Login / Register
 
BAE 312a in comparison to vintage API 312
New Reply
Subscribe
SpencerWalters
Thread Starter
#1
28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
  #1
Gear maniac
 
SpencerWalters's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 164

Thread Starter
SpencerWalters is offline
BAE 312a in comparison to vintage API 312

Hey guys,

I've read about the BAE 312a vs the API 512c, and many people say it is more "hi-fi." I've been getting really into API stuff lately and I've heard the vintage stuff is dirtier and has more character (which I like). Would you guys consider the BAE 312a to be more like a vintage API pre or even more modern sounding than the 512c? The term "hi-fi" is too subjective..

-Spencer
#2
28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
  #2
Gear addict
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 468

emitsweet is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpencerWalters View Post
Hey guys,

I've read about the BAE 312a vs the API 512c, and many people say it is more "hi-fi." I've been getting really into API stuff lately and I've heard the vintage stuff is dirtier and has more character (which I like). Would you guys consider the BAE 312a to be more like a vintage API pre or even more modern sounding than the 512c? The term "hi-fi" is too subjective..

-Spencer
BAE 312 are much cleaner. If you want a more vintage API sound look for some used 312 cards with Melville or Huntington opamps and the older transformers. New BAE 312s don't sound like API, the "312" call letters are a marketing thing. The older authentic 500 series racked "Brent Averill" are real 312 cards and sound awesome. But they are real API 312 cards just mounted in 500 series frames. The CAPI preamps are more like API than the BAE
SpencerWalters
Thread Starter
#3
28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
  #3
Gear maniac
 
SpencerWalters's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 164

Thread Starter
SpencerWalters is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet View Post
BAE 312 are much cleaner. If you want a more vintage API sound look for some used 312 cards with Melville or Huntington opamps and the older transformers. New BAE 312s don't sound like API, the "312" call letters are a marketing thing. The older authentic 500 series racked "Brent Averill" are real 312 cards and sound awesome. But they are real API 312 cards just mounted in 500 series frames. The CAPI preamps are more like API than the BAE
Ah man. Not what I wanted to hear! I haven't been able to find vintage 312 preamps anywhere unless it's a vintage api console. Thanks for the info though.

Does anybody know where the new Warm Audio WA12 stands? I know it has a "tone" button that adds vibe, but what exactly does that do to the circuit?
#4
28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
  #4
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Location: Toronto ON
Posts: 267

roy_mattie is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpencerWalters View Post
Ah man. Not what I wanted to hear! I haven't been able to find vintage 312 preamps anywhere unless it's a vintage api console. Thanks for the info though.
Just keep an eye on the Bay. The original 312 cards pop up every so often from guys parting out old consoles.
#5
28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
  #5
Gear addict
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 468

emitsweet is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpencerWalters View Post
I haven't been able to find vintage 312 preamps anywhere
vintage king always has the Brent Averill racked vintage ones, they are less money than the new BAE ones and sound much better IMO. The new BAE 312s are decent mic pres but they don't sound like API, not at all

Brent Averill 312-Vintage API Card w/115K-E (Used) - 500 Series Preamps - 500 Series - Recording - Vintage King Audio

http://vintageking.com/api-312-mic-pre-card-vintage

rack them yourself

http://www.hansenaudio.se/techpage.h...20modification
SpencerWalters
Thread Starter
#6
28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
  #6
Gear maniac
 
SpencerWalters's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 164

Thread Starter
SpencerWalters is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet View Post
vintage king always has the Brent Averill racked vintage ones, they are less money than the new BAE ones and sound much better IMO. The new BAE 312s are decent mic pres but they don't sound like API, not at all

Brent Averill 312-Vintage API Card w/115K-E (Used) - 500 Series Preamps - 500 Series - Recording - Vintage King Audio

API 312 Mic Pre Card (Vintage) - Vintage King Audio

rack them yourself

Hans
Thanks! I think those bae 312s are exactly what i'm looking for. I've heard about them being original 312s racked by brent averill. I think I see a melville 2520 in there also. Tasty.
#7
28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
  #7
Gear Head
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 31

deusex_rapax is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpencerWalters View Post
Does anybody know where the new Warm Audio WA12 stands? I know it has a "tone" button that adds vibe, but what exactly does that do to the circuit?
Its just changes the impedance from 600 ohms to 150 ohms
#8
28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
  #8
Lives for gear
 
shortstory's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: NYC

shortstory is offline
VK should have 4 of my 312s with Melville opamps as I just sold them to VK a few weeks ago. They were out of an old console (sidecar) I had and Brent turned them into 500 modules for me like maybe 20 years ago.

I actually have 2 BAE 312s that have the 3.8k bump (cream colored) and they sound great.

