Neve 8816 summing box

[Revelation]

Sound on Sound magazine just did an amazing review on this summing box in their August edition. . Hugh Robjohns who I know personally (former BBC engineer) who I trust more than anyone else gave this unit a big thumbs up.

He says it sounds fabulous and sublime. Its huge headroom and the classic transformer mixing topology with a sikly quality that just screams analogue at the listener.

WOW

[cajonezzz]

Originally Posted by Revelation

Sound on Sound magazine just did an amazing review on this summing box in their August edition. . Hugh Robjohns who I know personally (former BBC engineer) who I trust more than anyone else gave this unit a big thumbs up.

He says it sounds fabulous and sublime. Its huge headroom and the classic transformer mixing topology with a sikly quality that just screams analogue at the listener.

WOW

do a search here, as I think someone else posted quite an opposite opinion on the NEVE summing box. I've yet to have any real experience with any of them, but would really like to know once and for all.

I know a local producer that went for the SPL mix dream, kept it two weeks and then returned it, the general consensus of his engineers as being underwhelmed ( not enough improvement to warrant keeping it.) I dunno. I'd love to know the skinny as the main shop I'm working on is about to move their API out in favor of an ICON and OTB summing with a bunch of outboard.

[LaLaFaV]

Originally Posted by cajonezzz

...the main shop I'm working on is about to move their API out in favor of an ICON and OTB summing with a bunch of outboard.

Hey Craig,
Are you talking about Big Fish, Signature Sound or someplace else I am missing?

Thanks,

[GYang]

Originally Posted by Revelation

Sound on Sound magazine just did an amazing review on this summing box in their August edition. . Hugh Robjohns who I know personally (former BBC engineer) who I trust more than anyone else gave this unit a big thumbs up.

He says it sounds fabulous and sublime. Its huge headroom and the classic transformer mixing topology with a sikly quality that just screams analogue at the listener.

WOW

SOS is magazine for home studio and up to mid-level prosumers, so be careful with conclusions on their reviews related to higher end gears.
It never happened that Sound on Sound wrote anything less than excellent to products from such high caliber manufacturers as AMS-Neve, especially if they advertise heavily there.
Similar trends was so annoying during last year or so in German magazine Guitar and Bass when PRS was praised everywhere so much that many younger guitarists probably started to believe that electric guitar was invented by Paul Reed Smith himself .
AMS-Neve has triggered intense and aggressive marketing campaign in mid and lower (home studio level) magazines (just look on ads in SOS).
Nice reviews are part of that.

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by GYang

SOS is magazine for home studio and up to mid-level prosumers, so be careful with conclusions on their reviews related to higher end gears.
It never happened that Sound on Sound wrote anything less than excellent to products from such high caliber manufacturers as AMS-Neve, especially if they advertise heavily there.
Similar trends was so annoying during last year or so in German magazine Guitar and Bass when PRS was praised everywhere so much that many younger guitarists probably started to believe that electric guitar was invented by Paul Reed Smith himself .
AMS-Neve has triggered intense and aggressive marketing campaign in mid and lower (home studio level) magazines (just look on ads in SOS).
Nice reviews are part of that.

EXACTLY!!!!

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Revelation

Sound on Sound magazine just did an amazing review on this summing box in their August edition. . Hugh Robjohns who I know personally (former BBC engineer) who I trust more than anyone else gave this unit a big thumbs up.

He says it sounds fabulous and sublime. Its huge headroom and the classic transformer mixing topology with a sikly quality that just screams analogue at the listener.

WOW

Wow..interesting..different strokes.
Although I've never found much use for sound on sounds gear reviews..
or any magazine for that matter.

I had one on demo
and it was ..
did not bring anything to the party/or add any magic to the mix

[SnakeCained]

Didn't Hugh Robjohns review the Liquid Channel a year or so back and say how wonderfull it was?

"I rest my case your honour"


P.S To be fair everyone has their own opinion.

[strauss]

SOS magazine used to be some sort of bible when I was starting out!
I thought stuff was great just because they said so, even though I had never used it myself.
Later on when I became able to form my own opinion I realized how much money I had spend on stuff I didn't like!

[Led]

Originally Posted by cajonezzz

the main shop I'm working on is about to move their API out in favor of an ICON and OTB summing with a bunch of outboard.

How much do they want for the API?

