Neumann U67 or U87, whats the dif?

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Baz

+1
I think that those old Carpenter tracks are some of the best representations of both a great female vocalist, and great recording. I just love everything about how they captured her. If I was to accomplish anywhere near those results, I'd be pretty pleased with myself.

I wouldn't call her voice dark, just natural.Love it. thumbsup

+1.

Personally I like to hear the sound of a SINGER, and not the sound of a microphone (or preamp/compressor/etc) on a recording. There are so many tracks where the mic kinda takes over - even with a great voice/performance - and unless it's done as an effect, I generally don't like it.

Karen Carpenter seems to be a great example where you hear the singer in all her amazing glory without the mic enhancing the performance in a 'modern production' kinda way i.e making it darker/more tube-like/distorted/etc.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by skybluerental

i just A/B'd it with "Madman Across the Water" and i would take the Elton/Trident vocal sound over the Carpenters vocal sound on "we've only just begun" any day................

have you ever checked out that record?

Checked it out!? Well most of us familiar with Karen Carpenter are familiar with most music from that era, especially the hits

Madman is probably my favourite Elton album, so ya, I'm very familiar with it and agree it's a great indicator and reference to stellar 70's vocals. But why are we comparing KC to Elton? Aside from the obvious reason of them being the opposite sex, the songs and production approaches are 180º of each other.

For me at least, Elton's great vocals (and vocal sound) doesn't even come close to lessening or detracting from KC's. They're both fantastic!

We've only Just Begun is a fine song and Close To You is another to check out if you're not that familiar with her.

[skybluerental]

"close to you" does have a nice vocal sound.
dryer and more in your face than the other stuff i listened to and a bit brighter as well.
nice, classy, transparent production for sure.

as far as elton vs KC, i wasnt comparing them, i was just pointing out a vocal sound contemporary to KC that i think sounds great that was recorded with a U67. i can think of hundreds more vocals i love that were recorded with a U67, but cant for the life of me think of one great vocal sound which i know was a U87, although i am sure there are many i would admire.

every time i have used a U87 it has sounded cold and hard compared to a U67.

i would also add that in my opinion a U87 cannot touch a U67 on acoustic gts or overheads.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by skybluerental

i hear that klaus really works magic.

"we've only just begun" is the song i just checked out.
i would say the vocals are a bit on the dark side compared to what i hear in production these days and also compared to what the new U87's sound like to my memory............

i mean, compare that to a modern recording and the vocal certainly seems darker to me.............. again, the plate is playing a big role in that.

i just A/B'd it with "Madman Across the Water" and i would take the Elton/Trident vocal sound over the Carpenters vocal sound on "we've only just begun" any day................

have you ever checked out that record?

I know it well. But that's like comparing a Les Paul to a Strat....I'm not sure how you can even mention them in the same sentence. Two different worlds...one thing for certain, if you felt Karen's voice was "dark" on the 87 you REALLY would have felt it was dark on a 67

TH

[Baz]

Originally Posted by skybluerental

as far as elton vs KC, i wasnt comparing them, i was just pointing out a vocal sound contemporary to KC that i think sounds great that was recorded with a U67. i can think of hundreds more vocals i love that were recorded with a U67, but cant for the life of me think of one great vocal sound which i know was a U87, although i am sure there are many i would admire.

Ah, pardon me then. I had no idea Elton sang into a U67 on that track. I thought most of his early stuff was U47's and even an MD441 at times.

[Philip S Bova]

Originally Posted by skybluerental

Elton John "madman across the water"
the vocal sound on that record is simply astounding.
one of the best i have ever heard.
U 67.

Sad thing is that if you put him in front of a U67 now using the same chain as madman, you wouldn't even recognize the voice.

[Philip S Bova]

Regarding Karen's voice, you guys should know that the most available Carepenters tracks (most recent CDs or Itunes) consist of butchered remixes done under the supervision of brother Richard, who seems to not be able to resist getting his hands on to the multi tracks every few years to "update" the mixes. The reverb of the original mixes is A&M studios echo chambers usually in mono like the on the early Joni Mitchell records. These mixes (original LP's) sound leagues better. I've heard ugly things like triggered kick drums and DX7 on the remixes.

[lynyrd]

It is a crying shame when people do that.

