SSL Waves vs. Duende

[Dirty Halo]

Did I miss something or is the price basically the same, where Duence comes FROM SSL and offers a rack of hardware for processing to boot?

So, where's the give? Gotta be one.

Anyone with experience with the two? Opinions.

Lastly, do you think Duence will do a version of the Lord Alge presets?

Curious.

-a

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Did I miss something or is the price basically the same, where Duence comes FROM SSL and offers a rack of hardware for processing to boot?

So, where's the give? Gotta be one.

Anyone with experience with the two? Opinions.

Lastly, do you think Duence will do a version of the Lord Alge presets?

Curious.

-a

The Duende is ported over from the C200 which is a clone of the 9K EQ's/comps.

The Waves are clones of the 4000 E & G.

Chris mixes on an older 4000E/G so you figure it out.

Maybe they will have the Michael Brauer presets for the Duende since he mixes on a 9K.

Or maybe we will see the Bob Clearmountain presets or Andy Wallace presets.
(Man this whole preset thing is becoming pathetic).

[Lindell]

SSL vs what else? SSL


SSL DUENDE EQ VS. WAVES SSL EQ...


Waves SSl vs SSL Duende VS Focusrite LM


Duende first impressions (looooooong post - no info)

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by Lindell

SSL vs what else? SSL


SSL DUENDE EQ VS. WAVES SSL EQ...


Waves SSl vs SSL Duende VS Focusrite LM


Duende first impressions (looooooong post - no info)

Dude, I DID a search and did not find the specific information on the topic I wanted to discuss, why are you always so condescending and a prick? If you don't like me or my topics, please don't bother, please.



-a

[Lindell]

oh man, you just can't lay it off can you? took me 1 minute to search this web site to get answers to you questions.
I am gonna edit some of your last post since it off topic.

Cheers

[Dirty Halo]

Well, if it took you only a minute to find the information, why didn't you bother to copy and post it?

Again, you seem more content in picking fights and editing than providing or contributing info.

By all means, if I'm wrong, please post the info you seem to have found.

-a

[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

The Duende is ported over from the C200 which is a clone of the 9K EQ's/comps.

The Waves are clones of the 4000 E & G.

Just to get BOT, what is the history of SSL with regards to their consoles, to be more specific, when was the 4000-series introduced and are they still in production (sorry but I am ignorant about consoles and anything else costing more than $10k)? How about the 9000-series? And Thrill, if you are still here, what was/is the C200? And maybe I should just check out their website and not bother you guys with this.......

But I AM interested in the differences between the 4000 and 9000 consoles and their history... info appreciated!!

Thanx!!

J.D.

[Lindell]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Well, if it took you only a minute to find the information, why didn't you bother to copy and post it?

Again, you seem more content in picking fights and editing than providing or contributing info.

By all means, if I'm wrong, please post the info you seem to have found.

-a

see all the links I posted above

[djui5]

Originally Posted by jdjustice

Just to get BOT, what is the history of SSL with regards to their consoles, to be more specific, when was the 4000-series introduced and are they still in production

Not sure when it was introduced, early 80's I think? No, it's not still in production, unless your Bob Rock or someone like that. They also made a 5K series that was aimed at post production. There is a company rack mounting modules from the 5K seried. Then came the 6K series, which is similar to the 4K, but with 3 VCA controlled "master busses" that feed the main stereo buss. They also changed the mic inputs on this board I believe. Not sure if there was ever a 7K series, if there was I've never heard of it. Then they built the 8K series. This was "cleaner" and offered more features than the 6K. I believe Ultimation was introduced with this model, but could be wrong. After that came the 9000J. They changed everything with this board. New mic inputs, new line inputs (without the headroom of the old ones), new metering, new faders (no more P&G), new 48 buss bussing system (8K might have had this, not sure), highly upgraded studio computer and automation system, fader groups in master section, expansive master center with surround option, etc etc. Then came the XL9K, which is the newest console. It's similar to the 9J, but "better" in some aspects.

I believe, somewhere between the 8K and the 9J they made the CS200. This is a digitally controlled analog console that failed miserably for some reason. The meter bridge sure is pretty...


There is a huge difference in sonics between the 4K/6K series and the 9J/XL9K series. The 4/6K have a rock friendly "grit" to them, and can handle a good pounding on the input. The 9J screams like a 2 year old when you hit it's inputs or master buss hard. It does have an amazing sounding sweet spot though, when you find it. The 9J also has a switchable E/G eq section. The E is suppost to "model" their E series (4K) eq's.


There's probably a ton of info on SSL's site. Hope this helps some. I'm sure other will chime in with more exact info.

BTW, Dirty Halo, take it easy on Lindell. It's rough tossing midgets all day.

[jdjustice]

no offence to either Lindell or Dirty Halo, but isn't the point of the "search" function to eliminate multiple threads on the same topic?

so what I am saying here is that this thread has NOTHING to do with pro audio or SSL except for 3 posts; the rest is bickering between two ADULTS, one a moderator.

this bickering is useless and posting threads where you are doing nothing but going back and forth "I-told-you-so" is analagous to posting threads where one has not done a proper search, in other words, it is just as much of a waste of space as Dirty Halo posting a question that might not have been "searched" thoroughly.

this post of mine is esentially useless too.

