Login / Register
 
Digitally controlled analog mixer.
New Reply
Subscribe
caronte23
Thread Starter
#1
11th December 2012
Old 11th December 2012
  #1
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Rome, Italy
Posts: 186

Thread Starter
caronte23 is offline
Digitally controlled analog mixer.

Hi everyone, just out of curiousity, is there out there an analog mixer all in a rack, with recallable volumes, eqs, dynamics sends, pans etc but all without physical knobs faders or motors...to be controlled from a remote digital surface..
Something like this could also be integrated with pro tools and ICON or any other daw using plugins and midi controllers... would be great in studios for total recalls of entire mixes on an analog system, but also in big live outdoor situations where you could keep the analog rack safe in a truck.
What do you guys think?
#2
11th December 2012
Old 11th December 2012
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Musician's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,220

Musician is online now
Check out the GREINER Summation. It is controllable from your DAW. It has no EQs though but then that would skyrocket the price for sure!
Pair it with a Bettermaker EQ and you're set..
caronte23
Thread Starter
#3
11th December 2012
Old 11th December 2012
  #3
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Rome, Italy
Posts: 186

Thread Starter
caronte23 is offline
I see that GREINER may be not out yet, but anyways I don't see why big companies like SSL NEVE etc didn't go in this direction, they could even do everything in separate modules to get into home studios as well, but so that if one wanted could put up a whole 64ch console...
#4
11th December 2012
Old 11th December 2012
  #4
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney via London
Posts: 23,291
My Recordings/Credits

Send a message via Skype™ to psycho_monkey
psycho_monkey is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by caronte23 View Post
I see that GREINER may be not out yet, but anyways I don't see why big companies like SSL NEVE etc didn't go in this direction, they could even do everything in separate modules to get into home studios as well, but so that if one wanted could put up a whole 64ch console...
Euphonix CS2000.....Harrison Series 10.

Both great consoles, both capable of very clever stuff...however in practice, no good for commercial studios with clients who just wanted to be able to sit down and work with hassles, not reading a manual. I knew a few places with Euphonix...they ended up not getting used and switched out for either traditional consoles or control surfaces.

There's plenty of Euphonix for sale second hand, at cut down prices...because once they go wrong, it's going to be a devil to fix them.

The scale down thing is a nice idea but financially I guess doesn't work quite as well as you might think. Essentially that's what an X-Rack is doing...
__________________
Recent Indie credits include:

Jack Robert Hardman (New EP now on sale), Morgan Joanel,
Edens March
and High-Tails.

If I've helped you out, please consider supporting these artists as a favour to me!

Major label credits include Pharrell/Alicia Keys, Ricky Martin (Aus #3), John Legend, Taylor Henderson (Aus #1 ARIA Album), Di-Rect (Dutch #1 single), etc
Quote
1
#5
11th December 2012
Old 11th December 2012
  #5
70% Coffee, 30% Beer
 
Doc Mixwell's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Quincy, MA
Posts: 10,272

Send a message via Skype™ to Doc Mixwell
Doc Mixwell is offline
The Great River MixMaster20 is a rack unit and has a helpful Mac/Pc USB - GUI control application for snap shot recall with the storable parameters (pan, level) on channels 5-20
Quote
1
caronte23
Thread Starter
#6
12th December 2012
Old 12th December 2012
  #6
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Rome, Italy
Posts: 186

Thread Starter
caronte23 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Euphonix CS2000.....Harrison Series 10.

Both great consoles, both capable of very clever stuff...however in practice, no good for commercial studios with clients who just wanted to be able to sit down and work with hassles, not reading a manual. I knew a few places with Euphonix...they ended up not getting used and switched out for either traditional consoles or control surfaces.

There's plenty of Euphonix for sale second hand, at cut down prices...because once they go wrong, it's going to be a devil to fix them.

