Recording Acoustic Guitar

[Jason Poulin]

Large or small diaphram mics...

which do you prefer and what placement?

cardioid, omni, figure 8? Room mics?

I'm recording some tracks this weekend. Just looking for some ideas...

main mics that I prefer are SD U99, 2 KM184's, TLM 103
" pres " " " GR-MP2 NV, 2 VT-737's, API 3124

Thanks!

Jason

[Steve Smith]

Wow.. the first reply that came to my mind when I read your post was ... YES.

It is totally dependant on what mood I am in and what we are going for on that track, but I recently had great success with a pair of 184s in XY about 4 inches from the neck about 2 inches up the neck from the soundhole positioned so that the bass strings were "left" and the high strings were "right" pan to taste, really worked well on soem big rhythm parts and allowed for some trippy panning on a fingerpicked passage. I also really dig my Soundelux U95S in a happy place 1 fott in front of the guitar... and I read a post by George Massenburg about doing what I did in XY with a M/S pair.. that also sounded interesting..

Now I want to record more acoustic guitar parts....

[Ckevperry]

As a guitar player/ engineer I find that acoustic guitar is one of the hardest instruments to record satisfactorily. (is that a word?)

First is the guitar itself, which is all over the map with different brands. But placement is SO crucial with acoustics. You have to demean yourself...get on all fours and move your ear around in front of the guitar listening for all the many little nodes, sweet spots, ugly spots, etc... stick a mic where it sounds nice. Don't stick one where it doesn't.

Mics are a flavor of the week for me too. Sometimes a km84...sometimes a e47, or a at4040, or 4060....I've heard a Brauner valvet knock my socks off before.

Preamps are the only place I tend to have a trend. I prefer the cleaner side of the world....the original great river is my favorite (the transformer version I should note) , but my Crane Song SPider doesn't suck either.

[XHipHop]

That TOTALLY depends on the track for me. Lately I've been doing a lot of heavier rock mixes and have just wanted some acoustic guitar "sparkle" in parts so I've been using mics with extended top ends.

When I'm using a pair though, I like to use two different mics and pan them differently. I like the effect of having slightly different sounds panned wide.

[Cornvalley]

Hey Jason...something different than the out in front placement would be over the right shoulder about six inches above and a couple inches in front of the lower bout pointing down at the bridge or slightly in front. Put your MS or XY in cardiod there and the tone will be solid. Sounds more like from the players perspective.

[Jason Poulin]

Thanks guys, this is all right on.

Jason

[syra]

I tried something close to what steve said about a year ago with good results...here some pics from the session...

[syra]

-

[syra]

It doesn't let me post more than 2 pics...

[syra]

oh...thats better

[doug_hti]

i usually use one close mic for things that will be "doubled" and panned. If it is more prominent or isn't going to be doubled, I will mic with one close and a room mic.
For mic position usually 4 to 6 inches up the neck and out for a starting place and have the guitar player move his sitting position til you find the right distance and place (without looking), then readjust the mic or chair.

As far as mics/pre. The best combo I've tried that had sparkle and body with very little eq, was a BLUE Blueberry through a 737 with maybe a db of low mids knocked out from proximity. Hard to beat the 184s as well. Trust me, if the player is good, you definately have the gear to capture a great recording and multiple choices at that.

I've also used the 99, a bit warmer, but without the punch.
I'd really guess that your 737 and 103 (half way similar to a blueberry) would probably be a good match with your 99 and API or GR for room.

Don't let other people's negative bias to the 737's pre steer you away from trying.

[RKrizman]

Originally posted by doug_hti

Don't let other people's negative bias to the 737's pre steer you away from trying. [/b]

I love my 737's on acoustic, usually with a 184 pointed at the 12th fret, 8 or 12 inches out.

That being said, a friend of mine got an absolutely amazing ac gtr sound here the other day by pointing a 103 straight at the soundhole, but 18 inches away (in a very dry room).

-R

[robmix]

Here goes my usualy josephson endorsement. Josephson C42mp's into a Great River MP2nv then an Alan smart C2 with no more then 2-4 db of compression. I'm in heaven. Since I've gone with this combo I've had more compliments on my acoustic recordings than ever.

Rob

[Jam]

At the moment I am loving KM184-Chandler TG2- LA2A ( not much compression ) Bright and plenty of pick attack. Sounds fine on it's own and sits wonderfully in with every thing else if you roll of a bit of bottom end.

Jam

[5down1up]

414 for the body , 451 for the neck ... not to close as far as i am concerned . used a isa 428 last time , recording it on 2 tracks , sending it back to my whackie using 1 channel , direct out it to a tube comp , sending it back to my mixer and blending to taste , a little reverb , maybe some bass rolloff and some high end boost , thats all it takes for me . good luck

[Sir Bob]

My Martin HD-28, a rosewood dreadnought, is very bottom heavy and this poses a problem. Anyone have some suggestions?

Jimmy Page played a D-28 and it seemed to work nice. CS & N were able to record Martins too.

[atticus]

Originally posted by Sir Bob
My Martin HD-28, a rosewood dreadnought, is very bottom heavy and this poses a problem. Anyone have some suggestions?

Jimmy Page played a D-28 and it seemed to work nice. CS & N were able to record Martins too.

Weren't Jimmy Page's acoustic tracks fairly heavily processed? I have read that he was a fan of the RCA BA-6A limiters.

[dave-G]

Originally posted by Sir Bob
My Martin HD-28, a rosewood dreadnought, is very bottom heavy and this poses a problem. Anyone have some suggestions?