I just wanted to try and get back on topic. Audio. Engineering. Music.

PEACE


J.D.



EDIT: I posted this before seeing that we were indeed getting back on topic. Now I can rest in peace

[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by djui5

Not sure when it was introduced, early 80's I think? No, it's not still in production, unless your Bob Rock or someone like that. They also made a 5K series that was aimed at post production. There is a company rack mounting modules from the 5K seried. Then came the 6K series, which is similar to the 4K, but with 3 VCA controlled "master busses" that feed the main stereo buss. They also changed the mic inputs on this board I believe. Not sure if there was ever a 7K series, if there was I've never heard of it. Then they built the 8K series. This was "cleaner" and offered more features than the 6K. I believe Ultimation was introduced with this model, but could be wrong. After that came the 9000J. They changed everything with this board. New mic inputs, new line inputs (without the headroom of the old ones), new metering, new faders (no more P&G), new 48 buss bussing system (8K might have had this, not sure), highly upgraded studio computer and automation system, fader groups in master section, expansive master center with surround option, etc etc. Then came the XL9K, which is the newest console. It's similar to the 9J, but "better" in some aspects.

I believe, somewhere between the 8K and the 9J they made the CS200. This is a digitally controlled analog console that failed miserably for some reason. The meter bridge sure is pretty...


There is a huge difference in sonics between the 4K/6K series and the 9J/XL9K series. The 4/6K have a rock friendly "grit" to them, and can handle a good pounding on the input. The 9J screams like a 2 year old when you hit it's inputs or master buss hard. It does have an amazing sounding sweet spot though, when you find it. The 9J also has a switchable E/G eq section. The E is suppost to "model" their E series (4K) eq's.

djui5,

thanks a million for all the great info. I really appreciate it.

Cheers,

J.D.

[adam_w]

Here ya go; here's a difference you may wish to consider -

The Waves plugins will work with your PT rig if you're using firewire for storage on a G5 and don't have room for a firewire card.

Duende will NOT work with your PT rig if you're using firewire for storage on a G5 and don't have room for a firewire card.

[Lindell]

Originally Posted by jdjustice

no offence to either Lindell or Dirty Halo, but isn't the point of the "search" function to eliminate multiple threads on the same topic?

that is correct

[Lindell]

Originally Posted by djui5

I believe, somewhere between the 8K and the 9J they made the CS200. This is a digitally controlled analog console that failed miserably for some reason. The meter bridge sure is pretty...

a little correction: the C200 is all DIGITAL, not an anlog circuit is sight. That's why SSL is refering to the C200. They use "the same" algorhytm's.

/Rock on

[Dirty Halo]

Despite the posting of other threads, which I've checked AND my own search prior to this posting, none of that info directly addressed or answered my question.

I'm keeping this to the topic.

-a

[elambo]

Originally Posted by adam_w

Here ya go; here's a difference you may wish to consider -

The Waves plugins will work with your PT rig if you're using firewire for storage on a G5 and don't have room for a firewire card.

Duende will NOT work with your PT rig if you're using firewire for storage on a G5 and don't have room for a firewire card.

If you're using a firewire drive for storage you should be using a PCI card anyway. The G5/firewire problem is well documented and a PCI card fixes it every time. With the four G5s in which I've installed cards, firewire performance has improved.

And almost as well documented is the Duende vs. Waves topic. There are more than just the four that have been listed. Search is your friend...

[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Did I miss something or is the price basically the same, where Duence comes FROM SSL and offers a rack of hardware for processing to boot?

So, where's the give? Gotta be one.

I think basically the Duende and the SSL bundle from Waves, simply sound different because they are modeled on different consoles. Posters on another thread where the two were compared mentioned liking the Duende better, but I think it's just a matter of personal taste. I have the SSL Waves bundle and I love it. Haven't heard the Duende except for the MP3s/WAVs that were posted in the computer forum.

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Lastly, do you think Duende will do a version of the Lord Alge presets?

They may indeed introduce presets, but probably not from CLA. He probably signed an exclusivity contract with Waves for their presets.



Cheers,

J.D.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Did I miss something or is the price basically the same, where Duence comes FROM SSL and offers a rack of hardware for processing to boot?

So, where's the give? Gotta be one.

Anyone with experience with the two? Opinions.

Lastly, do you think Duence will do a version of the Lord Alge presets?

Curious.

-a

1) Yup, price is basically the same

2) No give. One made by Waves, one made by SSL. One patterned closely after 4000, one patterned closely after 9000. One uses TDM DSP, one has it's own.

3) Quite a bit of experience with both has been posted. Hence the links. Most people who have tried both (here at GS and other forums) prefer the SSL version. People who only own Waves will attempt to dismiss this.

4) No one knows. SSL has only said that there will lilkely be presets.

So all your questions have been answered.

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by adam_w

Duende will NOT work with your PT rig if you're using firewire for storage on a G5 and don't have room for a firewire card.

