DE-ESSER 500-Series 2012 : your thoughts & EXPERIENCES ?

[warhead]

In my experience, the xqp is the simplest and gets straight to the point with extremely fast action and smooth sound that stays out of the way. If you're not into tweaking and extra features, I'd give it a shot.

War

[thesoundpost]

I only have the DerrEsser and like it a lot. I use it in High Frequency Limit mode only though. The De-ess function works, but you have to be careful adjusting the threshold if you don't want to hear it working. I guess that goes for all de-essers The HF limiting mode does what I expect it to do and is fairly transparent.

I had the Pendulum here for a couple of days wouldn't want to trade that for the DerrEsser to be honest. I expected more than it was capable of doing for my purposes.

I have always been intrigued by the XQP, but never had the chance to test it.

Happy de-esser hunting!

[elam]

Thanks Warren.Yeah,fast action is a must here.As it will be use mostly for Hip Hop talent.

My only fear with the Dane,is the limited frequency choice... I'm often end up de-essing int the 9.5K area just for my own voice.I wanna be able to reach whatever problematic spot without being stuck.The price is right and the guy seems to be serious and nice.

I can't find a lot of feedback about the Pendulum (even amongst Quartet users).

Did you have a chance to compare it the others War ? (efficiency,sonics,etc)

[elam]

Originally Posted by thesoundpost

I had the Pendulum here for a couple of days wouldn't want to trade that for the DerrEsser to be honest. I expected more than it was capable of doing for my purposes.

Happy de-esser hunting!

Thanks for your input thesoundpost,

Can you elaborate on why you preferred the Derr-esser ? Was it for pure de-essing or do you use it for other task too (string squicks,cymbals top end,etc...).

I'm really curious about how those two compare.

[thesoundpost]

I compared the Pendulum to the DerrEsser for pure de-essing and found the DerrEsser to be more transparent. The Pendulum seemed to change the overall sound of the signal, not only the sss parts. On top of that, the DerrEsser has this wonderful HF limiter that can be used on a variety of signals, including the ones you just mentioned. It works like a charm, at least to my ears. Since most of my work is made up of Audio Post Production I use it on my dialogue bus for sweetening those horrible sounding clip mics!

Of course, someone else might hear these 2 units in an entirely different way. Anyway, I hope this helps.

[elam]

It IS really helpful.I want personal experiences.

[elam]

Does anyone have an hands-on experience with the Weiss A1 ? Very hard to find infos about this piece of hardware (well a bit of a software too) ...

[elam]

Bump

[airmate]

Great topic! I have started a good portion of the previous 500 series de-esser threads...

For me the search was over with the Pendulum 500 series de-esser. In fact, I talked Greg into making this one, and that's why he sold me s/n 001.

Contrary to the previous statement I find it less obtrusive / more transparent than the DerrEsser. I have used/owned all ELI units throughout the years, and I never really fell in love with any of them. To my ears they are good problem solvers, but they all sound a bit veiled to me, probably due to the tons of IC op amps inside these units. They all get the job done, but none of them actually makes the tone "nicer", for the lack of a possibly more apt description.

Anyway, the pendulum de-esser is certainly as fast as it needs to be, and it has a very clear, pristine signal path. I like the broad range of frequencies, too.

Sometimes I prefer the 19" SPL de-esser (HW, not the plugin!), because it's super effective and super easy to set up. Probably the most effective de-esser on the market, but unfortunately it sounds a bit veiled as well.

Furthermore, the trusty API 525 should not remain unnoticed in this thread.
It's one of my most favourite vocal compressors anyway, and due to the fixed super fast attack (15 microseconds, even faster than the fastest setting on the 1176) it can really tame those nasty and harsh consonants. It sounds pretty thick anyway. And it has a de-esser mode on top of it, which can come in very handy at times.

I have tracked a lot of vocals with the 525, and when it's set up appropriately you can get very thick and "polished" sounding results that sit in the mix very well and do not need much more treatment afterwards.

In fact, the 525 followed by the Pendulum de-esser is one of my most favourite processing chains for lead vocals when mixing client projects. I have tons of other options, but I come back to this combination very often.

[thesoundpost]

Originally Posted by thesoundpost

Of course, someone else might hear these 2 units in an entirely different way.

Told you :-)

[elam]

...You told me

Thanks for your input airmate.In fact I'm a big fan of the API sonics but for the de-esser I'd like more options (the 525 is on my comp. list for sure).

As a side note,I've received an answer from Daniel Weiss.He still in the US from the AES and gave me an approximate price of $1600 (base on the price in euro) for the A1.

The deesser on the A1 seems as versatile as the DS-500 and Derr-esser.And it include a pre. (the de-esser detector only seems to be digital tho.).So price-wise I wouldn't mind go there.

Keep your experiences coming gentlemen.Let me here your thought,I'm still hunting...

