ADR Compex

[j2dafo]

Originally Posted by Screws

Lest anyone think the Compex is a drums only tool, I've been recently amazed and pleased at how running the mix thru it always brings the vocals forward, in addition to the punch and crack of the drums.

AMEN! I love the Auto release for strings in a rock setting. Also love squashing vocals tracked with sm57's 3:1 with release setting at its fatest, mid range warmth for years!

Ps. I'm using the Scamp rack version.

[hywyn]

Originally Posted by Arny

Dear Steve,
Write me your request so it enters our database and I'll check our stock, must warn you though things are very hectic with our own F760 being launced, but you can be sure we will come up with an answer

Best Regards

Tony.
Tony Arnold (Director)
Helios Electronics Ltd
Home

Hi Arny,

I don't have the ADR in front of me now, but basically all pots need replacing. Switches seem ok. I have both the F760 X-RS and F760N

If you can source these I'd really appreciate it!

Incidentally, I spoke to ADR a while ago about recapping and the gent advised against doing that. He suggested it would alter the sound in such a way that would take it away from the original. Given the success of the original I can understand his conclusions, but isn't there a point where they really do need replacing?

Many thanks,
Steve

[Arny]

Originally Posted by hywyn

Hi Arny,

I don't have the ADR in front of me now, but basically all pots need replacing. Switches seem ok. I have both the F760 X-RS and F760N

If you can source these I'd really appreciate it!

Incidentally, I spoke to ADR a while ago about recapping and the gent advised against doing that. He suggested it would alter the sound in such a way that would take it away from the original. Given the success of the original I can understand his conclusions, but isn't there a point where they really do need replacing?

Many thanks,
Steve

Dear Steve,
It was most likely Ian Harley to whom you spoke with, and I aggree with him, there is a lot to write about why you should not change
the Caps unless they have failed, then you must be sure to use Ohms Law to make sure you arrive at the same values as what the originals were.
You try and find some of the odd value caps that we used many years ago.
Electrolytic capacitors:
Try to find 4-mf or 8mf or even 12mf etc. and the same goes for normal caps.
We have some of our caps specialy made for our products as they are no longer available from the shelf, same goes for pots.

Changing caps with the original value will maintain the original sound, but don.t use any component that is near, it just won't work,
besides, this changing all the caps for me is what we English call in most cases
"A Load of ole Baldidash"

It is better to find a decent engineer who knows by carrying out certain tests, which ones require changing.

Regards the pots write me at arny@helios-electronics.com
so it goes on file otherwise it might get forgotten

Best Regards

Tony
Tony Arnold (irector)
Helios Electronics Ltd
Home

[hywyn]

Originally Posted by Arny

It is better to find a decent engineer who knows by carrying out certain tests, which ones require changing.

]

Absolutely! It also takes an engineer to expose balderdash for what it is ; -)

I'll be in touch, - thanks Arny.

Steve

[hywyn]

Originally Posted by Arny

Dear Steve,
Write me your request so it enters our database and I'll check our stock, must warn you though things are very hectic with our own F760 being launced, but you can be sure we will come up with an answer

Best Regards

Tony.
Tony Arnold (Director)
Helios Electronics Ltd
Home

Arny. I got no response from that email address last week,

I can get hold of 20mm diameter 47K log for the Expander threshold (I could maybe use these also for channel input & output in place of 10K log

also, - 20mm dia 4M7 log - Expander Release.

I don't have the ratios, Compressor, threshold & release (are these: Elma 1x11 switches and Elma 2x6?), no do I have master input/output pots, which are very noisy!

can you help with these,...please?
Thanks,
Steve

[Arny]

Originally Posted by hywyn

Arny. I got no response from that email address last week,
I can get hold of 20mm diameter 47K log for the Expander threshold (I could maybe use these also for channel input & output in place of 10K log
also, - 20mm dia 4M7 log - Expander Release.