[TEMAS]

Originally Posted by strauss

SOS magazine used to be some sort of bible when I was starting out!
I thought stuff was great just because they said so, even though I had never used it myself.
Later on when I became able to form my own opinion I realized how much money I had spend on stuff I didn't like!

Same here.

Then for a while I thought Gearslutz was a place to come and get unbiased reviews. But thats not really the case either.

I'm afraid that in this industry, even if people aren't trying to sell you something, or even if they're not trying to big-up their own importance and reputation, how do you know if they're trying to acheive the same results as you.

Try searching for advice on which mics to choose for tracking drums. Sure you'll find a hundred and one suggestions, but how do you know which person is trying to acheive the same sound that you're looking, not to mention crucial facts such as, how the drummer plays and what kit he/she has.

[raal]

Originally Posted by TEMAS

Same here.

Then for a while I thought Gearslutz was a place to come and get unbiased reviews. But thats not really the case either.

I'm afraid that in this industry, even if people aren't trying to sell you something, or even if they're not trying to big-up their own importance and reputation, how do you know if they're trying to acheive the same results as you.

Try searching for advice on which mics to choose for tracking drums. Sure you'll find a hundred and one suggestions, but how do you know which person is trying to acheive the same sound that you're looking, not to mention crucial facts such as, how the drummer plays and what kit he/she has.

so true, but notwithstanding all of this you can learn a great many things here. if you take the time to research, you begin to get a consenus of sorts. helpful in a country where you can't demo stuff.

no doubt hearing for oneself is king, but GS has been an amazing recourse for me personally. one of the main things GS has taught me is to not rely on any preconceived notion of my own, or anyone else's.

[TEMAS]

Originally Posted by raal

so true, but notwithstanding all of this you can learn a great many things here. if you take the time to research, you begin to get a consenus of sorts. helpful in a country where you can't demo stuff.

no doubt hearing for oneself is king, but GS has been an amazing recourse for me personally. one of the main things GS has taught me is to not rely on any preconceived notion of my own, or anyone else's.

Yes. I agree completely.

It just takes time to work out who's advice is going to help you.

And GS is so much more than just choosing which gear to buy.

[thenewyear]

I'll be interested to read that review. Hugh Robjohns has always beed dead against all summing mixers as a matter of principle.

Unlike some other folk here I still rate SOS's reviews as, even though they pander to their advertisers and rarely give anything an out and out drubbing, they DO give a balanced approach & often flag up drawbacks to certain pieces which the manufacturer's advertising certainly won't.

But now if Hugh Robjohns has suddenly done a U-turn on summing mixers after hearing the 8816 I am inclined to believe that even SOS's reviews are now to be read with a hefty pinch of salt.

I think I'll pop over to the SOS forums & see if anyone has challenged Hugh on his U-turn...

[Cojo]

Originally Posted by GYang

SOS is magazine for home studio and up to mid-level prosumers, so be careful with conclusions on their reviews related to higher end gears.
It never happened that Sound on Sound wrote anything less than excellent to products from such high caliber manufacturers as AMS-Neve, especially if they advertise heavily there.
Similar trends was so annoying during last year or so in German magazine Guitar and Bass when PRS was praised everywhere so much that many younger guitarists probably started to believe that electric guitar was invented by Paul Reed Smith himself .
AMS-Neve has triggered intense and aggressive marketing campaign in mid and lower (home studio level) magazines (just look on ads in SOS).
Nice reviews are part of that.

I've heard this before and I really don't want to belive it's true and think it's sad if it is. I don't want to read rewievs if the magazine is corrupted... regardless if their aim is at homestudios or not!

/Cojo

[A440]

A friend and I were discussing the reviews in SOS recently...and we came to the conclusion that we hadn't seen a negative review in it for over 2 years...IMHO this means that SOS editorial is dictating reviews in proportion to the ammount advertisers pay...

'Resolution' magazine seems to be better..

[Reptil]

I used to read it for techniques (logic, synthesys). Their reviews would be too positive, but on further examination, if you read between the lines there would be some reservations in their articles. Now it's all roses and moonshine. Also ppl. try to sell me stuff all the time, I don't mind about that. The filters just go up.
They lost my attention completely when doing an all out positive review of Logic 7.0.
That was a POS and they just told a fairy tale.