The scale down thing is a nice idea but financially I guess doesn't work quite as well as you might think. Essentially that's what an X-Rack is doing...
Great input! The Harrison sounds juicy ... the x-rack is great, but imagine all automatable and recallable, even if you anly had say 4 eqs you could still freeze tracks and then recall the settings for changes.. it's a completely different world...
#7
12th December 2012
Old 12th December 2012
  #7
Lives for gear
 
VT-MHE's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 521

VT-MHE is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by caronte23 View Post
Great input! The Harrison sounds juicy ... the x-rack is great, but imagine all automatable and recallable, even if you anly had say 4 eqs you could still freeze tracks and then recall the settings for changes.. it's a completely different world...
The harrison is juicy! I had one they sound amazing. But unless you have a tech, using harrison is going to kill you financially. Very nickle and dime company, will extract what they can from you. I use a euphonix now (cs-ii)/ cs2000. Digitally controlled analog is great! Just make wise decisions before you buy.
#8
12th December 2012
Old 12th December 2012
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Saudade's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Birthplace of the Soundblaster
Posts: 647

Saudade is offline
I remember reading some threads abt such a mixer (discontinued) manufactured by Netherlands I think, can't recall the name, but supposedly high-quality and very affordable. Digitally controlled, with the analog interface on racks, the mixer has a very compact footprint. Any one can chime in?
__________________
Koi
http://poplin.bandcamp.com
#9
12th December 2012
Old 12th December 2012
  #9
drake.ch
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 640

jimdrake is offline
Euphonix!
Quote
1
#10
12th December 2012
Old 12th December 2012
  #10
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney via London
Posts: 23,291
My Recordings/Credits

Send a message via Skype™ to psycho_monkey
psycho_monkey is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by caronte23 View Post
Great input! The Harrison sounds juicy ... the x-rack is great, but imagine all automatable and recallable, even if you anly had say 4 eqs you could still freeze tracks and then recall the settings for changes.. it's a completely different world...
Mmm, the people willing to pay for such tech are minimal. I rarely automate eqs; if I need to I parallel the channel or more usually do it ITB. Same with ssl dynamics. What's the need? If it cost 1k more per channel for automated pots, would you pay it?
#11
12th December 2012
Old 12th December 2012
  #11
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney via London
Posts: 23,291
My Recordings/Credits

Send a message via Skype™ to psycho_monkey
psycho_monkey is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by VT-MHE View Post
The harrison is juicy! I had one they sound amazing. But unless you have a tech, using harrison is going to kill you financially. Very nickle and dime company, will extract what they can from you. I use a euphonix now (cs-ii)/ cs2000. Digitally controlled analog is great! Just make wise decisions before you buy.
They are amazing consoles once you know them. But god help you if your one goes wrong!
#12
12th December 2012
Old 12th December 2012
  #12
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 813

nomoreflakes is offline
Euphonix sound really great too.

Real shame it didn't take off. Great idea : Too complicated.
#13
12th December 2012
Old 12th December 2012
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Nick Morris's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,238

Nick Morris is offline
Euphonix cs series consoles and Harrison series 10 or twelve console. Both sound great. I looked into getting a Harrison, but upkeep on it sounded like too much for me. I own a euphonix instead. Upkeep is practically zero so far for the almost five years I've had it. Getting to really know the console, it really becomes less of a scary piece if you had to fix something. The controller section is pretty simple. The modules are inexpensive if something fails and it's built incredibly well.

The thing I see as the weak point for these consoles are the computers that are part of the system. Fortunately people are almost done working on a solution for using a new computer and porting everything to pieces available today and the foreseeable future. Pentium dos computers are sooo 1993.
__________________
www.ElaireStudios.com
Robo-Mic RMS robotic remote controlled mic stands aimed at mic'ing amps
Quote
1
#14
12th December 2012
Old 12th December 2012
  #14
Lives for gear
 
unit7's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: SoFo,Stockholm,Sweden

unit7 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
But god help you if your one goes wrong!
Yep, Pete Clark of Harrison is indeed our savior!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris View Post
Pentium dos computers are sooo 1993.
So are Apple II VXs (for Harrison Series 12)...
Attached Images
 
__________________
Doug Fearn: What you are going to hear is my musical taste about what I think things should sound like....and there's no reason why that should be what you like/
.....I think it's important to realize that we're all different,we're all individuals. If we all made our recordings sound the same it would really be a boring world
#15
12th December 2012
Old 12th December 2012
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Nick Morris's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,238

Nick Morris is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by unit7 View Post
Yep, Pete Clark of Harrison is indeed our savior!