Then just use a SATA drive for audio instead. thumbsup

[djui5]

Originally Posted by Lindell

a little correction: the C200 is all DIGITAL, not an anlog circuit is sight. That's why SSL is refering to the C200. They use "the same" algorhytm's.

/Rock on

Thanks for clearing that up

Happy midget tossing

[SnakeCained]

Can we get a list together of mixing engineers who we'd like presets from?

Bob Clearmountain

Andy Wallace

Spike Stent

Mixerman etc

To me the SSL looks like better value as it is DSP and dosen't have WUP.

[chadly]

Originally Posted by elambo

3) Quite a bit of experience with both has been posted. Hence the links. Most people who have tried both (here at GS and other forums) prefer the SSL version. People who only own Waves will attempt to dismiss this.

(Cough cough) unless you're a PC user. Then you most likely haven't been able to try Duende.

. . .and might actually appreciate Waves for releasing for both platforms right at the bat.

But I digress. I've dug the demo stuff I've heard from Duende. But I own Waves. And love it. (I can't make a comparison, sorry!)

[sphereman]

Originally Posted by adam_w

Here ya go; here's a difference you may wish to consider -

The Waves plugins will work with your PT rig if you're using firewire for storage on a G5 and don't have room for a firewire card.

Duende will NOT work with your PT rig if you're using firewire for storage on a G5 and don't have room for a firewire card.

What about audio on a firewire 800 and the Duende on the 400 ports? Is there a bandwidth problem here?

[Erik Lutkins]

Originally Posted by sphereman

What about audio on a firewire 800 and the Duende on the 400 ports? Is there a bandwidth problem here?

I'd love to know the answer to this as well. Anyone using Duende with ProTools 6.9.2 and the VST wrapper or will it only work with PTools 7.x?

[Dirty Halo]

Thanks everyone. Seems like there's plenty to discuss here and good info.

Well worth another thread on the topic!

Much appreciated.

Since Duence and Waves do cost about the same and obviosuly with the Duende hardware, there are hard costs of production (more than a box and copied discs), their net must be much less (obviously). If I interprete this all correctly, there are equal fans of both, but it seems like getting more for your money (i.e. actual hardware) is a better value and I'd assume SSL is trying to get us into a system for future updates.

Assuming they aren't just good guys and like making less money, they are trying to get people into the Duende platform, which makes me think there are plans for that platform, does anyone know what that might be?

-a

[adam_w]

Sorry, didn't mean to drag this OT, but for the curious, it seems the 400 & 800 share the same FW bus & our G5 is fully loaded with HD process cards, so a PCI card isn't an option for us :-(

The other thing is track count - we're kinda stuck with FW as they're getting up there, and apart from SCSI ( which would mean an expansion chassis, et al..plus NO_ONE ever brings anything in on scsi i.m.h.o ) there isn't really an option

Duende does sound good, but just can't use it in this particular config.

[djui5]

Can't you plug Duende into a firewire hub with extra inputs?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by djui5

Not sure when it was introduced, early 80's I think?

Try late 70's.

Also the 6K was a console designed for broadcast.

[raal]

Originally Posted by adam_w

Here ya go; here's a difference you may wish to consider -

The Waves plugins will work with your PT rig if you're using firewire for storage on a G5 and don't have room for a firewire card.

Duende will NOT work with your PT rig if you're using firewire for storage on a G5 and don't have room for a firewire card.

bummer. deal breaker for those that have HD3s. hope SSL decides to make TDM or RTAS versions too, or fixes the thing!

[thebri]

From a Duende User to help keep this thread going in the right direction...

Yeah, the 4000 was made by Waves, but with help from SSL. They are very proud of it. The lead designer at SSL was very involved int he project from the inception. They feel it has such a different sound that it shouldn't be compared. Well, duh they are.

The C200 console is not a complete flop as suggested. Maybe they haven't sold as many as they would have liked (who knows), but there are many out there. Personally I hate digital consoles, but this one I like, especially for broadcasts in surround and stereo at the same time. Fox Sports bought several last year for their NFL games and the sound was 100% better, not to mention the surround was better and the number of mistakes made during broadcasts was Waaaaaay down. They used three separate boards for the Super bowl the previous year, and the Capricorn (or was it an Oxford) crashed constantly. They could do it all from a C200. It is a sweet board.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/image.../nu/icon30.gif
For Duende, the FW is an issue even with a card. It feels a bit beta to me yet. I have three FW/USB cards in my Mac to get all the FW crap going. I suspect that this is the problem, as does SSL. Their Tech support has been very nice, and it seems like driver refresh is close.

However, I am working on a 70 channel Mix in LE (DV toolkit 2 with tons o Stereo tracks) and the Duende sounds fantastic. Fortunaltly these cats want to sound like Steely Dan (let's not get OT on this one puuuleaze) and the Duende gets clean and clear no problem. There is no way I could have attempted this mix without the Duende or some other Non-host processor. If only they had the budget to do the whole thing at a studio with TDM, things would be different. I will most likely take my Duende to a TDM studio for the final mix in TDM, which should be interesting as well.