. The RNC was recorded at the same time as the straight Hardy track, but running the RNC as an insert off the FF800, and routing with the FF800 DSP mixer so that recording went to two separate tracks, one with the RNC in the chain, and one without. Link is the same but is now renamed. Other than the RNC track, no EQ, 'verb or comp. was used.

If you download the 320kbps, you will hear a HUGE difference compared to the 128 stream.

Best,

Mark

************

UPDATE 08/08/2006

There is a new clip up at the top of my SoundClick page (ADL-600 GTR Test/Behind the Heart Sketch) I left the old one for comparison. With this new one, I used suggestions from danasti on recording. The results are remarkable in their difference. Again, best results are the download.

The clip has a series of sessions, each done with a different setting on the ADL-600, as you listen through, this is the order:

1. GAIN=35dB; TRIM=Full Clockwise, IMP.=1500 Ohms
2. GAIN=55dB; TRIM=Full Counterclockwise; IMP.=1500 Ohms
3. GAIN=45dB; TRIM=Full Counterclockwise; IMP.=1500 Ohms (recorded at much lower actual level and brought up with gain in the DAW!)
4. GAIN=35dB; TRIM=Full Clockwise; IMP.=300 Ohms (Note difference in bass and highs!)
5. GAIN=55dB; TRIM=Full Counterclockwise; Imp.=300 Ohms

there is NO PROCESSING of any kind in these sessions. This was recorded with the same mics and equipment as the original; same signal path, but no compression or reverb.

Comments welcome...

Best,

Mark

****************************

Hello all...

I am wondering if any of you would mind helping out here.

Recently I took possesion of a Presonus ADL-600 for evaluation. There are some great things about this box, and some not-so-great things, but you have probably seen and heard many opinions and reviews. This thread is to engage the ears and minds here—if some can spare the time—in a reality check.

To set the backdrop, here is my aim: to get an acoustic guitar sound that is a nice balance of "big'; "clear"; with clean high end and tight, detailed bass; that can pass through moderate compression, eq and reverb of modest quality and still retain character and impact; and after all this sit in the mix well. No, I am not asking for much...LOL

So, here is a clip of something that comes CLOSE for me on my monitors on this box. If possible, I would like some opinions, and these may include alternative preamp suggestions (I am looking at D.A.V and Grace Designs right now...my idea is something can come from the pre-amp and some from the mix to achieve my goal).

Personally, I don't care for the high end of this ADL-600...it seems a bit distorted, but again, this is a reality check. Oh, and comments like this "This sounds like @ss", by themselves, won't help me much, so if you hear that, please explain further.

The clip is at the top of my SoundClick link below. Please download the 320kbps clip. I don't like any mp3s, but the 128K stream is much worse than the 320-->Guitar Improv. #2. I am doing it this way because direct links to clips at SoundClick don't always work.

Signal Path:

Matched pair of small format condenser mics--->Presonus ADL-600--->RME Fireface 800-->SONAR PE (88.2/24-bit, 64-bit float internal processing with multi-processor enabled-->rBrain gearboxed to 44.1/24-->Samplitude Pro 8.31 (for final EQ and mixdown to MP3)

Oh, and I am doing it this way, because this is how most people are going to hear my guitar through whatever preamp I settle on as my main one...an mp3 on some download site fuuck . It is what it is.

Bottom line: I am deciding whether to return this box for good, or give it another go. Your involvement here will help my perspective as I decide.

Thanks in advance for those who listen...

Best,

Mark

[Acoustic Cloud]

Mark,

soundclick no load...

[Jeraz]

Originally Posted by Acoustic Cloud

Mark,

soundclick no load...

Hmmm...I will check...just tried and it is working great here...gotta click the down facing arrow next to the song to download...might have been a temporary glitch...thanks for trying!

Best,

Mark

[Acoustic Cloud]

was able to save it now, seemed like site was down.

I like the clarity overall, the percussives were a bit too spikey to may tastes over the the whole clip though. None of the chordal bits went to mush however, which is hard to defeat with some pres-mics on acoustic. I Like the fade-out effect.

I think its a nice setup, maybe try some OH on the stereo? Maybe XY OH stereo?
You may have tried everything, like I have !! LOL!!

Also, watch the sniffs!! I always get some creeping in when I forget!

