Top and bottom tom micing.

Nu-tra · 31st July 2006, 07:25 PM

I've read quit a few post about whether it is good or bad to put a top and bottom mic on the toms. I like the sound but I was also wondering where you guys point the bottom mic. Do you point the mic straight up the middle or inbetween the center and the edge.

Thanks

HiRaX · 31st July 2006, 08:57 PM

I would say move the bottom mic around until you achieve the sound your looking for but check your phase.

**Jules** · 31st July 2006, 09:47 PM

OK art isnt a strong point of mine..

Nu-tra · 2nd August 2006, 01:32 AM

That's beautiful Jules!

Thanks

minister · 2nd August 2006, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules

OK art isnt a strong point of mine..

that's AWESOME Jules!

that should be the cover of your 'Handbook to Advanced Micing Techniques'

...except...where is that bottom mic facing? ... the shell?

absrec · 2nd August 2006, 02:25 AM

I've seen it done a number of different ways. Most people I observed doing it pointed the top mic at the "normal" place and the bottom mic straight at the middle.

I've seen a bunch of different mic choices as well. I've saw one guy use AKG 414s on the top and Sennhieser MD421s on the bottom. I also saw another guy do MD421s on the top and SM57s on the bottom into a "Y" cable with the polarity reversed on one side. I did that for a while. It sounds pretty cool. Haven't done it in forever, though. I've really never heard anything compare to MD421s through my Daking 52270 modules since I started using that chain.

Best of luck,
-Aaron

thenoiseflower · 2nd August 2006, 02:43 AM

In my experience, if the bottom head isnt tuned up(3rd, 5th) or down(3rd, 5th) then either just a top mic/or the tecnique jules showed here ( about 45 deg off head axis top and bottom) is fine, obviosly needs some ear tests for fine placement, BUT if the drumer has downward resonating or upward resonating tuned bottom heads, I find it to be a bit tricker, b/c the phase is no longer precise at like distances(beetween top head and mic, and bottom head and mic), generaly a bit further back on the bottom mic, and in the relative center of the bottom head works fine, for either upward or downward resonating drums.

the top head as always, should be relativly close but where it sounds best, again, as the phase relationships change with this type of drum tuning, it isnt very important to mimic placment on both sides of a drum.

BTW i like 414 on bottom, 421 on top.

joeq · 2nd August 2006, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules

OK art isnt a strong point of mine..

I am printing that out and putting it on my refrigerator!

slipperman · 2nd August 2006, 03:01 AM

A part of me fervently prays this practice never returns to common AE vogue.

It is often a colossal expenditure of time and energy when ALL is "sad and done"(pun intended).

Having said that... I do think it can yield some very impressive and worthwhile results for musics with persistent dynamic swing.

I guess my point is....

Without an appreciable number of the 'revealing moments' for the whole tom to shine in... it's simply not worth the price of admission/can o' wormies.

Best regards,

SM.

adamcal · 2nd August 2006, 04:05 AM

the AE at work

antiguru · 2nd August 2006, 04:33 AM

pics!

Ruudman · 2nd August 2006, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules

OK art isnt a strong point of mine..

Excellent footjob, Jules!
Toes up.

ruudman

Bassmec · 2nd August 2006, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nu-tra

I've read quit a few post about whether it is good or bad to put a top and bottom mic on the toms. I like the sound but I was also wondering where you guys point the bottom mic. Do you point the mic straight up the middle or inbetween the center and the edge.

Thanks

One for each lower head you mic. Because you will end up with less real LF than
micing the top head alone. Try this.
http://funky-junk.it/db/prodotti/pro...=1&id_art=1490
Regards Mark

jbuntz · 3rd August 2006, 06:59 AM

I really love the sound of tom and bottom tom micing, but it's a pain in the ass to set up, it's a pain in the ass to keep up with extra tracks and puts the tuning under a microscope. You have to really have the drums very in tune for this to sound good. There seems to be a bit less cymbal bleed, especially on floor tom with drummer bashing the ride. When I've done it with success, it's been 421 top, 604 bottom. The blend of bottom to top can be much higher on toms than on snare too, which again helps with cymbal bleed. The low end can be really cool if done right. I usually use my one IBP on Kick or guitars while tracking (a lot of times I'm happy time aligning bass, and my ear, not by sight).

jonboyrock · 3rd August 2006, 07:22 AM

I do this all the time. Love it. Sounds great. I use atm 25s top and bottom.
The Albini tip is to keep the bottom out of phase and increase the gain until maximum cancellation then flip the phase, sweet as.

