Monitor Control

[theveiv]

C'mon ya'll...holla at ya boi wit some funky tips to help a brotha get some conversion set up right in these hard knock streets.

[audiokid]

Shoot higher and get a monitor controller for starters. You have no idea what you are missing until you use the Dangerous Monitor ST.

I have no idea why so many here buy Lynx converters. I guess they are good enough and the most popular here. Which is a good thing for buyers because there are a lot of them for sale in the buy and sell. One right now.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gears...wire-card.html

[theveiv]

what other great converters do you suggest?

[audiokid]

Good question. How many I/O do you need? What type of work are you doing?

[theveiv]

Mainly recording and mixing in my project studio. I would basically need 2 ins for a stereo recording chain, 2 outs for monitoring and 2 i/o's for the master buss coming out of PT into the outboard comps/eqs going back into PT. All in all: 4 ins/ 4 outs of conversion.

That's about it!

[theveiv]

What about the Lavry Engineering (4496-16) 4ch. A/D & 4ch. D/A ?

[audiokid]

Lavry and Prism are beautiful, open and silky.

hybrid, right on.

I save all my sessions on a second DAW. I never save the same session on the same computer. Never do a sample rate conversion if you are OTB. This defeats what you just gained OTB.

example: Are you tracking at 88.2 in pro tools > 2 buss DA> OTB summing/hardware> 2 buss AD back to Pro Tools and then converting that session to 44.1 to make a CD or online audio?

[theveiv]

I guess that would be something I do, but then again, I need to learn things from people like you. How do you save your sessions on another computer? Do you send your mix buss A/D channels to another system? I'd really like for you to explain in a bit more detail. This seems like really important advice.

Keep in mind that i'm currently upgrading from a Digi 003. I have always wanted to be OTB because there's something missing from ITB. I just received some of my outboard gear. Here's my upgrade:

Stereo/Dual mono Source-->BAE 1073mp-->BAE 10DC-->(Converter)-->Mac Pro.
Mix Buss: Pro Tools-->Alan Smart C2-->A-Designs HAMMER EQ-->UBK Electra(soon)-->Pro Tools.

It's my first OTB setup ever. Whats the best way to make all of this work perfectly in your opinion?

Thanks for your knowledge and time man!

[audiokid]

You are very welcome. I embrace people who want better. You are on the right path and you are Canadian too!

I asked that last question to save you time and money. But it also cost money to do it the right way. But "right" is subjective.

I have written many threads on this subject and it can get long winded from this point on. So many people trust ITB and trust paper. I use my ears.
So without going to far off path here... start reading why people save on a second box. Follow the people who are doing this and ignore the ones that think its bunk. Hows that for confidence.

Each step you take in the high end world are baby steps ( the last 2%) but it is that last 2% that separates the smear from the open and lush sounding mixes.

Not to mention, I get the final mix done way faster.


Without going on and on. If you have the funds, I would suggest 2 AD DA converters. One for recording and playback and a second for mastering and playback.

One goes on one DAW and the other goes on the second DAW.

Or, you could invest in something like the MR2000SBK .

The point is, I avoid SRC ( sample rate conversion) like the plague. We record a beautiful song on example Pro Tools at 88.2, send it OTB to add some glorious analog mojo then save that unscathed mix to a second record that is set at 44.1, ready to me burned to CD or transfered online. This way you aren't letting protools screw it all up with its math. Follow? The sound is better this way.

And one you start working this way, you will never go back. The next thing you are going to want to invest in is, something like the Dangerous Monitor ST and a summing amp. .

Converters are a great place to start.

I track using either a few RME ADI-8QS's or Lavry AD11. Once my song/session is ready, I send stems OTB, do the hybrid dance and save the analog 2 buss via an Orpheus to a second computer that has Sequoia 12 loaded. I do the mastering there and finish it. Welcome to the tricks of mastering.

You don't need what I have but I highly recommend following the method.

I use the Dangerous Monitor ST to connect all the AD DA coming from all the sources. My mixes are extremely accurate. There is no guessing. Monitoring is a big one to learn everything you can.

Make sense so far?

Hope that helps. Got to run for now.

[theveiv]

This makes total sense to me. I never even thought about SRC that way man. I too always feel like going on what I hear rather than blueprint specs. Im going to take the route you suggest! I'm also looking into Sequoia 12 as we speak. Never even knew this existed! Thanks so much man! Hope we talk again!

[theveiv]

One question I do have though now thinking about it, is since sample rates are basically snap shots of the audio wave, isn't properly converting, as you just taught me, basically the same result as recording and mixing at 44.1 the entire time? Or does more quality come through in the snapshots?

I know most people in recording now a days want ultra clear, loud as can be mixes, and if that's what they want and they pay me for it, I will do my absolute best to give them that. But personally, I am against the Hi-fi loudness war. My life's dream is to bring music back to the "in the air tonight" days of music. I'm only 23, but I still miss the 70s and 80s! I also want to learn how to record to tape! Headroom and harmonics is what it's all about in my eyes...and ears!

[psycho_monkey]

Don't worry about src if you're getting your stuff mastered elsewhere, and if you're going for the lynx get the USB option - the fw card is the least stable interface I've ever used.

[theveiv]

Thanks for the tip man. I think ive heard about the FW unstabalibilty once before. I'm pretty certain the Hilo comes with LT Usb anyways so it's all good! :D

[jgimbel]

I'm curious about the monitor controller situation myself. I just bought a Lynx Aurora 16 (for a number of reasons - good experience with them in the past and of a number of folks I know personally who use them and love them, as well as the best channel-count-per-cost while still being good quality). I got Firewire. I've been using Firewire for a while so I know it's stable with my system, works great with my setup.