[airmate]

Originally Posted by elam

Thanks for your input airmate.In fact I'm a big fan of the API sonics but for the de-esser I'd like more options (the 525 is on my comp. list for sure).

Yes, I understand that.
Some people say the 525 is nothing for the faint hearted, especially during tracking. But once you got the hang of it it's an absolutely beautiful tool. Of course I can see why you are looking for a de-esser nonetheless, but part of my point was that when you compress a vocal with the 525 you might get away without any de-esser at all. And while I end up using de-essers quite often, I always try to avoid them whenever possible...

[elam]

Originally Posted by airmate

when you compress a vocal with the 525 you might get away without any de-esser at all. And while I end up using de-essers quite often, I always try to avoid them whenever possible...

I got your point airmate.And I highly appreciate your input.

The thing is that I wanted to avoid to slip into the :"Check your mic placement, pencil and rubber band, use a SM7B or Re-20,Paul McCartney put his hand in front of his mouth,use a ribbon,Never use a de-esser for tracking..." type of thread...

This one is really for those (like you & I) who USE a de-esser for tracking/mixing vocals (even if we not necessarily want to )

So,don't hesitate to share more of your thoughts and experience regarding those piece of gear or others... it's always valuable.

[AB3]

XQP is best I have tried and I have tried quite a few. Just be careful not to take too much away! Some people like the s sound in words and think it is part of speaking and singing! I think sometimes engineers are more hypersensitive to certain sounds than "regular folks." (I guess I am in trouble now.)

[airmate]

Originally Posted by elam

I got your point airmate.And I highly appreciate your input.

The thing is that I wanted to avoid to slip into the :"Check your mic placement, pencil and rubber band, use a SM7B or Re-20,Paul McCartney put his hand in front of his mouth,use a ribbon,Never use a de-esser for tracking..." type of thread...

This one is really for those (like you & I) who USE a de-esser for tracking/mixing vocals (even if we not necessarily want to )

So,don't hesitate to share more of your thoughts and experience regarding those piece of gear or others... it's always valuable.

I totally understand your point, and I fully agree with you!

However, I have mentioned the 525 in the first place, because it actually is a de-esser! Besides its extremely fast compression which can help with harsh consonants, it has a dedicated "D-S" mode which makes the unit more sensitive for sibilance.

I have had great results tracking with the 525 and with its D-S mode engaged, especially with thinner voices and bright microphones such as the Neumann M269c. That's why I keep mentioning this module so annoyingly...

[thesoundpost]

Agreed about the 525. I have used the DS mode as well. It doesn't always work, but when it does, it's very effective.

[elam]

Originally Posted by AB3

XQP is best I have tried and I have tried quite a few. Just be careful not to I think sometimes engineers are more hypersensitive to certain sounds than "regular folks." (I guess I am in trouble now.)

You're right!

Airmate & thesoundpost, how the DS mode works ? You push the switch and you let it do its job ? No way to select freqs ?

I've looked at it as the HPF/LPF on the 550A...

[airmate]

Originally Posted by elam

Airmate & thesoundpost, how the DS mode works ? You push the switch and you let it do its job ? No way to select freqs ?

Exactly! It's a sidechain filter that makes the compressor more sensitive to harsh frequencies. There is no way to adjust it, but when it works it works really well.

I like the fool-proof operation of the SPL de-esser and the versatility (many frequency choices) and transparency of the Pendulum, but sometimes the 525 is just enough.

[elam]

I got you.Thanks for the precisions.

As for the SPL,I put it out of my list.Due to the fact that I read that a lot of users were talking about the veil it put on the sound.Like a lot of plugins I tried... but I'm still open.

I'm still curious about the Weiss.But I doubt there's a lot of users around.

[airmate]

Originally Posted by elam

I got you.Thanks for the precisions.

As for the SPL,I put it out of my list.Due to the fact that I read that a lot of users where talking about the veil it put on the sounds.Like a lot of plugins I tried... but I'm still open.

I'm still curious about the Weiss.But I doubt there's a lot of users around.

If I were you, I'd at least give the SPL a test drive. It does sound a bit veiled, but I don't know any other de-esser that tracks so well, it's really intuitive and easy to use. And it can help you get rid of a lot of problems without having to fiddle around with threshold, frequency etc.

Very often I use a good analog EQ after it and that can help greatly to lift the veil. A pair of Siemens W295b does wonders, for instance.

The pendulum certainly is a lot more transparent, but still the SPL gets a lot of use over here. I find it really great to have the choice between them. Very often I end up using the pendulum on the lead vox and the SPL on bg vox buss...

[elam]

Originally Posted by airmate

If I were you, I'd at least give the SPL a test drive.

I definitely will.

(and you're right the hi band on the Siemens 295b is pure crystal,I've tested it once,incredible! So it might be a great tool to re-inject some air afterwards,nice!!!)