Morrillo · 3rd August 2006, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoiseflower

In my experience, if the bottom head isnt tuned up(3rd, 5th) or down(3rd, 5th) then either just a top mic/or the tecnique jules showed here ( about 45 deg off head axis top and bottom) is fine, obviosly needs some ear tests for fine placement, BUT if the drumer has downward resonating or upward resonating tuned bottom heads, I find it to be a bit tricker, b/c the phase is no longer precise at like distances(beetween top head and mic, and bottom head and mic), generaly a bit further back on the bottom mic, and in the relative center of the bottom head works fine, for either upward or downward resonating drums.

the top head as always, should be relativly close but where it sounds best, again, as the phase relationships change with this type of drum tuning, it isnt very important to mimic placment on both sides of a drum.

BTW i like 414 on bottom, 421 on top.

I agree with you

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31st July 2006, 07:25 PM	#1
Nu-tra Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,269	Top and bottom tom micing. I've read quit a few post about whether it is good or bad to put a top and bottom mic on the toms. I like the sound but I was also wondering where you guys point the bottom mic. Do you point the mic straight up the middle or inbetween the center and the edge. Thanks

31st July 2006, 09:47 PM	#3
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 11,132	OK art isnt a strong point of mine.. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Jules "While we're at it, insert the standard rant about shit being mixed and mastered to "cd quality". - msquared

2nd August 2006, 02:25 AM	#6
absrec Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,100	I've seen it done a number of different ways. Most people I observed doing it pointed the top mic at the "normal" place and the bottom mic straight at the middle. I've seen a bunch of different mic choices as well. I've saw one guy use AKG 414s on the top and Sennhieser MD421s on the bottom. I also saw another guy do MD421s on the top and SM57s on the bottom into a "Y" cable with the polarity reversed on one side. I did that for a while. It sounds pretty cool. Haven't done it in forever, though. I've really never heard anything compare to MD421s through my Daking 52270 modules since I started using that chain. Best of luck, -Aaron __________________ If you don't spank it, you can't crank it!

2nd August 2006, 03:01 AM	#9
slipperman Harmless Wacko Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: A prison cell with soffit mounts Posts: 845	A part of me fervently prays this practice never returns to common AE vogue. It is often a colossal expenditure of time and energy when ALL is "sad and done"(pun intended). Having said that... I do think it can yield some very impressive and worthwhile results for musics with persistent dynamic swing. I guess my point is.... Without an appreciable number of the 'revealing moments' for the whole tom to shine in... it's simply not worth the price of admission/can o' wormies. Best regards, SM. __________________ When in trouble or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

31st July 2006, 08:57 PM	#2
HiRaX Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 234	I would say move the bottom mic around until you achieve the sound your looking for but check your phase.

2nd August 2006, 01:32 AM	#4
Nu-tra Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,269	That's beautiful Jules! Thanks

2nd August 2006, 02:43 AM	#7
thenoiseflower Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Boston Posts: 1,018	In my experience, if the bottom head isnt tuned up(3rd, 5th) or down(3rd, 5th) then either just a top mic/or the tecnique jules showed here ( about 45 deg off head axis top and bottom) is fine, obviosly needs some ear tests for fine placement, BUT if the drumer has downward resonating or upward resonating tuned bottom heads, I find it to be a bit tricker, b/c the phase is no longer precise at like distances(beetween top head and mic, and bottom head and mic), generaly a bit further back on the bottom mic, and in the relative center of the bottom head works fine, for either upward or downward resonating drums. the top head as always, should be relativly close but where it sounds best, again, as the phase relationships change with this type of drum tuning, it isnt very important to mimic placment on both sides of a drum. BTW i like 414 on bottom, 421 on top.

2nd August 2006, 04:05 AM	#10
adamcal Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,099	the AE at work Attached Thumbnails __________________ Adam Calaitzis www.toyland.com.au

2nd August 2006, 04:33 AM	#11
antiguru Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Vancouver, BC Posts: 207	pics! Attached Thumbnails

3rd August 2006, 06:59 AM	#14
jbuntz Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,650	I really love the sound of tom and bottom tom micing, but it's a pain in the ass to set up, it's a pain in the ass to keep up with extra tracks and puts the tuning under a microscope. You have to really have the drums very in tune for this to sound good. There seems to be a bit less cymbal bleed, especially on floor tom with drummer bashing the ride. When I've done it with success, it's been 421 top, 604 bottom. The blend of bottom to top can be much higher on toms than on snare too, which again helps with cymbal bleed. The low end can be really cool if done right. I usually use my one IBP on Kick or guitars while tracking (a lot of times I'm happy time aligning bass, and my ear, not by sight).

3rd August 2006, 07:22 AM	#15
jonboyrock Gear maniac Join Date: May 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 170	I do this all the time. Love it. Sounds great. I use atm 25s top and bottom. The Albini tip is to keep the bottom out of phase and increase the gain until maximum cancellation then flip the phase, sweet as.

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