So are Apple II VX (for Harrison Series 12)...
+1
#16
12th December 2012
Old 12th December 2012
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 6,770

Matt Syson is online now
Hi
Calrec, Audix, Neve, SSL and others had 'assignable' desks from early to mid '80's from a time when PCs weren't that established as a platform. Thus the desk manufacturers used their own 'hard/software' for essential control functions and left the 'PC as a 'front end' or maintenance tool.
By the time these desks were really getting going, the world moved on to the possibility of fully digital audio and eventually it will be good enough to replace analogue.
It is all possible but not at the price 'punters' are willing to pay.
Matt S
__________________
Matt S
www.mseaudio.co.uk
#17
12th December 2012
Old 12th December 2012
  #17
Lives for gear
 
juniorhifikit's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Paris/SanFrancisco
Posts: 1,469

Send a message via AIM to juniorhifikit Send a message via Skype™ to juniorhifikit
juniorhifikit is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by caronte23 View Post
I see that GREINER may be not out yet, but anyways I don't see why big companies like SSL NEVE etc didn't go in this direction, they could even do everything in separate modules to get into home studios as well, but so that if one wanted could put up a whole 64ch console...
Sum.mation is most certainly available - check the website for details. RTAS plugin is currently available; AU is in final beta, and VST is not long off.

FWIW, the last record I mixed in France was at a studio with a Euphonix when they bought them. While it's a cool console and sounds pretty good, it's complicated to operate and broke down often. Constantly trying to figure out if it was my operator error or the console bugging, was rather distracting from the mix process. The owner bought a second one for spare parts.

Too bad Avid didn't make a Pro Tools control interface for the Euphonix when they bought them - but then again, that's not their mantra.
__________________
sum.mation
analog summing & DAW-driven automation
www.greinerengineering.com

Last edited by juniorhifikit; 12th December 2012 at 06:50 PM.. Reason: clarity
#18
12th December 2012
Old 12th December 2012
  #18
Lives for gear
 
cinealta's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,010

cinealta is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris View Post
I own a euphonix instead.
Nick, did you ever get the moving faders retrofit working on your CS2000 (MIDIbox etc)?
#19
12th December 2012
Old 12th December 2012
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Nick Morris's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,238

Nick Morris is offline
Yes I did!
#20
12th December 2012
Old 12th December 2012
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Nick Morris's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,238

Nick Morris is offline
The way it works now is that you can use the faders as normal or turn them on and use the DAW automation to control the consoles faders. Took a while to figure out all the kinks.
#21
13th December 2012
Old 13th December 2012
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Nick Morris's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,238

Nick Morris is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by juniorhifikit View Post
FWIW, the last record I mixed in France was at a studio with a Euphonix when they bought them. While it's a cool console and sounds pretty good, it's complicated to operate and broke down often. Constantly trying to figure out if it was my operator error or the console bugging, was rather distracting from the mix process. The owner bought a second one for spare parts.

Too bad Avid didn't make a Pro Tools control interface for the Euphonix when they bought them - but then again, that's not their mantra.
Yikes! Sounds horrible, and unlike any experience I have ever heard with the CS series consoles. Its definitely not a console I would put in a commercial room because of its complexity, but it sure is a dream come true for a private facility/producer/mix engineer that will learn all it can do.
Quote
1
#22
15th December 2012
Old 15th December 2012
  #22
Lives for gear
 
studjo's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,474

Send a message via AIM to studjo Send a message via Skype™ to studjo
studjo is offline
just to put things into perspective - upkeep on my Harrison Series 12 has been close to zero (about 5 years of use - not full production facility but one man shop and quite busy) - Sound is the best I ever heard coming out of a 2bus. Yup I read the manual but I did the same when I bought the D&R and the Harrison is really straight forward in use (even when you use all possible automation ...)