Lately they've really abandoned the high end stuff (checking their articles) and are going for the consumer thing. Trying to "compete" with Future Music probably.

[Revelation]

First off, I know Sound on Sound does not make any money from company's for writing good reviews. Secondly they have many reviews on high end gear all the time. They just wrote a review on the Digidesign Icon, previously reviewed Trident gear, Yamaha DM 2000, and Prism converters for starters. Hugh also brought out the negative points on the Neve unit as well, but I don’t want to paste his review in here. I don’t think SOS would appreciate it, since you need to be a on line subscriber to read the last 6 months of their magazine on line. SOS usually brings out the good and bad points on the gear they review. Of course when they review a Behringer mixer, they are not going to say it sucks don't buy it. If that is the price range for many home studios, you have to review it and compare it with other gear in it's price range. That way you can determine what is the best bang for the buck for you. I don't think Hugh changed his mind on summing out of the box either. You really need to read the whole review.

[Mind-Over-Midi]

Originally Posted by thenewyear

But now if Hugh Robjohns has suddenly done a U-turn on summing mixers after hearing the 8816 I am inclined to believe that even SOS's reviews are now to be read with a hefty pinch of salt.

I agree with you! But I will go on to say that you should take all reviews including fellow Gearslutz reviews with a grain of salt as well, we've got people giving opinions about stuff they've never used, we've got pimps giving reviews, this happens to be one of my biggest pet peeves they mostly like the gear they happen to sell, and mostly everything else is crap (notice I did say mostly). We've got folks who hate Plugins no matter what and will not hesitate to call a new product crap, because it just has to be. All I'm saying is there is that advertising money is not the only reason people give biased reviews. It's good to get as many opinions as you can but in the end trying a product yourself is the only way you can be sure of what YOU think of a product.

[GYang]

Originally Posted by Cojo

I've heard this before and I really don't want to belive it's true and think it's sad if it is. I don't want to read rewievs if the magazine is corrupted... regardless if their aim is at homestudios or not!

/Cojo

You are probably very young my friend , so you're right to believe in good things and ethics.
Here we talk more about business focused than corrupted magazine. I still subscribe it, but definitely not to make final decision based on their reviews.
The whole point of almost all magazines is that bigger advertising cash flow is 'associated' with loyalty to brands and if magazine owners would be fair to their readers magazines would cost very minor, symbolic price (say 50 cents or 1 $) and advertisers would pay for all costs and some profit margin.
I have so much crappy gears in my place due to all those magazines fuuck and for bigger part of the best gears I never found anything useful there.
What we have now are ridiculously expensive glossy compilations of manufacturer's leaflets with some 'expert's opinion' called reviews.

[Cojo]

Originally Posted by GYang

You are probably very young my friend

Thank you, you are to kind!

Here we talk more about business focused than corrupted magazine. I still subscribe it, but definitely not to make final decision based on their reviews.
The whole point of almost all magazines is that bigger advertising cash flow is 'associated' with loyalty to brands and if magazine owners would be fair to their readers magazines would cost very minor, symbolic price (say 50 cents or 1 $) and advertisers would pay for all costs and some profit margin.

Yeah I know... corrupted may be a little to hard, and I'm still going to read them! It would be cool thou if the adverticers paid for the mag.

I have so much crappy gears in my place due to all those magazines fuuck and for bigger part of the best gears I never found anything useful there.
What we have now are ridiculously expensive glossy compilations of manufacturer's leaflets with some 'expert's opinion' called reviews.

Sorry to hear about your crappy gear... but as they say, when you've come to the bottom ther is only one way and it's UP!

I also really don't relay on one review or one persons oppinion. Usually I seek a lot of info before I make any purchases. And It also gives you lots of reason to buy those fanzy magazines and look at all the cool gear on glossy paper...

/Cojo

[SnakeCained]

You know if is still interested in an 8816 (which I was when it was announced a few years agotutt ) I would get hold of one listen to it and then decide. Obvious really.

Do you think one advert a month would outway thousands of readers walking away?

I like magazines because I can flick through them while, ahem, "doing my business"

[cajonezzz]

Originally Posted by LaLaFaV

Hey Craig,
Are you talking about Big Fish, Signature Sound or someplace else I am missing?

Thanks,

Yep, someplace else- Amazing room btw.

