2 track analog recorder tips and recommedations?

[cmj2430]

Hello. I have a SH Equinox on order so it seems to make sense to sum everything down to tape. I'm recording my own indie rock band and could use the standard benefits of analog. So I'm looking at a good 2 track tape machine: all suggestions are welcomed--a preferred machine (reliability, ease of use, etc), tape size/speed, ease of purchase (I see alot of Otari's floating around, fewer Studer's and most old Ampex's seem to have been disassembled for parts) anything else you may have learned. Sorry to throw out a rookie question on high end but hopefully the knowledge thrown out will make it worthwhile.

Thanks in advance for the help....much obliged.

[drBill]

Of course the Studers would most likely be your best bet. They were pretty much the top end in terms of mechanics. All the brands had loyalists though. All the 2" machines have their own "flavor". For instance, I have an MCI which had a big fat bottom that the rock and R&B groups that I worked with loved.

I'd suggest running at 30ips. Although your tape costs will be double, the reduced amount of tape noise is worth it in this digital age of no noise. The potential benefit of running at 15ips would be a bigger bottom end, but at the cost of additional noise. If you're dumping into PT, have a lot of noise gates or automation - or if you play LOUD music, you may be able to mitigate the noise issues and capatalize on the low end bump.

Perhaps the best thing you can do to decide which machine to get would be to find out if you have an independant tech in your area that specializes on one of the brands. Going with that brand would be a good call. 2" machines require a far amount of upkeep maintainence and techs are expensive. If you're not rolling tape that much - only recording your own band, transfering to PT after tracking, etc. - you can cut down a lot of wear and tear (and therefore expense) on the machine. That can save you a lot of $$$.

I'm going to be selling my MCI JH-24 in a few weeks after my vacation. Most of my work is in the film business now and PT is the only thing that anyone there is using. My JH24 has barely seen any use in the last 8 years or so. My asking price will basically be a song, as I just need to make some space in the studio. (ie: super cheap) It works, but has a few idiosyncracies going on right now. It's not perfect, but if you have a little inclination to work on it and can put up with occationally swapping a card or two, it might be a good place for you (or someone out there on a budget) to start. If you're interested at all, send me a PM.

Good luck with your analog search whatever you end up with. Analog tape is truly magical!

Bill

[vernier]

15 ips if fine, the choice of many a tone freak. As for half track, almost any will do, even Tascam or Teac. Earlier the better.

[drBill]

Ahhhh, I see you're looking for a 2 track machine not a 2 INCH machine. I'd suggest an ATR. Built like a tank.

[cmj2430]

Thanks for the feedback so far. Are people using 2-track tape after summing or is everyone going back to PT? It seems like it'd be better to stay analog but it seems from other threads most like going back to digital again. I'd rather give the ME a reel to work off of and use the Masterlink just for backup, am I wrong for thinking this way?

also, any particular model ATR? ATR-700 perhaps?

[TheReal7]

Yes, I did that for my album. After I bounced to dual mono in PT, I went to a friends studio and we ran it through the board, with a little buss comp, then into a 1/4" ATR machine. I gave the ME the reels. You would want to look into the ATR102 and 104 machines.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by vernier

As for half track, almost any will do, even Tascam or Teac.

Dude i do agree with you about the benefit of an analog mixdown machine.

But the statement above is going too far.

We didn't mixdown to either machine(if you were serious that is) if the choice was there so why would you suggest for the guy to do it now?

Not all analog machines are created alike and in the old days its what seperated the pro studios and the home studios.

Now if the choice is 1/4" vs. 1/2" well there is benefits for both.

[raal]

Originally Posted by cmj2430

also, any particular model ATR? ATR-700 perhaps?

if you're in the US and can spend some bucks i'd go with an ATR 102 1/2", flux heads, as would 99% of the people out there.

a studer 820 is great also, but parts are expensive. if you do a search there's lots of material. good luck and congrats. i'm jealous.

[perun]

If you want to be in "standard", buy an AMPEX ATR!!! 1/2 inch 2 track machine!!!

If you want to build a museum, buy the vintage tube STUDER machine!

If you want to have the best sound, the hottest and widest one, buy the STUDER A80 or A800 mk3, 1" 8 track, send the heads to JRF and let him do the upgrade to 1" 2 track monster!!! That's what we plan to do till the end of the year!

Hmmm... I would surely pick the last option!?

Cheers...

[Fletcher]

I don't know about "standard"... but an Ampex deck rebuilt by ATR Service with Aria electronics is never a bad idea. Me, I prefer Studer A-80-RC machines... a 1/2" version in excellent condition could set you back as much as $7,500- but you can also get a 1/4" headstack and guides for what I would consider the best of both worlds. You can't put 1/2" heads and guides on a 1/4" machine without changing the bias card [which is a stone bitch to find!!] so if you're thinking of getting a machine that does both 1/2 and 1/4 you'll need to start with a 1/2" machine and find the 1/4" parts [I have them if you need them].

ATR 102's and 104's can be a bit touchy which is why you want one that has been gone over by ATR Service. The transport employs no capstan which means that if you have anything even remotely squirrelly in your transport logic the strength of the motors will easily snap the tape [which isn't a clean break you can splice back together... the tape stretches around the break point and you're pretty much fukked... and yes, I am speaking from experience]. The machines sound excellent, very clear, very "Hi-Fi", not quite as "ballsy" as a Studer in my opinion but I'm an East Coast kind of guy [it always seemed that guys from the East Coast gravitated towards Studers and guys from the West Coast gravitated towards ATR's... but like most generalizations there were definite exceptions].

I've found the Otari's to sound rather boring... but a 5050 in good condition [if such a thing still exists] is a useful tool. Pretty much everything I've ever heard with a Tascam label on it wasn't anything to write home about... but it will store audio even though they are a stone bitch to align. If you can find one, the Ampex 350 with Innovonics electronics was a pretty serious tool and the Ampex 440 had about the best signal to noise ratio of any machine ever built if my memory serves me correctly.

Best of luck with your search.

[cmj2430]

I know this one has been debated elsewhere, but I'd like to hear more about the differences you've found between 1/4" and 1/2" tape w/15 and 30ips speeds. Are 1/2" heads worth the $$ and effort to find?

[lucey]

Cheaper Ampex decks in good shape can be great. Wayne at Audio Village is usually good for something there.

(Do a search on 15, 30 and 1/2 1/4, that's everywhere.)

I dont care for cheaper decks like Otari and Fostex and Tascam ... the analog parts get in the way too much to allow the tape 'magic' to be heard.

[raal]

Originally Posted by cmj2430

Are 1/2" heads worth the $$ and effort to find?

a search will reveal many points of view regarding 1/2", 1/4", 15IPS and 30IPS. as to effort finding 1/2" heads, just call ATR Services and/or JRF Magnetics. very little effort. as to the bucks, you be the judge.