Converters don't hold their value too well

[Revelation]

Found this on a review of the Rosetta 800 at digitalproaudio.com

"Also noteworthy is Rosetta 800’s price-per-channel ratio. It provides eight channels of A/D and D/A at a list price of $2,995. That’s the same list price as Apogee’s older PSX100, a two-channel A/D and D/A converter released in 1999. A previous eight-channel Apogee converter, the AD8000, came out in 1998 with a list price of $5,995! And that offered only analog-to-digital conversion. It looks as if Moore’s Law applies to the audio converter market."

You won't have this issue with a Neumann U87 or Great River pre. The good news is you get much better converters today and at a cheaper price compared to a couple of years ago.

[AdamJay]

Originally Posted by Revelation

The good news is you get much better converters today and at a cheaper price compared to a couple of years ago.

well yea, duh... that's kinda why they don't hold their value too well.

so is that actually good news? or even news at all?
because won't that be the bad news of the day in 2 years when the next generation of converters makes that Rosetta suddenly not so high end and laughable at anything over $1500.


This is why i bought the Lynx Aurora 16. It sounded fantastic and still does today, i think sonically it beats the Rosetta 800, twice as many channels for nearly the same price means it will hold its value against the competition for longer. Not saying it is immune to being outdated, it will no doubt depreciate. But depreciation of a $3,000 converter is a much easier pill to swallow than the depreciation of a $5,500-$6,000 converter solution (:cough:Apogee)

[Revelation]

Yes the Lynx are also good converters too. I did not buy the Aurora 8 since the Rosetta does not need a AES card which is another $650. I was able to get the Rosetta under $2,500 so I did ok. I know the Lynx is coming out with a firewire card in the near future. That will be a good thing.

[danasti]

Originally Posted by Revelation

You won't have this issue with a Neumann U87 or Great River pre. The good news is you get much better converters today and at a cheaper price compared to a couple of years ago.

It's because they are constantly "improving". I find some actual improvements for sure but a lot more buzz and bul-shit about their "clairity", "air" and all that kaka-krap.

You've got basically one company making the actual converter - then mixed with a tried and true analog signal path that uses high quality parts and assembled with care. It's not some huge secret or like things about to reach some new height of ingenuity. On the analog side I think things are about as good as they ever will get. I honestly feel that in 10 to 15 years a Lavry gold or a Prism will be a very good unit.

Still the vintage market has the fad inflation syndrome. The flavor of the year fad that skyrockets some old analog gear into the price stratosphere. Certain bubbles will burst but for the most part you are correct, a well maintained mic, preamp or comp that was bought outside of a bubble will for the most part retain its value.

[GearHunter]

Digital stuff in general declines in value at a rapid rate. One reason is that the newer technology is better faster cheaper. So if you bought an Apogee 5 years ago, it was expensive. (And you know what? That generation of Apogee still sounds excellent. They were engineered and built very well. If you don't need above 48K, a used AD8000 is not a bad acquisition).

If you bought a Sony 3348HR 48-track digital recorder new back in 1992, you would have paid $150K.

ALL recording gear is less expensive now. There is little or no genuine BOUTIQUE gear anymore.

However, when you get up to converters by Prism and Weiss, well those are a different story. They cost a lot and they hold their value much better, because they are reference/master-quality converters, and they are not for the project studio realm. They are also really hard to find used.

Nothing like a good hunk of analog iron to hold it's value, though, right?

[GYang]

Originally Posted by danasti

I honestly feel that in 10 to 15 years a Lavry gold or a Prism will be a very good unit.

Top flight converters from 10 years ago are in sonic quality almost same as top flight converters of today. Prices are just a bit lower.
In lower and mid class converters changes toward affordability are much bigger.
Today the difference between best mid priced converters and the best existing converters is astonishing small.
But difference remains and costs fortune.

[Revelation]

This is one reason why I don’t won’t a digital mixer. Yes the Yamaha 02R96 is still a nice mixer. However your stuck with it’s converters for one. In regards to it’s effects, there are many good plug ins that sound better. Yamaha realized this and now you can buy upgraded effects for their mixers, but due to limited memory on the digital mixers, you are limited with how many you can use. Their next generation of digital mixers should be really nice with the upgraded reverbs, compressors and EQ’s available on every channel plus improved converters. However what is offered now with their gear is still good enough to make great recordings.

Speaking of the Rosetta again, Mix magazine when they reviewed it had these prices.

"The Rosetta 800 ($2,995), Apogee's newest 24-bit multichannel converter, offers eight channels of A/D and D/A conversion, ...........The unit supports up to 96 kHz, but a $3,995/base 192kHz version is offered."

Now all they make is the 192 version and I got the 192 version under $2,500.

[raal]

Converters don't hold their value too well.

nothing that's computer related does, but analog gear at least has the possibility of holding it's value. no doubt computers and computer related stuff are a necessity these days, just like toilet paper, and they pretty much have the same longevity.

very high end converters have very strong analog stages, so it stands to reason they will hold their value longer. what we don't know is if high-end manufacturers will upgrade existing units when the chips, etc. become obsolete, or are substituted for whatever reason. that is the question... i would like to think the higher end the converter, the more of a possibility that this could be... but prolly not

[Revelation]

One thing that losses it's value faster than converters of us is our computers. My Pent. IV 2.8 is old these days compared to the dual core computers. However I figured I will wait until Windows unveils their 64 bit Windows software. That way I won't be limited to my 2 gigs of ram on my PC.

[danasti]

Originally Posted by GYang

Top flight converters from 10 years ago are in sonic quality almost same as top flight converters of today. Prices are just a bit lower.
In lower and mid class converters changes toward affordability are much bigger.
Today the difference between best mid priced converters and the best existing converters is astonishing small.
But difference remains and costs fortune.

Yes, like I suggested with the Lavry Golds they are top shelf because of an astonishingly refined analog stage. On a recent visit to an ME he showed me the wonderful sound they make when clipping or driving them hard. Sure, it is significantly small but when I budget I will pay only $50 or so more to use him over another less expensive engineer who cannot achieve the same lovely sound.

The Lavry Gold analog stage will sound great forever in my opinion. I just wish one of these designers would make a converter where you could drop in the latest ADC/DAC chip and have the same solid analog stage. (I know I'm happily dreaming because they have no financial incentive!)

I still own a ad8000se and I love it. It sounds great and I have no interest switching to a newer apogee in my home studio. When I bought it I paid just north of $4000 maybe 5 years ago + I upgraded. Was it worth it to me? Yes! Of course! And I could still get $2000 with the 8 outs, and ambus cards... so $2500 or so to rent a converter for 5 years is how I'm looking at it.