[Jeraz]

Originally Posted by Acoustic Cloud

was able to save it now, seemed like site was down.

I like the clarity overall, the percussives were a bit too spikey to may tastes over the the whole clip though. None of the chordal bits went to mush however, which is hard to defeat with some pres-mics on acoustic. I Like the fade-out effect.

I think its a nice setup, maybe try some OH on the stereo? Maybe XY OH stereo?
You may have tried everything, like I have !! LOL!!

Also, watch the sniffs!! I always get some creeping in when I forget!

Hey thanks—good suggestions—especially on the breathing—LOL...I figured it's a test...what the heck... No, I have NOT tried everything, and I think that I just might take a Large condenser and put it overhead...good idea...a bit embarrassed that I haven't thought of that...dammit, Jim, I am a songwriter, not an engineer! (only Star Trek fans will get that one).

Mark

[Acoustic Cloud]

I find that overheads lose the soundhole proximity, and you can just bust one right above it. EspeciaLLY A ldc. I have never liked the 45 degree at the 12th fret/neck joint thing....it may be a good place for a mic, to avoid any eq-ing, but thats not where your ears are.

Its a good thing to do OH, like a drumset (stereo or mono) and slowly bring the mic downward/over after each take if needed. This gives me a better idea of where sweet spots sit.

Your clip sounds like a nice wood acoustic though, and some parts real nice. It may sound stupid to say, but some people record high dollar acoustic takes that sound like "plastic"... or "glass"...or even worse, "mmfmmbmmfmmb"...

[danasti]

Originally Posted by Jeraz

Signal Path:

Matched pair of small format condenser mics--->Presonus ADL-600--->RME Fireface 800-->SONAR PE (88.2/24-bit, 64-bit float internal processing with multi-processor enabled-->rBrain gearboxed to 44.1/24-->Samplitude Pro 8.31 (for final EQ and mixdown to MP3)

Mark -

Hey, I have a few suggestions to help you out with this process. First tell me what mics you are using and post up some photos of the room. Also do you know the impedence of the mics and the impedence you are using on the amp. Sometimes it's not best to "match" them (i.e. 150ohm/150ohm) ... I really wish the ADL had higher impedence settings. 2 to 3k would be nice.

Get us some photos of mic placement and the accoustic environment and we'll really be able to help you with evaluating this mic amp.

What about the gain/trim and hp filter? Overdriving the tube on the output with a sssssssizzzzzzzzzzzly condenser can sometimes sound harsh. The mic is usually the culprit when it's harsh on the top of a tube amp. Even the KM184 (let alone some of cheaper sdc) can be brutal up high when it's sitting to close and the gain set incorrectly. Try turning the gain up moving the mics back a 4 - 6 inches and adjusting the trim. Disengage the HPF and it should sound clean - again depending on the mic. This is why we have to see and need more info.

Anyway from what you've told me and what I listened to I'd blame the mic first then the room and then I'd look at the pre. I've heard that pre deliver enormous stereo (wide) and extremely clean recording.

Also don't bother with any eq or compression or any other processing - just make an mp3 of the session if you can - if not make it from the wav. Make them at 192k or 256k.

Good Luck!

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by Jeraz

Hello all...

I am wondering if any of you would mind helping out here.

Recently I took possesion of a Presonus ADL-600 for evaluation. There are some great things about this box, and some not-so-great things, but you have probably seen and heard many opinions and reviews. This thread is to engage the ears and minds here—if some can spare the time—in a reality check.

To set the backdrop, here is my aim: to get an acoustic guitar sound that is a nice balance of "big'; "clear"; with clean high end and tight, detailed bass; that can pass through moderate compression, eq and reverb of modest quality and still retain character and impact; and after all this sit in the mix well. No, I am not asking for much...LOL

So, here is a clip of something that comes CLOSE for me on my monitors on this box. If possible, I would like some opinions, and these may include alternative preamp suggestions (I am looking at D.A.V and Grace Designs right now...my idea is something can come from the pre-amp and some from the mix to achieve my goal).

Personally, I don't care for the high end of this ADL-600...it seems a bit distorted, but again, this is a reality check. Oh, and comments like this "This sounds like @ss", by themselves, won't help me much, so if you hear that, please explain further.

