REDD.47 or Telefunken V72 ???
mad_octopus
Thread Starter
#1
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
  #1
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
REDD.47 or Telefunken V72 ???

Shawadeewadee
#2
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
  #2
Gear addict
 

buy new mics, seriously.

Other than that, v72 and m72 are both great pres and very simmilar.
#3
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
  #3
Pragmatic Snob
 
u b k's Avatar
 

having just spent an insane amount of effort recreating a song off abbey road (search for the thread, it came out great) i'lll testify that if you're after a specific sound, you have to create it first, then capture it. capturing it involves techniques and equipment, and the equipment is (imo) secondary to what it's capturing.

in particular, people felt my drums were extremely authentic, and i can tell you that is true because i spent hours tuning and damping the drums to sound like ringo's kit, then i spent as much time learning to hit the drums the way he hit them. then i stuck a couple of mics into a great river and captured the sound. it could have been any preamp, because what was being recorded sounded like ringo.

most guys seem uninterested in exploring the truth of that reality, and look to gear to create rather then capture. this will only get you so far (i.e., not very), and there's usually a good deal of disappointment along the way.

my experience with the beatles sound is that aside from the obvious --- it came from the interaction of the beatles and the room --- a tremendous amount of it came from their particular use of tape (heavy bouncing and submixing) and the character of the compressors. after that came the neumanns, then the preamps.

i expect you'll be buying a 72 regardless. it's a great preamp, and was used on a tremendous number of records in that era... most of which sound nothing like the beatles.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
#4
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
  #4
Lives for gear
 
vernier's Avatar
When comparing, don't forget to include the (very) focused and punchy "Revolver".
mad_octopus
Thread Starter
#5
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
  #5
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
Shawadeewadee
#6
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
  #6
Lives for gear
 
xj32's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_octopus
The V72s were used up until Pepper and the Redd47 pres were used for the White Album & Let It Be...

I am thinking about the 72's because they're cheaper and you guys claim Pepper sounds a bit more 3D than White Album.

You may want to check with some of the "Recording The Beatles" guys on the acuarcy of that statement.

It was my understanding that the pre's you are talking about are one and the same...

The Redd47 desks contained EMI modified V72's. In essence there were no branded Redd47 pres as such...but I could be wrong too.

The Beatles used Redd consols straight up until Abbey Road when they went with the TG series stuff.

Xj
#7
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_octopus
I also am gonna buy maybe an Apogee 200 and a Studer 2 track and bounce all my layers individually into it and back into Nuendo so I get my analogue sound without having to steal a nice car and get editing capabilities in which I set myself certain limits (just like when the limitation of 4 track helped one to create!!)
Yeah, you could mix drums, bass and rhythm guitar to two tracks, record to tape, dump that to Nuendo, record vocals and other instruments next, mix to two tracks, dump to tape, etc., then mix the whole thing in Nuendo and record the master to tape. Like Ubik said, you'd get the buildup of mutiple track bouncing and compressing.
#8
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Mike Tholen's Avatar
 

How about these for tape machines...



I have them hooked up to this desk too....

Last edited by Mike Tholen; 27th July 2006 at 09:09 AM.. Reason: Edited by Mike Tholen to post viewable pictures, not clickable files to view.
#9
26th July 2006
Old 26th July 2006
  #9
Gear addict
 
BrianK's Avatar
 

I'll save discussion of those two (and more) mic pre's on various Beatles records for the book.
http://www.recordingthebeatles.com

It's not a simple answer in some cases. Until you know the different desks well, and then study the location of various recording/mix sessions, these simple answers don't cover it.

But I have the Revolution REDD.47 and love it a lot. I had an old V72 (modified to V72s specs for years before). The V72 version is warmer and smoother, more pillowy. The REDD.47 design is slightly more aggressive, and DEFINITELY has they type of edgy sizzle you hear on a lot of Beatles records. Still, a very high fidelity amplifier.