I don't have the ratios, Compressor, threshold & release (are these: Elma 1x11 switches and Elma 2x6?), no do I have master input/output pots, which are very noisy!

can you help with these,...please?
Thanks,
Steve

Dear Steve,
With all respect, did you not fully understand my first post, when I offered to help, the comment I made is also part of your quote yesterday..
I wrote:
Write me your request so it enters our database and I'll check our stock, must warn you though things are very hectic with our own F760 being launced, but you can be sure we will come up with an answer.

Originally Posted by Arny

Dear Steve,
Write me your request so it enters our database and I'll check our stock, must warn you though things are very hectic with our own F760 being launced, but you can be sure we will come up with an answer

I was not expecting to be able to look into your problem for at least a week, as it is, I found a little time, but still don't have all the facts from my suppliers.
You wrote explaining your problem on the 4th = Friday night at 19:56,
(I can show your email on this thread should there be any doubts).
I am not sure whether you are aware that most company's are closed down that time of the night on a Friday and will not open until Monday = Today.

When you wrote this Post yesterday = Sunday, I was also busy, as I too was working on the Sabbath, one of the jobs I had, was to look into your problem.
I sent you an email on the Sunday Evening at 19.19 = I am so busy, but continued to work on your problem even though it was 7:15 on a Sunday night

Below my Salutation, is a Scan of my email so that you can see clearly, I am not making silly excuses.

It was obvious in my reply that I was not going to suggest that you use a 47K in place of a 10K, and I was surprised that you even suggested it.

If you feel you can find a 47K Duel, or Tandem or sometimes what is known as a Stereo potentiometer, as well as singles in the folowing values, 10K, 47K and 4m7 all LOG, and all from a single source, of which, all of these items should be of very high quality components, faster than I, then please inform me on this thread, so we will all know where to obtain them.
"High Quality" yes, because you will not want to be doing this job again sooner than you think, so Carbon is out of the Question.

When I have found exactly the right parts to replace what is known as a continuous problem, I will be offering complete upgrade kits for sale.
Watch this space but I need time, as everyone will not wish to pay higher prices than is necessary.

We have the Elma Rotary Switches and all other parts including replacement PCB's ex-Stock. (We only replace a PCB in exchange for the old one.)

We are also prepared to receive any of the Three PCB's ("A",.."B",.."C"), for repairs, they will also be calibrated, but depending on the owners Rack, they could be very slightly out, but in most cases, closer than they were when they arrived on my Bench.
This way cuts down the heavy shipping costs when sending the whole Rack.

If you wish for me to continue to come up with an answer to your problem Steve, please let me know by posting your reply on this thread.

Best Regards

Tony
Tony Arnold (Director)
Helios Electronics Ltd
Home

email I sent Sunday evening

[okailla]

Hello Arny,

don`t want to bug you, I know you are busy
but you didn`t get back to me since my last email several weeks ago
regarding the F760X-N and Panscan module connectors and schematics.

oka7illa at aol.com

Thanks.

Oliver

[hywyn]

Originally Posted by Arny

[SIZE=3]Dear Steve,
With all respect, did you not fully understand my first post, when I offered to help, .....


[/B][/U]

Hi Tony,

My apologies first for my impatience and appearing to doubt you're resolve to deal with my problem, although I assure you I was only jumping the gun.

You were clear in your last ppst how busy you are right now and your attention to this is therefore all the more appreciated. My suggestion of using the wrong resistance pot can be discarded if you have a better solution.

I look forward to any updates in due course,

All best,

Steve
Steve

[Arny]

Originally Posted by okailla

Hello Arny,

don`t want to bug you, I know you are busy

Originally Posted by okailla

but you didn`t get back to me since my last email several weeks ago
regarding the F760X-N and Panscan module connectors and schematics.

oka7illa at aol.com

Thanks.

Oliver

Dear Oliver & others who may be interested.
I run four websites:

(www.helios-electronics.com)
(www.ampex-uk.com)
(www.arnys-shack.com)
(www.cafe-au-go-go.com)

I use Thunderbird to collect my mail from these four sites, using the IMAP system, an average of 40 mails arrive each day out of the 40 about 7-10 will be spam.
Why I use a "spam delete to trash" piece of software, I'll never know because, I always check the "Trash" folder each week before emptying my "Trash" box, but it has been know over a long period of time for the odd letter to escape my notice, I would also like to point out that this takes up about 1 - 2 hours of my time each day which financially earns me about £2 per hour, as most correspondence is requesting me to help someone who has a problem with their gear.
Due to my wife requesting more of my time, we have agreed that certain item that I send out should be chargeable, making these changes has boosted my hourly rate to a whopping £5 per hour.