You might try using a good omni, like a B&K (DPA) 4003, since it has no proximity effect, yet captures nice bottom. Also, get a little distance off the instrument, and avoid the low-mid "beam" that comes from the hole. I've been happy recording a D28 with an M49, or a KM84 about 3-4 feet off the point where the neck meets the body, and angled towards the strum/hole area, but on a really "woofy" guitar, or when the part or the player enhances the "muck" regions, sometimes an omni affords better placement options.

-dave

[Tim L]

Originally posted by Sir Bob
My Martin HD-28, a rosewood dreadnought, is very bottom heavy and this poses a problem. Anyone have some suggestions?

Try placing an omni over the players right shoulder (left shoulder if lefty) just in front of the guitar body, about ear level or a tad higher. If you're OD'ing make sure you have a decent 'closed ear' pair of phones on the talent.


My favorite set up lately for acoustic gtr is a BLUE Kiwi in the 'over the shoulder' position (omni or a setting close to it) with a Sank M160DX off the 12 fret or so pretty much straight at the fretboard. Print to seperate tracks. Of course this varies depending on the instrument and what role it wants to play in the final product.

[Jason Poulin]

Yeah babeh! Yeah!!!

post them pics up folks!

This is all good. I'm keeping all these in mind for this weekend's session.
Thanks


Jason

[BobbyPeru]

About those pictures...

Well, the player's wearing pants and a sweater, but the photographer(who I'm assuming is the engineer) is wearing shorts(boxers?) and has no shoes on.

This wouldn't happen to be a home studio would it?;)

Bobby Peru
Milwaukee, WI

[Steve Smith]

Originally posted by BobbyPeru
About those pictures...

Well, the player's wearing pants and a sweater, but the photographer(who I'm assuming is the engineer) is wearing shorts(boxers?) and has no shoes on.

This wouldn't happen to be a home studio would it?;)

Bobby Peru
Milwaukee, WI

they wre recording an " adult" soundtrack, or it was a live taping of " music to shave by..."

[Randall]

with the Jumbo bodied maple Washburn custom I am enjoying at the moment my Sony C-74 shotgun is going above and beyond the call of duty all by it's little old lonesome, stumbled across a lucky combination I guess, and this is using the pre from a Mackie 8 buss stranger things have happened

[Jason Poulin]

When putting two mics on the acoustic, I know phase is very imprtant. I almost always ignore to check in mono and just relied on listening for a good tone.

Does anyone usually knock one mic out of phase and find it's null spot (checking with the other mic in mono)and phase reverse it to get it almost perfectly in phase with the other mic?

Or do you just really on what your ears are telling you?

Curious to know.

Damn! another good aplication for the IBP... gotta get one!

I saw a few post on people using more than two mics on an acoustic. Anyone into this?

Thanks

Jason

[Steve Smith]

Originally posted by Jason Poulin

Does anyone usually knock one mic out of phase and find it's null spot (checking with the other mic in mono)and phase reverse it to get it almost perfectly in phase with the other mic?

I am generally checking things in one speaker mono, adn if it sounds good , it is good.. I will use a meter if it is available , I generally like to have a meter and an analyzer running just for the occasional reference. ( on acousic for instance, a RTA can be really cool for setting a HPF to get rid of the subsonic crap that is meaningless to the tone .. I am talking about the room noise you can find down in the 30 hz reigon.. it is interesting to see what is there sometimes, but remember, the ears do still rule the roost!

[Tim L]

Originally posted by Jason Poulin
... Damn! another good aplication for the IBP... gotta get one!

The IBP can be an absolute god send for this! Why I didn't buy one of these things sooner is beyond me... my thick Irish skull maybe?

A lot of times, by moving mic's around, you're forced to compromise between best sounding mic position and best phase relationship. The IBP allows you to use the mic placements you feel sound best individualy and still have them play nice together phase wise.

------------------------------------

Though I wrote these words from my own experience, they did come out rather closely to what's in the manual. You'll find it on pg.3 of the IBP manual.

[syra]

Yup...That was a home studio situation...right in the kitchen...ahh..happy student memories...

As far for the shorts and hair...I'm Greek what can I say....

[Brad Lunde]

I've gotten a lot of over the top comments in here about Brauner VM1's on acoustic, an application I didn't really envision as a big one myself. Paul Reed Smith just bought one for this reason (after a lot of shoot outs), and several engineers (Kevin Agunas, Eric Valentine, etc) tell me its THE best acoustic guitar mic they've ever heard. Brauner's do really work on "stringed things", as we do a lot of business in LA for scoring applications.
Brad

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by Brad Lunde
I've gotten a lot of over the top comments in here about Brauner VM1's on acoustic, an application I didn't really envision as a big one myself.

I can see (based on my memory of how the Brauner sounds) that it could be an excellent mic for acoustics. Of course, since I almost always record acoustic guitar in stereo, it could get a bit pricey...

[Jason Poulin]

Hey guys,

thanks for all your replies to this thread.

I chose an XY configuration with the two KM184's through the API 3124.

I put one mic a little past the soundhole since the guitar is a little bassy.

The other is pointing close to the headstock, like I said, the guitar is bassy.

All in phase, at least to my ears (checked in mono) I also added a SD U99 through the API. The U99 was in Omni position (actually about three quarters in omni and a tad towards cardioid) and pointed at the 12th fret. Nice clean guitar sound.

I blended all of that with a line in (fishman pickup) from the guitar that ended up through a GR MP2-NV

Everything together composed a very nice crisp sound.

Thanks for the tips... thanks for the rockin sound!

here are some pics (the overhead pic angle is a little off... the KM184 are in XY)

Jason