The clip is at the top of my SoundClick link below. Please download the 320kbps clip. I don't like any mp3s, but the 128K stream is much worse than the 320-->Guitar Improv. #2. I am doing it this way because direct links to clips at SoundClick don't always work.

Signal Path:

Matched pair of small format condenser mics--->Presonus ADL-600--->RME Fireface 800-->SONAR PE (88.2/24-bit, 64-bit float internal processing with multi-processor enabled-->rBrain gearboxed to 44.1/24-->Samplitude Pro 8.31 (for final EQ and mixdown to MP3)

Oh, and I am doing it this way, because this is how most people are going to hear my guitar through whatever preamp I settle on as my main one...an mp3 on some download site fuuck . It is what it is.

Bottom line: I am deciding whether to return this box for good, or give it another go. Your involvement here will help my perspective as I decide.

Thanks in advance for those who listen...

Best,

Mark

What mics are you using?

[Dot]

Jeraz, if you're looking for the preamp part of the equation, IMO, two channels of John Hardy M-1 are what I'd recommend for what you're doing. Runs in the $1600 range.
http://www.johnhardyco.com/M-1details.html

But, first there's a lot of other factors that are more important. I'd recommend you try heavier gauge strings. What gauge are you using? The strings you're using kind of crap out in places. That, and/or the action is too low for that style. So, first you've gotta get your guitar set up and sounding good before worrying about the other factors.

I agree with these other guys about mics and mic placement. And also the acoustics in your room. Some pics and more info would help folks provide you with better info.

[Jeraz]

@denasti~ Great info! Thanks! I have been playing with all sorts of gain levels and impedances. In this case...you are going to laugh...the sound I liked best happened quite by accident as between test takes I turned the wrong knobs on one of the channels, so one of the mics was at 150, and one was at 1500! The HP filter was on one channel and not the other! LOL...but had that suspicion myself about the HP filter and DID get cleaner highs without it on.

One reason that I picked the ADL-600 first, was I thought it would be really versatile for a first pre in this range...and I don't really feel qualified to say it is not, but I trust my ears and they are missing something right now.

The thing is, I have gotten better recordings out of Onyx and RME pre-amps than I am getting with this thing right now...in the same room with the same mics, and that might actually be because I am not hearing MORE of the room, so that now I have new problems. Up to now, I was excited about this amp…I posted about it other places thinking it was really going to be cool…so far I am not thinking it is for me and my sound.

The mics are a pair of matched RODE NT5s…admittedly not the best mics in the world, but again, I done OK with them. I will tell you that the guitar sounds I get unsolicited inquiries about (at least twice a month from my website) were done with a combination of a Royer R121 and a Neumann TLM103…mixing the two signals together for an optimum combination of smoothness and presence…ah well…don’t have the R121 anymore.

I will think about posting room pics…a little bit reticent because it’s my home and all…

The set up for THIS recording was this, where the slashes are mics and the “@” is the soundhole...guitar about 30" away from the line formed by the front of the two mics.

\   /
`~@>

I have tried X/Y and M/S before (back when I had an K2)…with similar results in this room. Actually, the above arrangement sounded better than X/Y to my ears.

@Dot~ FYI, love your "Listening Sessions" site...I know all the controversy about using mp3s to audition preamps, but for REALATIVE information, its been enormously helpful to me. Also, I would like CDs of both female vocalists from session one singing their entire repertoires a capella. Can this be arranged?

Now, thanks for the listen. The Hardy is also on my list, and to tell you the truth, the more that I listen to samples of its sound, and hear testimonials, the more I warm to it as probably a good choice for my first higher-end pre.


Strings? I am using Martin's MSP4200 Phosphor Bronze mediums. In fairness, I was hammering them...I wasn't originally planning on posting this...I got the bright idea ( stike ) after recording it...LOL...I was in Dsus4 tuning/Capo 2...beating the crap out of it, having fun...usually when I record, my technique is a little lighter...but in this case I mixed up light and hammering in the same cut to see what would come out the other end of the pre.

@Acoustic Cloud~ Thanks, man…that’s what I am going for…I want to hear wood, dammit!