In your case Oliver, we did correspond on three occasions about the same subject matter in fact, and in my last email I requested further information. regarding which module you were asking about in your Scamp Rack, I'm still waiting your reply.

I am not stating that you never replied maybe you did, but it has not come to my attention to date, my main reason for replying to your post is written in the next paragraph below.

I might point out, your Post does give the impression to other members that I ignored your emails, but I am sure this was not intentional on your part.

Below are my three replies beneath my Salutation.

Best Regards

Tony.
Tony Arnold (Director)
Helios Electronics Ltd
www.helios-electronics.com

1st reply





2nd reply


3rd Reply

[Arny]

After the last two emails which I feel could only be contributing a negative vibe to this what should be a positive thread.

For the future should anyone else feel they have not received a reply to any email they may have sent me,.

Please write me at arny@helios-electronics.com

I'm sure other members find these last couple of posts completly Off-Topic,

I guess we could start another thread called.
"Companies that do not reply to my emails."

The chances are, within a short time, it will hold the record as being the longest thread in existance.

Hoping we have maintained our sense of humour

Best Regards

Tony
Tony Arnold (Director)
Helios Electronics Ltd
Home

[Ike Zimbel]

Electrolytic capacitors:
Try to find 4-mf or 8mf or even 12mf etc. and the same goes for normal caps.
We have some of our caps specialy made for our products as they are no longer available from the shelf, same goes for pots.

Changing caps with the original value will maintain the original sound, but don.t use any component that is near, it just won't work,
besides, this changing all the caps for me is what we English call in most cases
"A Load of ole Baldidash"

It is better to find a decent engineer who knows by carrying out certain tests, which ones require changing.

Regards the pots write me at arny@helios-electronics.com
so it goes on file otherwise it might get forgotten

Best Regards

Tony
Tony Arnold (irector)
Helios Electronics Ltd
Home[/QUOTE]

If I could chime in on the capacitor front: I just had F760X-RS #1350 in the shop for some servicing. The majority of the electrolytics (blue, Phillips axials, all original) tested just fine for ESR, and most were over their marked value by at least 20% (15uf's measured 18uf for example). I didn't see any really weird values in there...maybe those are in the Helios version? Anyway, only had to replace 1 x 15uf/40v e-cap, 1 x 500pf ceramic that was disintegrating, and then there's this: One channel had a marked roll-off at 5Khz. After some card swapping, some calibration checking and a lot of snooping around, I finally found that the "A" board on that channel had a 1000pf polystyrene cap fitted in place of the 100pf cap that was fitted on the other channel (and called out on the board). Replacing that cap restored the channel to full bandwidth. Amazing what can go unnoticed for 30 years! After calibration, the unit works and sounds great...I'm going to miss it when the client picks it up this afternoon.
Cheers,
Ike

[dualflip]

ADR Compex = My favorite compressor

[Arny]

Originally Posted by Arny

Electrolytic capacitors:
Try to find 4-mf or 8mf or even 12mf etc. and the same goes for normal caps.
We have some of our caps specialy made for our products as they are no longer available from the shelf, same goes for pots.

Changing caps with the original value will maintain the original sound, but don.t use any component that is near, it just won't work,
besides, this changing all the caps for me is what we English call in most cases
"A Load of ole Baldidash"

It is better to find a decent engineer who knows by carrying out certain tests, which ones require changing.

Regards the pots write me at arny@helios-electronics.com
so it goes on file otherwise it might get forgotten

Best Regards

Tony
Tony Arnold (irector)
Helios Electronics Ltd
Home

[B]

Originally Posted by Ike Zimbel;
I didn't see any really weird values in there...

