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Monitor controller highest quality for reasonable price ?
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#31
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiGal View Post
The Benchmark DAC 1 is an excellent 2 channel DAC with built in volume control knob to feed monitors and it's within OP's budget.
Good, but not as good as the Grace m903 or the earlier m902.
#32
27th December 2012
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Originally Posted by Immersion View Post
Well Of course I agree with you, but I also believe in the free market and competition, all should discover what the market has to offer, not just follow others and buy the dangerous audio stuff just because it is the only good stuff...


All I hear from the high end folks is that no other product have a chance, dangerous audio is superior and no one will ever come close... I can understand why people who have invested big money in their products really..have the need to look down on the cheaper product when they have invested big money in dangerous audio...it is like the people have closed eyes, cause it is the industry standard and you have to use what all other use in the industry. If you have big pockets I understand that it is an easy choice... to just buy the best..but for a lot of people... we do not want to pay more then we have to for the sonic quality.

Of course I agree the
I have never heard of "Dangerous Audio" at all - Grace Design is my No.1 monitor controller at the moment.

(PS: though I have probably drunk too much single malt to be posting on a web forum at the moment).
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#33
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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I know Brad McGowan to be a very honest, dedicated person, and if anyone knows "transparent" it is him. I would not discount his advice.

I own the ST and it is of very high quality, including the remote. I would expect the "Source" to be very good.

You are trying to make your decision by reading the opinions of others. While that can help with finding options, I suggest that a better approach would be to judge for yourself. You can buy a Dangerous and a Kush from Vintage King and return one within 14 days.

Best of luck!
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#34
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
  #34
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Hi Op!

There is a thread here somewhere on gs with a wav file which is ran thru the kush, spl & central station + a version straight from daw. According to myself, the kush sounded very, very close the original, the spl sounded fine, but with a certain spl tone i personally do not fancy (heard it also on my auditor, now sold).. The central station sounded um... Not so good.

I have the clips left on my computer, i try upload later if i cannot find the thread again.

My solution was to diy a transformer based passive transformer. Sowters sells these trannies which are made for the sole purpose of attenuating audio. Together with a hq-switch + case it may end up cost ~600$
#35
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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Any of the passive attenuators will provide a simple volume control for you with minimal coloration of the sound. In general, you should keep your cables as short as possible with them, but even there, as long as you aren't putting 50 foot cables on the back end of your passive controller, you'll be fine.

At the low end, consider an A Designs ATTY. About $100- I used one in the field for years to attenuate my speakers. Has a mute button on it as well. The minus is that at very low levels, the right to left tracking can suffer.

From there, I'd look at a Central Station. Being a Presonus piece, the build quality sucks. Horribly. That being said, it has a pretty decent remote and will do the job for the low few hundred bucks.

The next steps up are substantially more expensive. The Coleman Audio stuff is fantastic. A high-quality attenuator with perfect tracking from low to high. You won't have a remote, but an M3P will never give you a problem with sound or functionality.

Once you start going active, you have a lot of options and they are all going to cost some cash. The easier end of things would be a Benchmark DAC 1 which you can set to have your front knob control the output level. You can find those on the used market for a few hundred dollars. Another place to look on the used market for a simple volume control/preamp would be in the home stereo market where Bryston makes a very transparent single rack space preamp/volume control. I think the BP25 is the number for the version that has balanced I/O in addition to the unbalanced I/O. Bryston's stuff is very transparent and high quality. Had one years ago and loved it.

If you must have a remote, the Dangerous stuff is indeed nice, but expensive. If you want to save a few bucks, consider Studio Technologies. I recently got one here and have been very happy with it. It is a digitally controlled analog box and is very high quality. The sound doesn't suffer with it and functionally it has worked out very well. It cost a good amount less than the Dangerous as well.

Beyond that, Grace Design has some first rate boxes as does Cranesong.

Just a few thoughts for you...