[PHILANDDON]

Hey Mark,

Just listened to the clip off the super-shitty built-in speakers on my laptop (gotta get a proper setup here). Anyway, can't tell too much about the presonus unit which I'm VERY intersted in. It did occur to me that with you playing style, especially those percussives, you might try a ribbon mic....like AEA's R84. The nice thing about a ribbon for your playing style, is that it might smooth out those percussives enough (especially with a tube preamp like the ADL) that you wouldn't even need to compress your guitar track. (You could go one step further and track to tape). That would give you distincitive live/retro sound.....

You mentioned GRACE. I have a couple of Grace 101's, which are modded with more gain for ribbon mics. They do sound pretty good to me. Especially with my pair AKG 414B-XLS.....They also sound good with my AEA R84, but I am intersted in the AEA's new preamp as well as the Presonus ADL 600.

Two other things occurred to me. Those Rodes are very bright mics in my experience. Didn't have the NT5's, but had the 1A, which I didn't care for. So, with the presonus you might want to try darker mics. I find the AKG to be a very neutral sounding condenser, and, of course, the AEA R84 is neutral to dark sounding.

[danasti]

Originally Posted by Jeraz

@denasti~ Great info! Thanks! I have been playing with all sorts of gain levels and impedances. In this case...you are going to laugh...the sound I liked best happened quite by accident as between test takes I turned the wrong knobs on one of the channels, so one of the mics was at 150, and one was at 1500! The HP filter was on one channel and not the other! LOL...but had that suspicion myself about the HP filter and DID get cleaner highs without it on.

Well - I'd suggest to make these recordings again without any processing (compression - reverb - etc..) either while tracking or before converting mp3. Bottom line is that can sound much better. Those rodes are the MASTERS OF SIZZLE but you can totally make them work.

When I'm listening it sounds mono-ish and really centered. I assume you are going into two channels of your daw so make sure the levels in there are only hitting green or just into yellow on both the master and channel. PAN hard left and right and make sure you have no HPF or eq or compression on the DAW channels as well as the pre.

Try this: Hang one mic down to your front righ shoulder and pointing down towards the bridge. The other mic should be on a stand about 6 inches off of and pointing at the 12th fret. You don't have to match impedence but pick one that sounds the least sizzly on top.

Your mics were not far enough apart from eachother and too far from the guitar. If anything the pre is picking up too MUCH of the room.

Don't worry about volume - just try and get a good stereo sound that's clean. Let everyone turn the volume up on their amp...

[Jeraz]

Originally Posted by danasti

Well - I'd suggest to make these recordings again without any processing (compression - reverb - etc..) either while tracking or before converting mp3. Bottom line is that can sound much better. Those rodes are the MASTERS OF SIZZLE but you can totally make them work.

When I'm listening it sounds mono-ish and really centered. I assume you are going into two channels of your daw so make sure the levels in there are only hitting green or just into yellow on both the master and channel. PAN hard left and right and make sure you have no HPF or eq or compression on the DAW channels as well as the pre.

Try this: Hang one mic down to your front righ shoulder and pointing down towards the bridge. The other mic should be on a stand about 6 inches off of and pointing at the 12th fret. You don't have to match impedence but pick one that sounds the least sizzly on top.

Your mics were not far enough apart from eachother and too far from the guitar. If anything the pre is picking up too MUCH of the room.

Don't worry about volume - just try and get a good stereo sound that's clean. Let everyone turn the volume up on their amp...

OK, I tried it your way and I think that I am falling in love. Holy sh1t. I tried the following with REMARKABLE differences in track effects—some of which I hope to post here later tonight in a sample mp3...

1. GAIN 35dB, TRIM full Clockwise, 1500 Ohms
2. GAIN 55, TRIM fully Counterclockwise, 1500 Ohms
3. Same thing as above, but using 300 ohms (very interesting! things got harsh at 900, but returned to some more balance at 300!)

Once, by accident, I recorded a clip at 45dB and full clockwise, so I was only at, like, -30dB RMS...and I just cranked up the volume a bit...and it was DEAD quiet and good listening levels, and almost breathtakingly smooth/gentle sounding...I have to try to capture that in one of the samples. What a range of tone this thing can do...probably spend weeks learning it.

And I will post just a small sample of what this thing can do—and these clips have NO eq or processing of any kind (obviously they need it for some of the boominess for a start), but still, I like the raw tracks that I am gettin now. Thanks very much for the help...I may put off that hardy after all...