Just for fun, I made a track of guitar direct into the REDD.47 preamp overloaded. It was almost exactly that "Revolution" single fuzz sound. I've never found another pre that got as close.

(Don't forget that - in those days - a mic pre was also used as the line amp and makeup gain after processing. So it would not just be used once, but sometimes many times in the creation of one track's sound. Old desks did this a lot - Universal Audio, Spectra Sonics, etc.; one amp for the whole desk)
#10
26th July 2006
Old 26th July 2006
  #10
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianK

But I have the Revolution REDD.47 and love it a lot. I had an old V72 (modified to V72s specs for years before). The V72 version is warmer and smoother, more pillowy. The REDD.47 design is slightly more aggressive, and DEFINITELY has they type of edgy sizzle you hear on a lot of Beatles records. Still, a very high fidelity amplifier.

Love the Revolution pre..not cheap,but very nice,, even compared to V76m'sthumbsup
#11
28th July 2006
Old 28th July 2006
  #11
Gear addict
 
Fruition2k's Avatar
 

Still using and love my REDD47, its the early version and amazing on everthing
especially on vocals....sweet.
#12
29th December 2006
Old 29th December 2006
  #12
Gear interested
 

I paid $3000 for a redd47 and never got it

I got ripped off by John and i have not heard back from him since June.
C/G
#13
29th December 2006
Old 29th December 2006
  #13
C/G
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C/G's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by phonuz View Post
I got ripped off by John and i have not heard back from him since June.

I would be pretty upset if it were myself in your situation. I assume you have been calling him twice a day and waiting on his doorstep everyday since July?
#14
1st January 2007
Old 1st January 2007
  #14
Gear addict
 
Fruition2k's Avatar
 

Well as for the REDD 47, its been my primary mic pre for nearly 7 years...John's first
prototype actually....he claims it was number 12 of 12 of the first batch he constructed from the only complete original prints of the REDD 51. Never having seen one except for old photos of Abbey Road, he recreated it from those prints.
Truly an amazing design, wonderfully rich tone and a wonderful silkly top end, nothing else I've ever used has brought out the best of my mics...
#15
15th February 2007
Old 15th February 2007
  #15
Gear interested
 

It seems that John Hinson has taken money from quite a few people and done exactly the same thing. I have a count of at least 4 definites. Anyone want to try and track him down and get a resolution to this? I figure that there is at least 20k woth of undelivered gear (minimum) and I bet there is more. That is quite a fighting fund if people pooled their resources and tried to get either the gear they ordered or their money back...
#16
15th February 2007
Old 15th February 2007
  #16
Lives for gear
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
I thought John and Dave Marquette (from Mercury) were friends...you may want to consider the Mercury M72 or M76 which are dead on to the real thing (and the customer service is great, and they ship right away). Just my $.02.
#17
15th February 2007
Old 15th February 2007
  #17
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianK View Post
I'll save discussion of those two (and more) mic pre's on various Beatles records for the book.
http://www.recordingthebeatles.com

It's not a simple answer in some cases. Until you know the different desks well, and then study the location of various recording/mix sessions, these simple answers don't cover it.

But I have the Revolution REDD.47 and love it a lot. I had an old V72 (modified to V72s specs for years before). The V72 version is warmer and smoother, more pillowy. The REDD.47 design is slightly more aggressive, and DEFINITELY has they type of edgy sizzle you hear on a lot of Beatles records. Still, a very high fidelity amplifier.

Just for fun, I made a track of guitar direct into the REDD.47 preamp overloaded. It was almost exactly that "Revolution" single fuzz sound. I've never found another pre that got as close.

(Don't forget that - in those days - a mic pre was also used as the line amp and makeup gain after processing. So it would not just be used once, but sometimes many times in the creation of one track's sound. Old desks did this a lot - Universal Audio, Spectra Sonics, etc.; one amp for the whole desk)
Another thing Brian's book will reveal is that there were SO MANY places in the whole chain where the sound was being altered in some way, I was amazed. Way more than just a console or a given microphone.