--Ben
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#36
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiGal View Post
The Benchmark DAC 1 is an excellent 2 channel DAC with built in volume control knob to feed monitors and it's within OP's budget.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
Good, but not as good as the Grace m903 or the earlier m902.
I'm currently using the DAC1 myself, had considered the Grace Design M903 which like the OP was over my budget, though it's an excellent choice and would make a nice monitor controller but for about the same $$$ today how about the new Benchmark DAC2 HGC reviewed here

DAC2 HGC - 2-Channel Reference Stereo Preamplifier with Heaphone Amp and DSD D/A Converter | Benchmark Media

#37
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
  #37
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The Neumann W482ST monitor-unit or the later Monitora
units are worth to take look at. German vintage studio/broadcast gear
built with high-quality parts (Neumann/Pikatron transformers, Amphenol
relays) etc.
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#38
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio X View Post
I would also consider the Dangerous Source for $899
The Dangerous Source - Dangerous Products - Dangerous Music

Similar quality with less features than the ST for an affordable price.
Does it have the same sonc quality as their ST version ?
The price is right, but it would be wrong to just buy it because it is the right brand. The price seem good, and it have enought functions for my usage.
Immersion
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#39
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx View Post
I know Brad McGowan to be a very honest, dedicated person, and if anyone knows "transparent" it is him. I would not discount his advice.

I own the ST and it is of very high quality, including the remote. I would expect the "Source" to be very good.

You are trying to make your decision by reading the opinions of others. While that can help with finding options, I suggest that a better approach would be to judge for yourself. You can buy a Dangerous and a Kush from Vintage King and return one within 14 days.

Best of luck!
Well I do not live in dreamland unfortunately where I could go to the toystore and try out all toys in optimal environments etc. In big cities in usa this is reality, but from smaller countries you have to import stuff..which can take many weeks.

I do not live in usa..I live in EU. and to return stuff cost money.
#40
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Immersion View Post
Well I do not live in dreamland unfortunately where I could go to the toystore and try out all toys in optimal environments etc. In big cities in usa this is reality, but from smaller countries you have to import stuff..which can take many weeks.

I do not live in usa..I live in EU. and to return stuff cost money.
Which country?

In many EU countries it is possible to listen before you but.
#41
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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#42
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Immersion View Post
Does it have the same sonic quality as their ST version ?
The price is right, but it would be wrong to just buy it because it is the right brand. The price seem good, and it have enought functions for my usage.
Here is some more info:
Dangerous Source convertors?
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#43
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio X View Post
Here is some more info:
Dangerous Source convertors?
Thanks, it is really a mysterium that no one did mention it before...I was not aware of it's existance..cause I did not saw it on the thomann store in germany... It is between kush and source now then
#44
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
  #44
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Hi. To the OP. I strongly suggest you check out something like the TC Electronic BMC-2, or a simple Cambridge Dac. These are great value and offer excellent basic volume control. I own & use a TC unit for my secondary daw setup (purchased 2nd hand very cheaply) and it easily hangs with the Mytek, RME and Euphonics dacs I also own. It has a better tabletop profile than many rack units, has a decent headphone amp, good metering, and a simple and accurate volume knob that tracks well across both channels, even at low volume. The TC has increased in price since it's initial release, and is a real Swiss army knife unit, with lots of functionality at a very low price. There is even one on offer in the classifieds (no connection to me!). Cheers George.

Sent from my GT-I9100
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#45
28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
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ok I have been reading now this night, it turns out the dangerous audio source provide the same sonic quality as their more expensive boxes, so it has been decide now I will buy the Dangerous audio Source, thanks for the person who did mention it, I am very surprised that not more people was talking about it... thanks for help anyone...
I am still interested to try the kush main gain some day!.
#46
28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Immersion View Post
I hope it is not what they say about gearslutz, the people only recommend stuff from their own country, like americans only like american stuff and diss all german stuff vice versa...
Huh??! I've seen no evidence of that. Who is the "they" that are saying this, and where exactly is it being said (links please!).
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#47
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Immersion View Post
I know Dangerous audio is the benchmark pretty much...
Really, what makes you say that? I'd say that the Avocet is more of a "benchmark" than the Dangerous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Immersion View Post
But the price..is just too much..considering how much other things I can get for that money.
While not the ST, I bought my DBox for $850, used. I've spent a lot of time behind an Avocet and while not equal in features, it's totally on par in sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Immersion View Post
On the forum all I can find about the kush gain train is self promotion by the kush company and designer flooding the forum with self promotion.