[Jeraz]

UPDATE 08/08/2006

There is a new clip up at the top of my SoundClick page (ADL-600 GTR Test/Behind the Heart Sketch) I left the old one for comparison. With this new one, I used suggestions from danasti on recording. The results are remarkable in their difference. Again, best results are the download.

The clip has a series of sessions, each done with a different setting on the ADL-600, as you listen through, this is the order:

1. GAIN=35dB; TRIM=Full Clockwise, IMP.=1500 Ohms
2. GAIN=55dB; TRIM=Full Counterclockwise; IMP.=1500 Ohms
3. GAIN=45dB; TRIM=Full Counterclockwise; IMP.=1500 Ohms (recorded at much lower actual level and brought up with gain in the DAW!)
4. GAIN=35dB; TRIM=Full Clockwise; IMP.=300 Ohms (Note difference in bass and highs!)
5. GAIN=55dB; TRIM=Full Counterclockwise; Imp.=300 Ohms

there is NO PROCESSING of any kind in these sessions. This was recorded with the same mics and equipment as the original; same signal path, but no compression or reverb.

Comments welcome...

Best,

Mark

[mr.gefell]

Originally Posted by Jeraz

UPDATE 08/08/2006

There is a new clip up at the top of my SoundClick page (ADL-600 GTR Test/Behind the Heart Sketch) I left the old one for comparison. With this new one, I used suggestions from danasti on recording. The results are remarkable in their difference. Again, best results are the download.

The clip has a series of sessions, each done with a different setting on the ADL-600, as you listen through, this is the order:

1. GAIN=35dB; TRIM=Full Clockwise, IMP.=1500 Ohms
2. GAIN=55dB; TRIM=Full Counterclockwise; IMP.=1500 Ohms
3. GAIN=45dB; TRIM=Full Counterclockwise; IMP.=1500 Ohms (recorded at much lower actual level and brought up with gain in the DAW!)
4. GAIN=35dB; TRIM=Full Clockwise; IMP.=300 Ohms (Note difference in bass and highs!)
5. GAIN=55dB; TRIM=Full Counterclockwise; Imp.=300 Ohms

there is NO PROCESSING of any kind in these sessions. This was recorded with the same mics and equipment as the original; same signal path, but no compression or reverb.

Comments welcome...

Best,

Mark

[Jeraz]

Originally Posted by mr.gefell

Ha! Thanks...better, eh? Any particular cycle that you like better than another...I noticed that on some takes, the stereo balance sounds different, though the digicheck scope doesn't report that much shift...strange...maybe the tube on the right side is checking in differently at different trim settings...hmmm....maybe I will get a couple of Telefunkens or Mullards, ditch the Sovteks and run the test again.

Best,

Mark

[Musiclab]

the 300 ohm setting is the ticket for those mics. I'm doing a classical guitar album with
a pair of KM184's and the ADL 600, and the sound is just great, btw also using the 300
setting. I like this box so much I bought another one.

[danasti]

Originally Posted by Jeraz

OK, I tried it your way and I think that I am falling in love. Holy sh1t. I tried the following with REMARKABLE differences in track effects—some of which I hope to post here later tonight in a sample mp3...

1. GAIN 35dB, TRIM full Clockwise, 1500 Ohms
2. GAIN 55, TRIM fully Counterclockwise, 1500 Ohms
3. Same thing as above, but using 300 ohms (very interesting! things got harsh at 900, but returned to some more balance at 300!)

Once, by accident, I recorded a clip at 45dB and full clockwise, so I was only at, like, -30dB RMS...and I just cranked up the volume a bit...and it was DEAD quiet and good listening levels, and almost breathtakingly smooth/gentle sounding...I have to try to capture that in one of the samples. What a range of tone this thing can do...probably spend weeks learning it.

And I will post just a small sample of what this thing can do—and these clips have NO eq or processing of any kind (obviously they need it for some of the boominess for a start), but still, I like the raw tracks that I am gettin now. Thanks very much for the help...I may put off that hardy after all...

Awesome man! I'm so glad I could help. It's great when this forum can yeild results and we can maximize our gear and perfomance.

Every once in a while when the planets align, someone listens and acts on my advice while simultaniouly I'm not talking nonsense (very rare ).