Anyway, only had to replace 1 x 15uf/40v e-cap, [/B

1 x 500pf ceramic that was disintegrating,
and then there's this:

One channel had a marked roll-off at 5Khz. After some card swapping, some calibration checking and a lot of snooping around, I finally found that the "A" board on that channel had a 1000pf polystyrene cap fitted in place of the 100pf cap that was fitted on the other channel (and called out on the board). Replacing that cap restored the channel to full bandwidth. Amazing what can go unnoticed for 30 years! this afternoon.
Cheers,
Ike

Dear Ike,
First of all, my findings regards to re-capping, I did refer to Ian Harley MD at ADR, but I did not refer to the Compex, or any particular piece of gear, I was talking about all old gear generally,
The early Type-69 is a typical example of these weird value caps, although I do not see them as weird now being in my 75th year.
Ian Harley of ADR is the person who quoted that changing ALL the caps would change the sound, he most likely has not seen a Compex in many years and has most likely assumed it houses these close tolerance caps, when he replied to Steve's (Hywin) question.

Regards to the 100pf in place of the 1,000 pf, there's not a 100pf on the "A" PCB, but there is a 100pf on the "B" PCB.
I very much doubt that it left the ADR factory that way, I have owned and still own, as well as used all of their early Gear and have never experienced a drastic mistake on their part as bad as that.

You may as well be stating, that this Compex has been owned either by its present owner or has been by many an engineer/producers EARS, yet not one of these observed this 5kHz roll-off after maybe 30 years of use when it finally arrived on your bench

Did you also change the Cap that was 20% out of value ?

Best Regards

Tony
Tony Arnold (Director)
Helios Electronics Ltd
www.helios-electronics.com

[sleepyhollos]

How comes I never see anyone talking about the Compex II? You know the one which is a single channel, single rack unit?

[tekis]

Originally Posted by sleepyhollos

How comes I never see anyone talking about the Compex II? You know the one which is a single channel, single rack unit?

There simply weren't that many made. A friend of mine has a pair. He loves 'em!

[Ike Zimbel]

Originally Posted by Arny

Dear Ike,
First of all, my findings regards to re-capping, I did refer to Ian Harley MD at ADR, but I did not refer to the Compex, or any particular piece of gear, I was talking about all old gear generally,
The early Type-69 is a typical example of these weird value caps, although I do not see them as weird now being in my 75th year.
Ian Harley of ADR is the person who quoted that changing ALL the caps would change the sound, he most likely has not seen a Compex in many years and has most likely assumed it houses these close tolerance caps, when he replied to Steve's (Hywin) question.

Regards to the 100pf in place of the 1,000 pf, there's not a 100pf on the "A" PCB, but there is a 100pf on the "B" PCB.
I very much doubt that it left the ADR factory that way, I have owned and still own, as well as used all of their early Gear and have never experienced a drastic mistake on their part as bad as that.

You may as well be stating, that this Compex has been owned either by its present owner or has been by many an engineer/producers EARS, yet not one of these observed this 5kHz roll-off after maybe 30 years of use when it finally arrived on your bench

Did you also change the Cap that was 20% out of value ?

Best Regards

Tony
Tony Arnold (Director)
Helios Electronics Ltd
www.helios-electronics.com

Hi Tony,
No, I left the ones that were over value in place (partially influenced by this thread!) In any case, wasn't the spec for those parts something like -20/+80%?
As for finding that 1000pf cap: I didn't see any signs of rework, and physically, it looked to be the same age, brand, etc. as the 100pf one. Did no one notice for 30+ years? Well, I saw someone post that these were popular as v/o comps for radio stations. I doubt this would have been noticed in that application.
I see that you have 25 years on me, and I've certainly found all kinds of these things over the years. Besides generic cold (dry) solder joints, I've found tons of "no-solder joints", typically where a part is soldered at only one end. More specifically, I had an 1176 in the shop early this year that had a no-solder joint on the wire that goes between the attack and release pots. That unit HAD come from a radio station, and it looked like it had spent some time as a hangar queen / parts donor for other units, probably because it never worked reliably. Recently had a PWA card from an Ampex 1200 in with a ceramic cap that had been put in 90 degrees from the correct position, with both leads going through a pad with two holes, so it was shorted and therefore doing nothing, since new.
I also had a popular tube / SS mic-pre / comp with the variable HP pot wired backwards. The list goes on. As a colleague once said "you find things..."
Cheers,
Ike

[Arny]

Originally Posted by Ike Zimbel

Hi Tony,
No, I left the ones that were over value in place (partially influenced by this thread!) In any case, wasn't the spec for those parts something like -20/+80%?