I have now been reading through the whole forum all threads about the Kush, 80 of all posts are posted by people who is from the company who have ben involved in the design.
another 15% is from a guy who promote his webstore. the rest 5% is from users, but none of the seem to have been able to compare to the out of reach hind end stuff like dangerous audio etc.
I think this is totally unfair to UBK and if anything, off-side and a bit of an ignorant remark. UBK is one of the humblest "pimps" I've seen on these forums, who often recommends and gives props to other manufacturers who could be considered competitors. So much so that I'd like to sample his products first hand, simply based on the way he carries himself on GS. Unfortunately I've never had the chance to try any of his gear [yet]

If I was looking at a passive monitoring solution, I'd look at the Kush first, and if budget was a concern and I was looking for something not as slick, I'd be getting the RADIAL MC3, hands down. And yes, this would be partially based on my Canadian bias and desire to support local cats when possible, even if everything RADIAL makes is bullet proof

Maybe it's an 'english as a second language' thing that makes your statement appear harsher than you intended but IMO, it's way off the mark . . .
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#48
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #48
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.

We've been searching high and low for an analogue monitor controller to suit our needs - for years.

So, we're currently having a custom monitor controller built in England - it should be almost done.

As soon as we take delivery and set it up, I'll report back!



.
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#49
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Immersion View Post
kush audio main gain is said to be extremlt natural sounding...problem is...a very few people seem to have tried.. and those who tried it have no tried high end stuff and can't compare with the high end stuff...

I know you're pimp-averse, so I won't editorialize, these are just quotes from SOS's latest review:

"What you don’t get is any noticeable coloration of the sound: what goes in is what comes out — it compared well in this respect with my Dangerous D-box, which is no slouch. In more technical terms, the frequency response is within ±0.1dB from 2Hz to 20kHz, and only 3dB down at 200kHz. Impressive."

"In summary, this is a very transparent-sounding, active, modular monitor-control system — and a bloody good one at that! It provides a simple interface for a simple but important job, and does so without messing with the sound. It may not be the cheapest monitor controller system in the world, but it’s still keenly priced in relation to many units of comparable quality."



It is true that not many Gain Train users report their experiences on the forums; I think that's because monitor controllers aren't very sexy or exciting, the good ones just do their job so you can do yours, they literally become invisible to the user (as they should).

Compressors, they get our hearts beating fast, they make things blow up, and I think people are more inspired to write about stuff like that. I know I am.

On the flipside, not one single person that I know of --- anywhere --- has reported using the Main Gain and found it to be colored. Not one, and there are almost 500 out there at this point. They don't show up for sale very often either. I think that says something.


Gregory Scott - ubk
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#50
2nd January 2013
Old 2nd January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
I know you're pimp-averse, so I won't editorialize, these are just quotes from SOS's latest review:

"What you don’t get is any noticeable coloration of the sound: what goes in is what comes out — it compared well in this respect with my Dangerous D-box, which is no slouch. In more technical terms, the frequency response is within ±0.1dB from 2Hz to 20kHz, and only 3dB down at 200kHz. Impressive."

"In summary, this is a very transparent-sounding, active, modular monitor-control system — and a bloody good one at that! It provides a simple interface for a simple but important job, and does so without messing with the sound. It may not be the cheapest monitor controller system in the world, but it’s still keenly priced in relation to many units of comparable quality."


Sounds like a really good review!



It is true that not many Gain Train users report their experiences on the forums; I think that's because monitor controllers aren't very sexy or exciting, the good ones just do their job so you can do yours, they literally become invisible to the user (as they should).

Compressors, they get our hearts beating fast, they make things blow up, and I think people are more inspired to write about stuff like that. I know I am.

On the flipside, not one single person that I know of --- anywhere --- has reported using the Main Gain and found it to be colored. Not one, and there are almost 500 out there at this point. They don't show up for sale very often either. I think that says something.


Gregory Scott - ubk
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#51
3rd January 2013
Old 3rd January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
I know you're pimp-averse, so I won't editorialize, these are just quotes from SOS's latest review:

"What you don’t get is any noticeable coloration of the sound: what goes in is what comes out — it compared well in this respect with my Dangerous D-box, which is no slouch. In more technical terms, the frequency response is within ±0.1dB from 2Hz to 20kHz, and only 3dB down at 200kHz. Impressive."

"In summary, this is a very transparent-sounding, active, modular monitor-control system — and a bloody good one at that! It provides a simple interface for a simple but important job, and does so without messing with the sound. It may not be the cheapest monitor controller system in the world, but it’s still keenly priced in relation to many units of comparable quality."



It is true that not many Gain Train users report their experiences on the forums; I think that's because monitor controllers aren't very sexy or exciting, the good ones just do their job so you can do yours, they literally become invisible to the user (as they should).

Compressors, they get our hearts beating fast, they make things blow up, and I think people are more inspired to write about stuff like that. I know I am.