[thesoundpost]

Airmate, I want Elam to know that I don't agree with your description of the DerrEsser. To describe it as sounding veiled is at least a bit unfair. I do agree, however, with you calling it a good problem solver. It does indeed not make the tone "nicer". The DerrEsser is a tool and as such I don't expect it to enhance the tone. I have compressors, eq's and other units to take care of that. Maybe the Pendulum changes the tone in a way that sounds good to you. Fair enough. I prefer having a de-esser that only takes care of those annoying sss's and leaves the rest of the signal alone. That's why I landed on the DerrEsser.

Anyway, just wanted to clarify. Each to their own, horses for courses, etcetera.

[airmate]

Originally Posted by thesoundpost

Airmate, I want Elam to know that I don't agree with your description of the DerrEsser. To describe it as sounding veiled is at least a bit unfair. I do agree, however, with you calling it a good problem solver. It does indeed not make the tone "nicer". The DerrEsser is a tool and as such I don't expect it to enhance the tone. I have compressors, eq's and other units to take care of that. Maybe the Pendulum changes the tone in a way that sounds good to you. Fair enough. I prefer having a de-esser that only takes care of those annoying sss's and leaves the rest of the signal alone. That's why I landed on the DerrEsser.

Anyway, just wanted to clarify. Each to their own, horses for courses, etcetera.

I do not wish to argue at all, please don't get me wrong!

I certainly agree that a de-esser should be a tool that gets a job done. I do not expect "tone shaping / coulouring" qualities from such a tool, either.
And I also agree that the DerrEsser is a really useful piece of gear.

However – to my ears allof the Empirical Labs units impart a certain veil to the sound. To my ears they don't have any "euphonic" qualities at all, nothing gets nicer just by being fed through an ELI unit. In fact, it's more the opposite.
I find them all a bit two-dimensional and flat sounding. They're great tools when something has to be repaired, but I never found they add anything pleasing to the sound, at least not in an "audiophile" way.

To my ears there is a certain "IC OpAmp" veil in all ELI units. Something very subtle, but unpleasing to my ears nonetheless. I prefer my 1176 and LA-2A over a Distressor all the time, and I have replaced my FATSO with a real studer deck. Their "tone" is much more satisfying to me.

But that's nothing more than my personal experience, yours may differ of course...

[elam]

Originally Posted by thesoundpost

Airmate, I want Elam to know that I don't agree with your description of the DerrEsser. To describe it as sounding veiled is at least a bit unfair.

Originally Posted by airmate

However – to my ears allof the Empirical Labs units impart a certain veil to the sound. To my ears they don't have any "euphonic" qualities at all, nothing gets nicer just by being fed through an ELI unit. In fact, it's more the opposite.

I got the point of both of you guys.

I'm agree with you thesoundpost.I see the de-esser as a tool for fixing issues.But as I said in my early posts,going analog for that particular piece,means that I wouldn't be mad if the unit color the sound.Again,as soon as it doesn't veil it,I'm good.After that, it's a matter of color...and taste.

Meaning that I understand airmate the same way.Visibly ELI gears are not the type of color your ears like ! (which is brave on a "pro-ELI" spot like GS).

I wanted to add that, for me, adding a de-esser during vocal tracking add to the artist "confidence factor".
Talents who know they got strong "ess-esses", tend to hold it back performance-wise.Especially rappers.(as technical as they can be vocaly).
Puting a de-esser in the chain bring their confidence back and they can focus again on performance more than their ess-esses... my 2c

[thesoundpost]

I didn't want to argue either. I just wanted to state my opinion. I did. Veiled is not the word that springs to mind talking about the DerrEsser. At least not to mine. But you hear things differently and you have different expectations, so our opinions differ. No big deal. The OP should be presented with multiple options and opinions, so this is cool.

The only piece of advice I would give at this point: get 2 or 3 units for a demo and decide for yourself.

[elam]

Originally Posted by thesoundpost

The OP should be presented with multiple options and opinions, so this is cool.

That what I asked

Originally Posted by thesoundpost

The only piece of advice I would give at this point: get 2 or 3 units for a demo and decide for yourself.

It's the beginning of my hunt.So I was asking around.Next step is to try them.I'll keep you updated.

Thanks for your inputs.

[KFMG]

To further confuse things... I highly recommend the BAC 500 compressor. It has a side-chain filter which provides excellent deessing. It's works flawlessly on "bright" sources and doesn't compromise intelligibility in any way.

Since it seems like you're just getting into the 500 series, this could kill two birds for you. I can't speak highly enough about this compressor.

[elam]

Good Lawd!
I was having a look at this one yesterday (as a comp only).

The only problem I see here is that I like to track with a comp. AND a de-esser.So I coulnd't use both at the same time on the way in.

But I think this one gonna end up on my compressor list too...

[KFMG]

Originally Posted by elam

The only problem I see here is that I like to track with a comp. AND a de-esser.So I coulnd't use both at the same time on the way in.

But I think this one gonna end up on my compressor list too...

No problem at all actually. That's exactly how I use it...during tracking.