As for finding that 1000pf cap: I didn't see any signs of rework, and physically, it looked to be the same age, brand, etc. as the 100pf one.

Did no one notice for 30+ years? Well, I saw someone post that these were popular as v/o comps for radio stations. I doubt this would have been noticed in that application.

Recently had a PWA card from an Ampex 1200 in with a ceramic cap that had been put in 90 degrees from the correct position, with both leads going through a pad with two holes, so it was shorted and therefore doing nothing, since new.

As a colleague once said "you find things..."
Cheers,
Ike

Dear Ike,
My whole point for addressing your Post was, it gave me the impression that you wished to make it clear ADR had installed the wrong component, but never realised that you were insulting its past owners ears over the last 30 years.
Your latest Post shows that you wish to change from the "Music Recording Engineer to the "Broadcast Engineer's ears."

I worked for the BBC for many years and I can assure you that all of my comrade Engineers would spot a fall-off at 5kHz, even when broadcasting on A.M, Radio stations only had an Audio Bandwidth up to and just beyond 8kHz, in the 50's later when FM was launched the Audio Bandwidth went up and beyond 11kHz and I include Canada & the USA which is where no doubt this Compex has spent its life.

In your new Post you continue to mention other companies that have failed to check their Products with proper examination or Extensive Testing, before leaving their works.

I have also experienced this mistake on the manuafctures part, while clearing another fault raised by the equipment owner which was always elsewhere in the said piece of equipment, the Hereditary fault was only discovered while searching and taking certain readings to clear the owners problem, only to find the mistake on the manuafctures part, was not at al relitive to the fault the owner had originally complained about.

I don't wish to get into a squabbling match with your good self, my first Post was to protect the reputation of the Music Recording Engineer who may have owned the Compex previously.
Your reply forces me to establish to other GS members that there in nothing wrong with any Broadcast Engineers ears, and that the Audio Bandwitdth before the Compex was ever designed exceeded 11kHz, the latter comment is only assuming that this "ADR Compex" in Question has been owned by a Broadcast Company, which I doubt.
It is a known fact that Music Recording Studios were the main purchasers of the "Compex", it was the Express Limiter coupled with a Transdynamic that did become very popular with the Broadcast Industry.

I am the Appointed Parts & Service for Europe having serviced and sold more MM1200's than I can remember, as well as the ATR Range including the ATR124.
www.ampex-uk.com
Which PWA was it that had the ceramic cap misplaced on this MM1200. that you repaired ?.
Unless this particular PWA was supplied as a compete assembly to be used to replace another old assembly, this MAY have happened, but, if you are saying that this fault had been with the machine since its birth, then I would have to say, that I doubt it has ever caused a serious noticeable problem, so therefore has gone unnoticed during its many years of service.
If you are saying that you were called to repair this Ampex MM1200 due to a problem and this problem was due to this misplaced component, and that the misplaced cap had been there since the birth of this MM1200.
Then I have to add
All machines were thoroughly calibrated when leaving the Ampex Factory and a repeat calibration is carried when delivered, plus this machine I am sure, will have been calibrated many times before it came into your hands.

I have to add that when we manufacture and the same goes for ADR that any components that are out by 20% we never used them, as all components including the FET's were, and still are, hand tested before installation.

Best Regards

Tony
Tony Arnold (Director)
Helios Electronics Ltd
Home

[sleepyhollos]

Originally Posted by tekis

There simply weren't that many made. A friend of mine has a pair. He loves 'em!

Yeah I have a pair too and they are great sounding units. Can get them really cheap when they do come up as they don't seem to be very well known. I'd like to hear them next to the more popular Compexs. Just for comparison. I'm completely satisfied with my Compex IIs