Originally Posted by Philip S Bova

Regarding Karen's voice, you guys should know that the most available Carepenters tracks (most recent CDs or Itunes) consist of butchered remixes done under the supervision of brother Richard, who seems to not be able to resist getting his hands on to the multi tracks every few years to "update" the mixes. The reverb of the original mixes is A&M studios echo chambers usually in mono like the on the early Joni Mitchell records. These mixes (original LP's) sound leagues better. I've heard ugly things like triggered kick drums and DX7 on the remixes.

[skybluerental]

Originally Posted by Philip S Bova

Sad thing is that if you put him in front of a U67 now using the same chain as madman, you wouldn't even recognize the voice.

SO TRUE!

i saw video of him singing, "where to now st. peter" a few years ago and it sounded like a totally different human being than the guy on the record 40 years ago.
made me sad.

did you get your U67 yet philip?
: )

[skybluerental]

Originally Posted by Baz

Ah, pardon me then. I had no idea Elton sang into a U67 on that track. I thought most of his early stuff was U47's and even an MD441 at times.

"Elton John," "Tumbleweed Connection," and "Madman" were all done at Trident. at that time, i am almost certain that engineer Robin Cable was recording vocals with a U67.
i know for sure that "Honkey Chateau" was a U67 because i read a post on Gs where ken scott chimed in about the vocal chain used on that record.

U67 - MCI console pre - LA 3A.

butter.

[skybluerental]

Originally Posted by oceantracks

I know it well. But that's like comparing a Les Paul to a Strat....I'm not sure how you can even mention them in the same sentence. Two different worlds...one thing for certain, if you felt Karen's voice was "dark" on the 87 you REALLY would have felt it was dark on a 67

TH

i agree that it is not an ideal comparison.
the reason i mention them is that they are from the same time period, one uses an 87 and the other a 67.
you really like KC's vocal sound while i really like elton's.
i figure each is a good example of how great those mics can sound.
joni is a good comparison. i wonder what she used back in the day???

yeah, the 67 is definitely darker, which i tend to like, especially when tracking to digital these days.

[kiopo]

The U87 is still a very good microphone. I've A/Bed it with several vocalists and it often comes out the winner, vs other Neumanns, Geffell, AKG, you name it. It has the brightness to work well with voices that tend to be low-mid heavy, but it doesn't fall into the $200 super bright & throwaway chinese models.

Bear in mind that the preamp you use with the U87 makes a big difference, so it may or may not work as well.

[vernier]

[Chris Lago]

These songs are ZZZzzzzz you wouldn't catch me dead listening to them. I really hate the Beatles or anything related to them.

But this! Jay-z uses a u87.

[skybluerental]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

These songs are ZZZzzzzz you wouldn't catch me dead listening to them. I really hate the Beatles or anything related to them.

But this! Jay-z uses a u87.

wow.
you must really hate all pop music then because almost all of it is related to the beatles one way or another....................

jay Z.
it is very likely you wont be able to find one of his records anywhere in 30 years.

sounds like somebody needs a history lesson.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

These songs are ZZZzzzzz you wouldn't catch me dead listening to them. I really hate the Beatles or anything related to them.

But this! Jay-z uses a u87.

Cool! Jay-Z! Neato! Be singing his hits 50 years from now!

TH

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

These songs are ZZZzzzzz you wouldn't catch me dead listening to them. I really hate the Beatles or anything related to them.

But this! Jay-z uses a u87.

I don't think the music, or style of the songs had anything to do with the comments made by most of us [until we heard from you, in the peanut gallery, Chris ]

I was simply commenting on the tonality, which if you want to drag "current starz" into comparisons, simply blows all this highly compressed, highly pan fried sizzle chest vocals away, IMHO .

[skybluerental]

i have to say, this jay z track sounds utterly terrible.
i usually dont pass such harsh judgment on songs, but this is some of the worst production i have heard in a while.

how much auto tune can they possibly use on alicia keys?
i mean, seriously, who cares what mic you use when that much auto tune is applied. it doesnt even sound like a human being..........

jay z is doing his typical boastful, look how great my life is, tired old shtick.
arent people over this stuff yet? i mean, does this guy ever have anything remotely original or interesting to say??

this production will sound more dated than yamaha DX 7's and gated reverb on snare drums from the 80's in 10 years.

gross.