I know that preamp and I know how incredible it can sound. I'd actually borrowed a prototype from a studio here in town and I was floored. I really liked it. Anthony came up with a pretty good design, could use more output and impedence selection. It's a great with ribbons, very quiet. If you get some more mic flavors I gaurantee you will keep on loving that preamp. I can recommend getting a pair of Shinybox 23L (Lundahl output tranny!). Mod it and take out the windblast "protection" (protects you from good sound).. WOW... Great combo..
http://www.oktavamod.com/othermods.html

The sound should be great on just the preamp with nothing else going on. Get a great sound there first and then add the other stuff. I think that's the best way to work.

Sounds much better!

[mr.gefell]

Originally Posted by Jeraz

Ha! Thanks...better, eh? Any particular cycle that you like better than another...I noticed that on some takes, the stereo balance sounds different, though the digicheck scope doesn't report that much shift...strange...maybe the tube on the right side is checking in differently at different trim settings...hmmm....maybe I will get a couple of Telefunkens or Mullards, ditch the Sovteks and run the test again.

Best,

Mark

Your playing is great, and you probably would get great results with even a behringer pre.

I would get a pair of new mics and play with the placement . Again nice playing and i liked the second sample best.

[Sunbreak Music]

Sounds really good, dammit. Adds ADL to wishlist......

Musiclab--have you used the km184s and the ADL on a steel string?

[Jeraz]

stike Musiclab...yeah, I like 300 ohms for something like "The Wall", and 1500 for something like "Let's Fall". This is going to be fun. I just ran an old mix of "Let's Fall" through the ADL for "conditioning"...literally out one set of RME inputs, through the ADL-600 back out, and into another track in Samplitude...friggin' amazing what it did! Took a sh1tty effort on my part and spiffed it up quite a bit! It still needs help, but I can't believe the difference...hee hee. What's cool about that, is I can record guitar and vocals with this thing, run cello or drum samples through the ADL for conditioning, and then mix 'em in. Well, looks good on paper...

stike danasti...man, you helped quite a bit, and I appreciate it! Well done! I've been lookin' at that Shinybox, and appreciate the link to the mod!

stike mr.gefell: Glad you like my playin', and I thank you for saying so! That was a little loose, since it is just a preamp demo, but I hope to polish that theme up and make a song out of it in within a few weeks...thank you, again!

stike sunbreak...yeah, this is a great piece...go for it!

Best,

Mark

[AB3]

Some people put down the km 184s. I do not. Especially with a great tube pre. I used a Demeter with upgraded tubes and the KM 184s were awesome on overheads. I can see where it would be a great combo with the ADL 600.

Originally Posted by Musiclab

the 300 ohm setting is the ticket for those mics. I'm doing a classical guitar album with
a pair of KM184's and the ADL 600, and the sound is just great, btw also using the 300
setting. I like this box so much I bought another one.

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by Sunbreak Music

Sounds really good, dammit. Adds ADL to wishlist......

Musiclab--have you used the km184s and the ADL on a steel string?

Yes I have with my Taylor 412 I like it alot

[Jeraz]

Well, this was an enlightening experience, and I sincerely appreciate the help I received here, but in the end, at this time, for my kind of work, I have decided that this pre isn't for me. Down the road, when I want more of this kind of color...maybe...but right now, this pre is a luxury...

I decided to go with something less colored, but still "big" in good way. I decided to go with two channels of the John Hardy M-1. I am really fortunate, as it looks like I can get one in a week or so (instead of the usual 4-6) because John had one on the bench, and the good folks at Mercenary are gonna work it for me.

It was almost painful to let the ADL-600 go—what a lush, demensional sound it has! Still, I think/feelthe "East Coast Singer/Songrwiter" and instrumental guitar composition stuff that I do calls for something more like the Hardy sound. Down the road, I may revisit the ADL-600 as I add more options to my gear arsenal.

Again, I thank the folks here for their time listening and advising...the take-aways are significant regardless of what pre-amp I use.

Best,

Mark

[PHILANDDON]

Hey Mark,

I've also been recommended that John Hardy preamp as well as others. I was wondering what you thought of the Presonus ADL 600 for someone who does roots/country/americana type stuff. I won't be doing a lot of multitracking. (In fact, I'm a big fan of one track mono stuff). Will be using my AEA R84, which, as you probably know, requires a fair amount of gain. I may also be using my pair of AKG 414-XLS. Right now I have a couple of Grace 101's, but I'd like to add a little magic to the signal. Tracking to tape helps; thought tracking through a tube preamp like the ADL 600 might help even more....................Whatdayathink...............

