Long body, short body U47 . . .

[DaveH]

After a long wait my name is next on the list for a Wagner U47W.

Any comments about long or short body would be helpful.
I don’t know much about this aspect of the U47s.

Does it have an effect sound wise?
If not why the two body styles?

In fact I don’t even know what body type we had here when they
were rented. (Rented awhile back, and I didn’t handle the renting aspect).

This is one decision that I will most likely live
with for----------ever -------!


Thanks,

[obostic]

Here explanation from man himself:

a. long body chrome top (this was the very first U47 version, built 1949-1952)
b. short body/chrome top (that's the version you saw from Jeff laurence Gill)
c. short body/matt nickel top

Like with the old U47, the only difference between the versions is the mechanical appearance. Electrically and sonically the versions are identical.

best regards,

Gunter Wagner
www.german-tubemics.com

Enjoy your Wagner!

[Fletcher]

With all due respect. The information I was able to gather from my research showed that the long body was in production until January 1957, at which time the "short body" was introduced and the chrome removed from the head grill of the microphone to reduce light reflections in television applications [where light reflected into a "vidicon" tube could burn a permanent mark into the tube].

The reason for the change from long to short was to minimize the intrusion of the microphone in video/television applications. The down side of the short body has been perported to me to be rise in the internal temperature of the microphone to which there are varying thoughts.

One thought I have heard is that the tube life is decreased due to the additional heat, others have told me that the microphones have a slightly warmer/richer mid response due to the warmth of the tube.

Personally I think it's mostly bullshit [with the exception of the 1957 date from the transition from long to short body]... but that could be bullshit too.

Peace.

[DaveH]

Thanks for the info guys.

I ordered the long body.

1. If heat “rumor” is true best to error on the side of caution and
go for the larger/cooler body style.

(If the heat really gives a “warmer/richer” response I’ll need to develop
a new product called the “heater” which will warm up and shorten the life
of all “cold sounding” tube microphones). I don’t know if I will use electronics
or a candle.

2. The studio I’m in we don’t care about shooting videos and even if we did
we’d want the big intrusive mics and equipment.

If anyone thinks the above is serious, its not. It was good to find out long/short
body issue is in fact a none issue, as far as I can find.

I found the following comments about U47s and they
are copied here as I found them an interesting read.

As far as I know there was only one significant difference between U47s with the 5 11/16 inch (145 mm) long body and the 5 inch (128 mm) short body:
1958 was a transition year for U47s: long vs. short body, import to the U.S. changed from Telefunken to Gotham and the remaining M7 PVC capsule in stock petered out and made way for the Mylar/Polyester K47 capsule. That last one is big: the capsules sounded different and the new K47 lasted, pretty much forever, whereas the M7 was the infamous 'time bomb' because of material deterioration of the membrane over time.
Beyond these obvious differences you can speculate that the longer housing tube of the Long Body 47 acts as slightly more efficient heat sink for the heat generated by the hand wound wire resistor embedded in the mic's frame wall and that the slightly larger air volume inside the Long Body's mic's amp cavity allows a slightly lower temperature which aids the cooling of the VF14. But I cannot claim a measurable or audible difference in the performance of both housing tube lengths because of the slightly different cooling they afford.
Kind regards, Klaus Heyne
============================================= ===============
Long and short body U47 share the exact same components, like transformer and other electronic components, including the same large Bosch .5 and 1mfd electrolytics. The more likely reason was the general trend towards smaller mics, to be less visually intimidating to artists. Kind regards, Klaus Heyne
============================================= ===============
I often come across noticeable differences in temperature of u47 housing bodies.
There are two principal reasons, everything else being the same (especially the heat dissipation in the room) for this phenomenon:
1. The power supply is not adjusted correctly, i.e. the nominal heater voltage of 36V after the voltage dividing resisor (which is the principal generator for the heat you feel) is not maintained.
2. Different VF14 tubes have different current draws, resulting in diferent amount of heat dissipation by the body's housing tube.
You can adjust the former, but, if the tube data under load are correct (B+ ca. 105V, H- 36V, P- 32V or more), there is nothing you can do to correct the latter.
Kind regards, Klaus Heyne
============================================= =================
The only feature where the last version of the u47, which was named the u47a, differs from the earlier u47 shortbodies is the output transformer, BV8b, whereby the secondary is wound over the primary. The new transformer can be identified by the label 'BV GN 8b', which is clearly visible under the transformer's amber wrapping paper, on the top facing surface of the double bobbins. It produces ca. 4 dB less output into 1k Ohm mic pre inputs.
Martin Schneider at one point also posted that there was another transformer available on the u47a model, a BV8a with 600 ohms output imnpedance. I have never seen that model. All other components seem to be aboslutely identical between both models, to my knowledge.
Kind regards, Klaus Heyne
============================================= ================
Hello John,
as far I recall Klaus was talking about the different x-former used in M49 from the very early NWDR, the Hiller and the different BV11 version. All those x-former sound quite different in response, midrange, etc.
X-formers used in the U47 have several different version aswell, but aside the early Hiller made ones, the BV8 used since approx. serial# 200 are nearly same in sound, there are two different winding technique versions and than the 12.5/50 Ohm, 200/600Ohm and the most used and popular the 50/200 Ohm version.
X-former difference is easy to figure out the early U47 were frequency limited to 40 Herz by separating specific winding parts to get the IRT required low cut. Later U47 just used a .5uF coupling cap instead the earlier 1uF. The sound of the x-former is very similar. U48 had the later x-former with .5uFcoupling cap.
The sound of the U47 outputs differs from mic pre to mic pre, you want for the 200 Ohm strapping a min. of 1k or the perfect mic pre is the Telefunken V41 with 2K input, the historical mic pre of the IRT 40 series made by Telefunken, Maihak, Siemens and EAB.
The historic 1950s power sup. is probably the best you can find for your mic, you might want to change the filter caps and the old cloth wire, but anything else they work very reliable. The 450V is just open without any load, but to be sure not to kill your mic due to dried out filter caps, etc, you might want to use a variac x-former to bring the voltage up very slowly to make sure that at given line voltage you have 105 Volts.
Best regards,
Oliver