Anyway, I've been doing a bunch of research on monitor controllers since I need one now too. After everything I've read right now I'm between the SM Pro Audio M-Patch 2 and the Radial MC3. Right now it doesn't make sense for me to spend over a grand on this, so I'm going with one of these for now. Either of them is good for me feature-wise - the headphone out (or two outs on the Radial) would free up my current headphone amp to be used just for clients, so that'd be nice. Curious to see what other folks say/use.

[audiokid]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Don't worry about src if you're getting your stuff mastered elsewhere, and if you're going for the lynx get the USB option - the fw card is the least stable interface I've ever used.

No, this has nothing to do with whether you get your music mastered or not, think about what you just said. If you are out of the box, capture to another box, not the same your session is at. Unless of course, you are at the same sr, but why would you be recording at 44.1 when 88.1 or greater has more sheen? And why would you give your final track to a ME less pro. Makes absolutely no sense.
Do research and learn more about this. Follow the leaders, not the sheep.

Onward bound we go,

Cheers!

[audiokid]

I stand corrected:

If you are leaving your final at the same sr as your session, say 88.1 or greater, then yes, I suppose you are okay to record on the same session.

[theveiv]

but the mastering engineer would still have to convert it to 44.1 the proper way. So I guess before sending it to anyone you should ask them their SRC method before going any further.

[JoleFIN]

Originally Posted by theveiv

Keep in mind that i'm currently upgrading from a Digi 003. I have always wanted to be OTB because there's something missing from ITB.

Out of curiosity, what's missing at ITB for you, is it the hands on control or "the glue, warmth, dimension" of the sound?

If it's the latter, I'd suggest to check out Slate VCC which solved the last missing 2% bit of sound I was hunting for years with ITB mixes. Haven't tried the Slate VTM (don't find it relevant for electronic and pop music) but knowing the other Slate products this has got to be a wonderful tape emulation, so this could be your mixing-to-tape experience if you need it with ie. rock/metal.
Slate Digital

For hands on control... after ditching the 01V/03D mixers I've mostly been a mouse-guy myself But you may want to go for the Euphonix Artist Series product MC Control and MC Mix (now owned by Avid). Combining these with the plugins above you are hands on with a SSL/Neve/RCA/Trident/API summing with total recall control, with a fraction of the price and no upkeep costs of a big console.
Euphonix :: Artist Series

[Andrew Kinsey]

Originally Posted by theveiv

What about the Lavry Engineering (4496-16) 4ch. A/D & 4ch. D/A ?

These would deffinately be a step up from the Aurora's although a bit more expensive, and you would have to have an multi channel AES/EBU interface to get these integrated into your system, and you'd still need a monitor controller.

We run Blue DA's to feed our console here, and the main advantage is that whatever you send out from the computer will sound better before it even hits the console. Drums sound more punchy, reverb's are more detailed etc.. This can be compensated for in the way that one mixes however IMO it makes it easier to get to a good mix if the DA's that feed the console are working with you, rather than against you.

Then likewise on the AD side it would also make a difference to what you record back in, especially the main mix from the console.

Another route that you could go is to get the Aurora's, and the Hilo. Then you've got all the outputs you need, but using the better converters for your main monitoring and capture.

[theveiv]

JoleFIN, I guess it's sonic character that outboard gives. I won't be strictly OTB, I still want the best of both worlds.

What i'm looking for is great expandability. I want to be able to have as much outboard gear as I want in the future without being limited with i/os or having a huge console.

The Hilo and Aurora thing wont work I think. I was now aiming to get a Hilo + Aurora 16. I would of used the Aurora 16 strictly for outboard hardware inserts into PT, but the connections cant work as the Hilo is too limited.

I think I;m gonna have to bite the bullet and get PT HD....noooooo!

[soundgear]

You NEED a HD OMNI
Better conversion than the LYNX and a built in monitor controller .
Exactly what you need . Latency stays at AVIDs specs which is always better than third party interfaces . Get a OMNI the solution to all your problems .
They say the LYNX sounds about the same as a 192 maybe a bit better. There is a huge difference between the 192 and OMNI . Omni,s can be bought new for $1800 or Iv seen them used as low as $1400 all on EBAY check it out

We have our own little canadian thread here
These friggen american hossers don't know there talking bout EH !

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by audiokid

No, this has nothing to do with whether you get your music mastered or not, think about what you just said. If you are out of the box, capture to another box, not the same your session is at. Unless of course, you are at the same sr, but why would you be recording at 44.1 when 88.1 or greater has more sheen? And why would you give your final track to a ME less pro. Makes absolutely no sense.
Do research and learn more about this. Follow the leaders, not the sheep.

Onward bound we go,

Cheers!

Please re-read what I wrote and think about what you've just written!

I'm far from a rank amateur. When I'm mixing OTB or ITB I capture mixes at the session resolution, then I give them to the mastering engineer to make the final 16/44.1 master.

Obviously there's no point doing any src before then. If its a project that's not worth sending to a ME, it's obviously not worth worrying about the minutiae of SRC in my opinion.

I find the advantages of having stems and mixes in the session far more convenient than messing around with external capture. Needless to say, if you're mixing ITB/with hardware inserts, it's a moot point anyway.

So yeah...I'm good with my research thanks! 10 years of working professionally is pretty good for that...

[audiokid]

Indeed.

Please read the post below that one.

Monitor Control

regards,