The Beatles sound can never be attributed to any one or two pieces of gear....tube or solid state, etc.

TH
#18
16th February 2007
Old 16th February 2007
  #18
Gear addict
 
Fruition2k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Another thing Brian's book will reveal is that there were SO MANY places in the whole chain where the sound was being altered in some way, I was amazed. Way more than just a console or a given microphone.

The Beatles sound can never be attributed to any one or two pieces of gear....tube or solid state, etc.

TH
Thats very true, even when you watch old performances there is that "sound" with no REDD anywhere near. I can say after talking to John Hinson, there were amazing developments going on with respect to the REDD team and EMI at Abbey Road. I'm glad there are people today like John Hinson and Oliver Achut going the extra mile to recreate the gear though...
I sometimes hear hints of the past using the REDD and a few Neumanns, maybe it subtle but its enough to make me smile...
since you're about 15 min from me I would be glad to bring the REDD up there along with a few mics and get your honest opinion.
You can PM me if you'd like as there is nothing better than another set of good
ears in this case.

thumbsup
#19
6th September 2007
Old 6th September 2007
  #19
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianK View Post
I'll save discussion of those two (and more) mic pre's on various Beatles records for the book.
Recording The Beatles

It's not a simple answer in some cases. Until you know the different desks well, and then study the location of various recording/mix sessions, these simple answers don't cover it.

But I have the Revolution REDD.47 and love it a lot. I had an old V72 (modified to V72s specs for years before). The V72 version is warmer and smoother, more pillowy. The REDD.47 design is slightly more aggressive, and DEFINITELY has they type of edgy sizzle you hear on a lot of Beatles records. Still, a very high fidelity amplifier.

Just for fun, I made a track of guitar direct into the REDD.47 preamp overloaded. It was almost exactly that "Revolution" single fuzz sound. I've never found another pre that got as close.

(Don't forget that - in those days - a mic pre was also used as the line amp and makeup gain after processing. So it would not just be used once, but sometimes many times in the creation of one track's sound. Old desks did this a lot - Universal Audio, Spectra Sonics, etc.; one amp for the whole desk)
Hello there!

Brian; sorry for being off topic. Can you tell me which input and output transformer model your REDD47 uses? The input should be Cinemag, output probably the same.
I need to know this because i'm making a copy of this preamp and would like to know what kind of transformers John was using.

Miha
84K
#20
6th September 2007
Old 6th September 2007
  #20
84K
Lives for gear
 
84K's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by phonuz View Post
I got ripped off by John and i have not heard back from him since June.

John owes me $14,000 and when I see him.... I will make sure he pays me back. I am planning a trip out to surprise him. I do not want to discuss any further. He is a crook.
#21
19th February 2009
Old 19th February 2009
  #21
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84K View Post
John owes me $14,000 and when I see him.... I will make sure he pays me back. I am planning a trip out to surprise him. I do not want to discuss any further. He is a crook.
I've done business with him in the last 6 months and all was well. He was actually very, very nice. He had something very tragic happen to him in I believe 2006 that caused him to lose contact with people and not be able to work for a long time. I won't go any further into detail.

Also, I spoke directly with Geoff Emerick about this very question. His word was that the REDD preamps were much better than the V72's. His take was that they were bigger and punchier sounding - more 3D. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

T
#22
19th February 2009
Old 19th February 2009
  #22
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tillmann View Post
I've done business with him in the last 6 months and all was well. He was actually very, very nice. He had something very tragic happen to him in I believe 2006 that caused him to lose contact with people and not be able to work for a long time. I won't go any further into detail.