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by DaveH

After a long wait my name is next on the list for a Wagner U47W.

Any comments about long or short body would be helpful.
I don’t know much about this aspect of the U47s.

Does it have an effect sound wise?
If not why the two body styles?

In fact I don’t even know what body type we had here when they
were rented. (Rented awhile back, and I didn’t handle the renting aspect).

This is one decision that I will most likely live
with for----------ever -------!


Thanks,

How long have you been waiting and whats the cost of the Wagner?

[DaveH]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

How long have you been waiting and whats the cost of the Wagner?

I orginally contacted Mr. Wagner in December of 2005.
So I was just notificed a few days ago that I am next on the list.
I should be receiving the microphone in the next several weeks
after final build and burn in. (Over 7 month wait).

Price: $5,690 (don't know if this price is current or it
was "locked" last December. Fedex shipping will be around $228
from Australia. (Shipping did go up).

Best,

[jacobq]

Keep us in touch on what you think of it when you have had a chance to put it through the paces.

[DaveH]

Will do.

[jimbo_baby84]

i don't know why you wouldn't just ask gunter, seeing as you're obviously in contact with him at this point anyway and he knows more about the u47 than anyone. the way he explained it to me though is that one part in there (forget which) is mounted horizontally rather than vertically. by the way i'm insanely jealous of you.

[vernier]

Nat Cole, Beatles, Judy Garland, Sinatra ...I'll take that one!

[DaveH]

Originally Posted by jimbo_baby84

i don't know why you wouldn't just ask gunter, seeing as you're obviously in contact with him at this point anyway and he knows more about the u47 than anyone. the way he explained it to me though is that one part in there (forget which) is mounted horizontally rather than vertically. by the way i'm insanely jealous of you.

I ask the question on multiple fronts. (Yes, Gunter too). Received multiple
answers. Some comments matched others did not. As this falls under the
heading of “history” the reports of “facts” can vary.

But I got enough info to make what I believe was an informed decision about
this aspect.

The capsule issue M7 vs. K47 is not as easy.

[Jack Pettit]

I have one of Gunters U47's
It's a short body matt top k47 capsule
I don't recall it ever being warm, I'll check next time.

[jacobq]

If you do not mind me asking,What did you end up going with on your order?
As in which capsule and body length.Chrome or matte.

The reason I ask is that I am either on deck or in the hole, as they say in baseball, as to when my order comes up.

[DaveH]

Originally Posted by jacobq

If you do not mind me asking,What did you end up going with on your order?
As in which capsule and body length.Chrome or matte.

The reason I ask is that I am either on deck or in the hole, as they say in baseball, as to when my order comes up.

Long body, chrome top, classic M7 capsule.

The set includes the power supply, cable, spider shockmount, dust sock and transport case

[jacobq]

DaveH
How is the Wagner performing for you?

[DaveH]

Originally Posted by jacobq

DaveH
How is the Wagner performing for you?

Sorry for the very slow response, but crazy does
not begin to describe what is going on here at the studio.

In years past I rented U47’s. Never really knew what “exactly” a
U47 sounded like as I never had two rentals that sounded the same.

Just recently got the Wagner after about a 9 month wait.
I have been extremely impressed so far. It is at the very least
better than any rental U47. I am very picky as far as details and
this mic has not disappointed.

Due to voice over work that has loaded me down and some other
side issues I have not done detailed and extensive testing of Wagner.
I don’t want to complain but having too much work sometimes takes
the fun out of it. (Should knock on wood as I don’t want to go back
to having plenty of free time but no money for new gear).

I have not heard anything when using this microphone that makes me think of
the Wagner as a “clone”.

No regrets . . .