Good luck & have fun!
Quote
1
Baz
#9
28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
  #9
Baz
Lives for gear
 
Baz's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada
Posts: 1,823

Baz is offline
I'd suggest that you listen to the BAE312a's if you ever get a chance. Yes, they are 'cleaner' than the 512's (and cleaner still than my CAPI VP25's) but still really great sounding. Loads of punch with more high freq extension to my ears.I'd say they're in between an API and Daking if I had to try and explain the sound. I personally wish I had at least one to go along with my VP25's as sometimes I find the colour in these things to be too much.
__________________
"Buy good tools, with track records, not GS flavor of the day, and there isn't anything you can't cut and have pride in. The flavor of the day will or won't prove itself over time." - Dan Kennedy 08.08'
Quote
1
#10
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #10
Church of UAD
 
Matt Hepworth's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 2,149

Matt Hepworth is online now
Most vintage 312 builds have the wrong transformer. I've owned pretty much every combination of vintage and modern API pre.

Here's my list of preference from "proper" 312 (best) to furthest from proper 312 (least best):

312 w/ proper trafos and Melville
312 w/ proper trafos and Huntington
Eisen EAC312V (this is the absolute closest to a vintage unit)
VP26 w/ Red Dot
312 w/ Jensen and Mel/Hun
VP312 w/ Red Dot
VP25 w/ Red Dot
VP26 w/ GAR
VP312 w/ GAR
VP25 w/ GAR
OSA
Modern 312
512c
All other clones
312a (Avedis)

I like the Avedis, but it doesn't give me the 312/325 sound I'm looking for.
__________________
Reamping Services for Rock, Heavy Rock, and Metal | World-class Amps, Cabs, Mics, Pres, Converters, and Outboard | PM or email

Here's the 1073PreKey!
Quote
2
#11
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #11
Gear addict
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 468

emitsweet is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Hepworth View Post
Most vintage 312 builds have the wrong transformer. I've owned pretty much every combination of vintage and modern API pre.

Here's my list of preference from "proper" 312 (best) to furthest from proper 312 (least best):

312 w/ proper trafos and Melville
312 w/ proper trafos and Huntington
Eisen EAC312V (this is the absolute closest to a vintage unit)
VP26 w/ Red Dot
312 w/ Jensen and Mel/Hun
VP312 w/ Red Dot
VP25 w/ Red Dot
VP26 w/ GAR
VP312 w/ GAR
VP25 w/ GAR
OSA
Modern 312
512c
All other clones
312a (Avedis)

I like the Avedis, but it doesn't give me the 312/325 sound I'm looking for.
how does a stock vintage 312 card have a wrong transformer?
SpencerWalters
Thread Starter
#12
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #12
Gear maniac
 
SpencerWalters's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 164

Thread Starter
SpencerWalters is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Hepworth View Post
Most vintage 312 builds have the wrong transformer. I've owned pretty much every combination of vintage and modern API pre.

Here's my list of preference from "proper" 312 (best) to furthest from proper 312 (least best):

312 w/ proper trafos and Melville
312 w/ proper trafos and Huntington
Eisen EAC312V (this is the absolute closest to a vintage unit)
VP26 w/ Red Dot
312 w/ Jensen and Mel/Hun
VP312 w/ Red Dot
VP25 w/ Red Dot
VP26 w/ GAR
VP312 w/ GAR
VP25 w/ GAR
OSA
Modern 312
512c
All other clones
312a (Avedis)

I like the Avedis, but it doesn't give me the 312/325 sound I'm looking for.
where does this pre stand on your list? SVT Audio API 325/312 Vintage | Soniccircus.com

also, thank you so much for that list! You guys are all helping me out a ton.
#13
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #13
Gear addict
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 468

emitsweet is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpencerWalters View Post
where does this pre stand on your list? SVT Audio API 325/312 Vintage | Soniccircus.com

also, thank you so much for that list! You guys are all helping me out a ton.
that's not original, it has an aftermarket input transformer. It's got the mid 70s opamp though. That's worth a $100+. But a real 70s API input transformer is 1/3 of the tone. Ideally you want real API transformers. Otherwise you could just buy an Classic API kit and a real opamp for a couple hundred. I wouldn't spend 900 on a clone. You can buy a 512c for $650 and they are better than CAPI.
#14
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #14
Church of UAD
 
Matt Hepworth's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 2,149

Matt Hepworth is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet View Post
how does a stock vintage 312 card have a wrong transformer?
Because most of the ones you see for sale have a Jensen instead of a 2622.
#15
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #15
Church of UAD
 
Matt Hepworth's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 2,149

Matt Hepworth is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet View Post
that's not original, it has an aftermarket input transformer. It's got the mid 70s opamp though. That's worth a $100+. But a real 70s API input transformer is 1/3 of the tone. Ideally you want real API transformers. Otherwise you could just buy an Classic API kit and a real opamp for a couple hundred. I wouldn't spend 900 on a clone. You can buy a 512c for $650 and they are better than CAPI.
Not original indeed, but I think the Ed Anderson transformers are really close to the originals and prefer them to the Jensens. I would not recommend a 512 over the CAPI, if vintage tone is the goal. See my list. I have owned and compared EVERYTHING I put on that list.