Love my Harry!
Quote
1
#23
15th December 2012
Old 15th December 2012
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Nick Morris's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,238

Nick Morris is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by studjo View Post
just to put things into perspective - upkeep on my Harrison Series 12 has been close to zero (about 5 years of use - not full production facility but one man shop and quite busy) - Sound is the best I ever heard coming out of a 2bus. Yup I read the manual but I did the same when I bought the D&R and the Harrison is really straight forward in use (even when you use all possible automation ...)

Love my Harry!
If I ever get another console, it will be this one. I just love em. That's great to hear no problems with yours. Euphonix CS2000 in one room, Harrison series 12 in the other. Sounds like fun to me
#24
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #24
Gear maniac
 
abrstudios's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 165
My Studio

abrstudios is offline
Just buy a Dangerous Music 2-BUS LT 16 channels of D/A (fully expandable)and add it to your current mixer controller. Your recall settings are in your DAW and you get a big sound for way less. just 2 cents.
__________________
--

Alex "Q-Da$h" Medina
CEO, Vision Kings Music Group LLC.
Audio Mixing Engineer
Producer/Writer
Email: qdash@visionkings.com
Alt. Email: visionkings12@gmail.com

mobile: 478-396-0003
URL: http://www.visionkings.com
www.facebook.com/visionkings
www.facebook.com/alexqdashmedina


"Let's Make Our Dreams Reality"

#25
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Nick Morris's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,238

Nick Morris is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by abrstudios View Post
Just buy a Dangerous Music 2-BUS LT 16 channels of D/A (fully expandable)and add it to your current mixer controller. Your recall settings are in your DAW and you get a big sound for way less. just 2 cents.
Not even close to the same thing(features, sound) But certainly usable.
#26
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #26
Lives for gear
 
studjo's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,474

Send a message via AIM to studjo Send a message via Skype™ to studjo
studjo is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris View Post
Not even close to the same thing(features, sound) But certainly usable.
I totally agree - it's a different workflow on a real console - absolutely. There are the ergonomics, muscle memory ... and IMVHO the sound. I mixing a record right now where the tracking eng. did some EQing in PT. I replaced those and everybody was amazed how much better an analog EQ sounds compared to the digital versions ... don't get me started on compressors

In my world there's no other way but that's just me
#27
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Nick Morris's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,238

Nick Morris is offline
And the Harrison's EQ sounds about as good as it gets IMO. Plugin eq is no fun at all.
Quote
1
#28
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #28
Gear maniac
 
abrstudios's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 165
My Studio

abrstudios is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris View Post
Not even close to the same thing(features, sound) But certainly usable.
I do use plenty of analog outboard gear in conjunction with mixing through my dangerous music products for the analog punch and dynamics. I was just saying it does work. But I can also agree with the muscle memory and additional features. ;-) Outboard EQs also rule. I never used a consoles channel strip EQ though.
#29
19th December 2012
Old 19th December 2012
  #29
Gear nut
 
M.o.T.s's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: mid west
Posts: 93

M.o.T.s is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris View Post
Euphonix cs series consoles and Harrison series 10 or twelve console.
caronte23
Thread Starter
#30
5th April 2013
Old 5th April 2013
  #30
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Rome, Italy
Posts: 186

Thread Starter
caronte23 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Mmm, the people willing to pay for such tech are minimal. I rarely automate eqs; if I need to I parallel the channel or more usually do it ITB. Same with ssl dynamics. What's the need? If it cost 1k more per channel for automated pots, would you pay it?
Yeah no also I almost never do eq or dynamics automations... the only need would be to recall mixes for quick changes...
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Pronecobra / Music Computers
41
deuc647 / So much gear, so little time!
11
BreakonThru5 / Low End Theory
4
destiny brandon / So much gear, so little time!
2

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.