The console will be coming up on the market very soon. 2003 API 48 Channel Legacy Plus with Uptown Automation

Have we met before btw?

cz

[LaLaFaV]

Originally Posted by cajonezzz

Have we met before btw?

Sorry, no. I've been in bands in the S.D. music scene for almost 15 years now. I've met alot of people since it's a pretty tight-knit scene, but unfortunately we haven't crossed paths. I'm more of a musician than an engineer. I might contact you in the future if I need a great drum room though... haha. I'm sick of recording myself in living rooms and garages, although, I've tracked at Big Fish a bit. Love that place! Signature Sound looks great, too.
Anyway, thanks for the info Craig.

Sorry for derailing this thread, please carry on....

[upscaps]

has anyone on GS actually heard the neve 8816?

[Pryde]

Originally Posted by upscaps

has anyone on GS actually heard the neve 8816?

I have indeed heard the 8816. I bought one about two months ago. I bought it to replace a Soundcraft Ghost 32LE I had been using. The Ghost sounded good but it was rather large and I used very little of the EQ and routing.... aux sends... plus more channels than I needed. It seemed like 80% of what it offered was just sitting there doing nothing. I also wanted to scale down a bit. I looked around and decided on the Neve 8816 and a Mackie Big Knob for routing to multiple monitors and such.

I LOVE it. The “width” knob alone is worth the money. I kick that thing in and it adds presence and well, width. It may be only perceived… but then what isn’t? All I know is that my mixes sound much better through it, IMO. I have a before and after if you’d like to hear it... below. The issue is I DID remix the track in the box and with the 8816 so it’s not an accurate reference. In any case, you will be able to hear a mix on it… and one on the Ghost, albeit with less attention to ITB EQ.

Here’s a quickie photo of my very modest rack.


Links to the audio:

NEVE
GHOST

[seaneldon]

i screwed around with one at the vintage king party at skyline in manhattan today. it was cool. real crunchy high end. could be kind of cool if used the right way. i was suprised i enjoyed it as much as i did. i figured it'd be bullshit.

the fader package is cool, too.

[blaugruen7]

neve sounds like less bass and less volume for me?
different mix?
again i have to try it vor myself.

[rx3000]

One of the interesting things for me in the review was hidden in the the last couple of paragraphs. I don't have it to hand at the moment but the reviewer suggested the same sonic qualities were obtained by just patching a stereo 2 bus signal in, it kind of undermined the idea the summing in this case was responsible for the qualities he liked. This reminds me of that Bob Katz (?) article about strapping something analogue on your mix bus and seeing if you like it.

PS checked out a few summing boxes but felt none really brought anything to my mixes. However, have kept the XSUM as a useful line mixer/summer, helps when using outboard in the mix, and pretty neutral.

[DaBear]

[QUOTE=Cojo;811436]Thank you, you are to kind!

Yeah I know... corrupted may be a little to hard, and I'm still going to read them! It would be cool thou if the adverticers paid for the mag.



Being British, they are just NICE, never brutal, in your face..I mean...
Personally, I NEVER read reviews. These days, if you are serious buyer, you can get gear for evaluation anyway. If you know what do you want / need / can afford, you dont need to ask everyone on the street about it.

You know that one: "opinions are like arsehole, everyone has one!!!"

I read Sound On Sound for interviews, features etc...keep them coming! And have every issue from the very first one (mint condition!)

[Revelation]

Originally Posted by rx3000

One of the interesting things for me in the review was hidden in the the last couple of paragraphs. I don't have it to hand at the moment but the reviewer suggested the same sonic qualities were obtained by just patching a stereo 2 bus signal in, it kind of undermined the idea the summing in this case was responsible for the qualities he liked. This reminds me of that Bob Katz (?) article about strapping something analogue on your mix bus and seeing if you like it.

PS checked out a few summing boxes but felt none really brought anything to my mixes. However, have kept the XSUM as a useful line mixer/summer, helps when using outboard in the mix, and pretty neutral.

Yes this is what was said in the review, as well as Paul White on another summing box called the Sumo. I don't think the summing out of the box makes it have that special sound, but more so of music leaving the DAW and going through some good gear. Hence routing your two bus mix into a Neve summing box can get you that nice sound you may be looking for. This is still cheaper than getting two Neve pre's, so it's still a good opiton. Recently I was thinking maybe a Massive Passive may be another great box to put your two bus mix through and then just route back into your DAW.