Also, I spoke directly with Geoff Emerick about this very question. His word was that the REDD preamps were much better than the V72's. His take was that they were bigger and punchier sounding - more 3D. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

T
John made me some stuff for me too just recently.[RS124's]
he's back on his feet again and Ive had no problems.pleasure to deal with.
super nice guy and the gear is amazing..
the wiring/components are a true thing of beauty
funny you mention Emerick.just recently talked to him too
#23
19th February 2009
Old 19th February 2009
  #23
Lives for gear
 
voiceactor's Avatar
The Revolution website says it is not currently taking orders for the REDD 47mkII
Just thought I would pass that along.
#24
19th February 2009
Old 19th February 2009
  #24
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by voiceactor View Post
The Revolution website says it is not currently taking orders for the REDD 47mkII
Just thought I would pass that along.
He does them in limited runs.at the moment he's working on some other cool stuff
#25
20th February 2009
Old 20th February 2009
  #25
Gear addict
 
pendejo's Avatar
John Hinson is a thief, nothing less. He owes me $2500 for a long time now, for gear I paid for that he never delivered. He stopped responding to phone calls, messages etc.

There's a thread here somewhere with people worrying about someone ripping of his designs for the REDD47. Don't know whether to laugh or cry - with JH being the biggest scam artist of them all. fuuck
#26
20th February 2009
Old 20th February 2009
  #26
Lives for gear
 
Bigbang's Avatar
 

I like the sound of the Neumann/Geiling or EAB preamps much more then the sound of the V72. But that must be because they are simular to the Redd preamp. The Neumann/Geiling preamps use Telefunken EF806S tubes like the original Redd 47.
#27
21st February 2009
Old 21st February 2009
  #27
Lives for gear
 
hobson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_octopus View Post
The V72s were used up until Pepper and the Redd47 pres were used for the White Album & Let It Be...
Quote:
Originally Posted by xj32 View Post
You may want to check with some of the "Recording The Beatles" guys on the acuarcy of that statement.

It was my understanding that the pre's you are talking about are one and the same...

The Redd47 desks contained EMI modified V72's. In essence there were no branded Redd47 pres as such...but I could be wrong too.

The Beatles used Redd consols straight up until Abbey Road when they went with the TG series stuff.

REDD.47 is indeed a mic preamp and not a desk brand.

i know this is an old thread - but for clarity - i was just reading up on this in the RTB book - the above statements are close -

up until recording of 'Hard Days Night' album - REDD.37 desk used V72s amplifiers (modded by EMI to run at 200ohm) - after that Studio 2 got a new desk REDD.51 with new REDD.47 mic pre's - while they sounded very close to 72s - many felt they were "inferior" - not as "smooth sounding" - more "aggressive/punchier" - another underestimation in the REDD.47 design was that they put off an ungodly amount of heat - which meant having to regulary changing valves!!

REDD.51 desk lasted until Abbey Road album - when TG console (non-tube) was installed.

DSTM by Floyd for that matter is a TG affair - no tube pres AFAIK.
#28
21st February 2009
Old 21st February 2009
  #28
Gear nut
 
TheMIXIMAL's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_octopus View Post
I am searching for that 60s Abbey Road Beatles/Floyd sound and seriously considering buying a stereo version of Mercury M72s. The V72s were used up until Pepper and the Redd47 pres were used for the White Album & Let It Be...
From memory:
Some of The White Album was recorded at Trident Studios on a Trident. Some of Let It Be was recorded at Olympic on the Helios.
#29
21st February 2009
Old 21st February 2009
  #29
Gear maniac
 
bewareofdogs's Avatar
 

V72b.
Lovely sounding, warm and still great detail.
thumbsup
#30
2nd August 2009
Old 2nd August 2009
  #30
Banned
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMIXIMAL View Post
From memory:
Some of The White Album was recorded at Trident Studios on a Trident. Some of Let It Be was recorded at Olympic on the Helios.
NO. Yet MORE bad information from a wanna be information guru on the internet.

The desk in usuage at Trident during those sessions was a Sound Techniques.
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