On the flipside, not one single person that I know of --- anywhere --- has reported using the Main Gain and found it to be colored. Not one, and there are almost 500 out there at this point. They don't show up for sale very often either. I think that says something.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Sounds very good and convincing indeed...
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#52
4th January 2013
Old 4th January 2013
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#53
5th January 2013
Old 5th January 2013
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Perhaps I missed it, just killing time on my iPhone...

Has nobody mentioned Goldpoint? I love them. It's exactly what you want: a volume knob and nothing else but extremely high quality and amongst the cheapest of options here, although initially the idea of a $400 volume knob can be a little shocking.

Further, while skimming I didn't see anyone mention the importance of switched gain settings. This is a must-have for any professional audio production room in my opinion.

I'm sure the Kush sounds good but it's not switched, it's not passive so the extra cables would annoy me (aside from the whole passive/active debate), the knob facing up (rather than toward me) so I couldn't always see where the gain was set would annoy me, the extra desk real estate taken up would annoy me, and it's expensive compared to other very good options. I could be really nitpicky and say I think it's rather ugly too, but much of the rest of my room is also ugly so I'll stop there.

I upgraded from the Goldpoint SA1X to SA2X-O and am still loving it a couple years into it. It's fed from a Benchmark DAC1 and a small/cheap/passive custom box for L mute, R mute, L/R swap and mono. I haven't been really impressed by any other solution.
#54
5th January 2013
Old 5th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Immersion View Post
I am building a studio, it looks like I am forced to buy a monitor controller against my will, I was about to buy one of the SPL's controllers cause I thought they were ultra transperent etc, but reading on this forum a totally new reality emerge, where it seem that they are not transperent at all and can't be compared Dangerous audio, which is not even comparable.
This is absolute total BS. I own both and I own an incredible hybrid studio that is extremely quite. If this was true, I would know it. I believe about 20% of all info on this site and half of that is debatable.
SPL and Dangerous are the kings in hybrid DAW systems. The 2381 is awesome and a great buy. The ST is more expensive, has a few more features and is slightly more sonically refined. Most people would never know the difference between the two.

The 2381 is simpler to set up. The ST needs additional Dsub cabling. Take your pick for what you think you need. But as far as quality, both companies excel.

The SPL 2381 is the best value in that price range, bar none.
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#55
5th January 2013
Old 5th January 2013
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I don't think I've seen a poster with as strong opinions as this guy,based on lack of pertinent informed info and hearsay
#56
5th January 2013
Old 5th January 2013
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#57
5th January 2013
Old 5th January 2013
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The Dangerous Source is one of the very best DA available, just near the Forssell. If you want to (allmost) reach the quality of a Forssell, use it with a Vovox powerplug + bypass the volume pot and find a ultra transparent volume pot by using the direct out in TRS and it's done.
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#58
5th January 2013
Old 5th January 2013
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#59
5th January 2013
Old 5th January 2013
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I don't know about y'all, but I'm really surprised no one came back to the SPL thing. I've been really happy with my 2Control for a good year. The other room I work out of from time to time has their Monitor/Talkback Controller. Both have worked great for me. Obviously I'll be thrilled when finances allow for something a bit more robust (avocet, etc.) but as far as a big knob goes, I have zero complaints! Maybe take another look?
#60
5th January 2013
Old 5th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertine View Post
I don't know about y'all, but I'm really surprised no one came back to the SPL thing. I've been really happy with my 2Control for a good year. The other room I work out of from time to time has their Monitor/Talkback Controller. Both have worked great for me. Obviously I'll be thrilled when finances allow for something a bit more robust (avocet, etc.) but as far as a big knob goes, I have zero complaints! Maybe take another look?
Yeah, another satisfied SPL 2Control user here. I didn't speak up when I first read this thread because I am trying to not get involved in debates about stuff like this when the other side seems to have such strong opinions (well founded or not). It winds up feeling like wasted time.

In any event, the SPL 2Control has the perfect feature set for me. As far as sound goes, I think it is very transparent. I don't know where the OP got the idea that it messes up the sound. The worst I have heard anyone say about the 2Control is that it might have scratchy pots, or the pots might have some L/R inequality at very low volumes. I have not had those problems myself, but I have read that others have. It was probably a temporary "bad batch" of pots from a supplier. It happens.

If the OP wanted to take a second look at the 2Control, it would not be wasted effort. Good features, good sound, doesn't cost a fortune. One would think that it fits the criteria he set out.
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