@OP - I sold one of my REAL 500 modded 312's for around $700 a year or so back. Don't pay more than that.
#16
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #16
Gear Head
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 34

NAbner is offline
There are two BAE racked vintage 312's with all original input and output transformers and Melville opamps for sale right now...
#17
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #17
Church of UAD
 
Matt Hepworth's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 2,149

Matt Hepworth is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAbner View Post
There are two BAE racked vintage 312's with all original input and output transformers and Melville opamps for sale right now...
The price is where it should be. Are you certain they have AP2622's? Most Averill racked modules I've seen for sale got fitted with Jensens. You should definitely post a pic of the guts (especially the input trafo) in your thread. If they're truly 2622's, I bet they'll sell fast once your pic is added.
SpencerWalters
Thread Starter
#18
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #18
Gear maniac
 
SpencerWalters's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 164

Thread Starter
SpencerWalters is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Hepworth View Post
The price is where it should be. Are you certain they have AP2622's? Most Averill racked modules I've seen for sale got fitted with Jensens. You should definitely post a pic of the guts (especially the input trafo) in your thread. If they're truly 2622's, I bet they'll sell fast once your pic is added.
I'm looking into CAPI right now and the samples I heard sounded great. What do you think of the VP28 opposed to just the VP26? It's a harder build, but apparently it's supposed to sound more like running a mic through a vintage API console as opposed to just a preamp card from the console. Also, how close do you think the red dot 2520s are to the original melville and huntington opamps? Would it be worth it to search out originals, or are they close enough? I'm not exactly worried about having 100% authenticity if it still has that vintage API vibe.
#19
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #19
Church of UAD
 
Matt Hepworth's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 2,149

Matt Hepworth is online now
I like them. My tech and I have built a few. They're a little different. Very good sounding and nice and colored, but a different take on the API vibe. I didn't put them on my list because I didn't feel they're really a 312. They're a hotrodded beast with an API vibe. PM me, if you're interested in going that way.

I like the aggression of the Red Dots. The GAR 2520 is a little heftier in sound, but still very nice. It's a bit more smooth and polite.

Both are more colored than the current API 2520.

The Red Dot is about as close to what I consider the "proper" 2520 I've ever heard.
#20
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #20
Gear addict
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 405

Simma Lugnt is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Hepworth View Post
Most vintage 312 builds have the wrong transformer. I've owned pretty much every combination of vintage and modern API pre.

Here's my list of preference from "proper" 312 (best) to furthest from proper 312 (least best):

312 w/ proper trafos and Melville
312 w/ proper trafos and Huntington
Eisen EAC312V (this is the absolute closest to a vintage unit)
VP26 w/ Red Dot
312 w/ Jensen and Mel/Hun
VP312 w/ Red Dot
VP25 w/ Red Dot
VP26 w/ GAR
VP312 w/ GAR
VP25 w/ GAR
OSA
Modern 312
512c
All other clones
312a (Avedis)

I like the Avedis, but it doesn't give me the 312/325 sound I'm looking for.
Thank you for a valuable info!

I need a fast and punchy preamp for REDDI bass recording.
Quote
1
#21
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #21
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 493

Dave Reid is offline
The vintage 550's are pretty much the same conclusion for me..

Sound way more musical, have the classic tone.

I guess the same as other brands BAE 1073 vs OG Neve 1073.

The OG 312 is a classic..

The vintage models, 312 / 550 are cheaper than buying a new one -
it's a no brainer for anyone..

The original transformers, op amps just don't sound the same to me as
the new ones..
#22
17th May 2014
Old 17th May 2014
  #22
Gear addict
 
blackfinder's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 315

blackfinder is offline
i'm confused from the list previously posted… look at attached pic...
the front panel just says "made from avedis 1122".
is a 312 or what ?
if YES, who knows what's inside this one ?

Attached Thumbnails
BAE 312a in comparison to vintage API 312-brent1122.png  
#23
17th May 2014
Old 17th May 2014
  #23
Gear addict
 
Deuce 225's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 388
My Studio

Deuce 225 is online now
Avedis 1122 vs API 312

New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
SoniqKwality / So much gear, so little time!
21
jsteiger / So much gear, so little time!
128
willi1203 / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
2
Douchebag / Geekslutz forum
0

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.