[Jeraz]

Originally Posted by PHILANDDON

Hey Mark,

I've also been recommended that John Hardy preamp as well as others. I was wondering what you thought of the Presonus ADL 600 for someone who does roots/country/americana type stuff. I won't be doing a lot of multitracking. (In fact, I'm a big fan of one track mono stuff). Will be using my AEA R84, which, as you probably know, requires a fair amount of gain. I may also be using my pair of AKG 414-XLS. Right now I have a couple of Grace 101's, but I'd like to add a little magic to the signal. Tracking to tape helps; thought tracking through a tube preamp like the ADL 600 might help even more....................Whatdayathink...............

Gain, we got gain, alright!

The ADL is quiet, has gobs of headroom, and gobs of gain. It has a demensional sound...I experience as very "round" or deep...harmonically rich. Others might describe it as "spongy" or "soft" in some ways with some mics and some impedences.

This is one you HAVE to try yourself. I think it sounds beautiful, but it isn't MY sound. I need a harder sound that is still big. More transparency/clarity, but still musical. I could probably get by OK with an ISA-428, but I wanted something less mass-production (the romantic in me) and less of a toaster (the suckers get HOT).

I could do well with a GR, but I heard the Hardy and the GR side by side, and I like the bottom end of the Hardy better (for my guitar and my voice). I could do well with a D.A.V, but I prefer the Hardy sound and form factor too. I could do well with an API 3124, and I will probably buy one next, for those times when I want a mid-forward...well, maybe everything forward kind of sound. Then I am going to save for a Vipre for vocals.

There are a lot of choices out there...if you are always engineering someone else your needs are different than if its mostly you. I my case, it's mostly me, so I buy what I think is right for MY sound.

Hope this helps!

Best,

Mark

PS: Mercenary called me today, and I will have my Hardy tomorrow! This has to be a world record. I ordered it YESTERDAY. LOL.

[PHILANDDON]

Thanks Mark. Think I Gotta try it!!

[Earwitness]

Mark -
I just talked to a very reliable source that knows that a number of the first models of ADL-600s were wired wrong and my friend went through a number of them that were wired out of phase. This is a guy who knows the tech side of things and he even sent his results to Presonus and shure enough that started testing theres and he was right. You might take another mic pre, track with matching mics on a single source and zoom in and see whether your waveforms line up. He showed me some recordings in Protools and while I thought, that doesn't sound that bad, when he showed me the one he finally was sent that was wired right you could totaly hear the difference. This is no joke email me if you want more details.
sam

[Jeraz]

Originally Posted by Earwitness

Mark -
I just talked to a very reliable source that knows that a number of the first models of ADL-600s were wired wrong and my friend went through a number of them that were wired out of phase. This is a guy who knows the tech side of things and he even sent his results to Presonus and shure enough that started testing theres and he was right. You might take another mic pre, track with matching mics on a single source and zoom in and see whether your waveforms line up. He showed me some recordings in Protools and while I thought, that doesn't sound that bad, when he showed me the one he finally was sent that was wired right you could totaly hear the difference. This is no joke email me if you want more details.
sam

OH man, I can't believe this...but I will tell you, that being a guitarist, and using two mics, I ALWAYS check my wave forms in Samplitude Pro before rendering. That said, wiring out of phase could cause some other problems as well...too late!!! I have a John Hardy M-1 now! Updated the clip. I will post an update to that effect. Still, I would like to know more details, since I will audition this amp again for an 07 purchase!

Best,

Mark

[Jeraz]

UPDATE 08/12/2006

For anyone still interested, I updated the clip on my SoundClick site (see SIG) so that now the best example of the ADL-600 recording is first, then John Hardy M-1, then John Hardy M-1 with FMR RNC compressor.

Setup for all is the same. The RNC was recorded at the same time as the straight Hardy track, but running the RNC as an insert off the FF800, and routing with the FF800 DSP mixer so that recording went to two separate tracks, one with the RNC in the chain, and one without. Link is the same but is now renamed. Other than the RNC track, no EQ, 'verb or comp. was used.

If you download the 320kbps, you will hear a HUGE difference compared to the 128 stream.

Best,

Mark