Eq distorted guitars. Please help!?
Wakena2003
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#1
15th July 2006
Old 15th July 2006
  #1
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Eq distorted guitars. Please help!?

Hi! I ususally have a problem with distorted guitars on the mix. I tried to record only with:

- a sm57 (0º) + API 512c
- sm57 (45º) + Api 512c
- sm57(45º) and Rode k2 (omni) + 2 x API512c
- sm57(45º) , T.Bone RB500 (ribbon) ("8" pattern between the top speakers of a 4x12 cabinet) and ROde k2 (omni) + API preamps and Tascam preamps.
-sm57(45º) and Tbone RB500 (ribbon) (0º closer to bottom speaker)

I use Logic 7.1 , I have no hardware EQs, Compressors , or dinamics. Logic dinamics plugins are a ****ing shit on distorted guitars. The problem is:
- If the sound is good alone, in the mix sound as if guitars were covered with a thick blanket. No Mid range.
- If I try to eq with more Mid range , guitars sound very bad.

What can I do? Is a question on mastering matters? I tried Mesa Boogie amps, Engl, Marshall with GIbson, Jackson, ESP, etc...

Any advice?
gem
#2
15th July 2006
Old 15th July 2006
  #2
gem
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try phasetone by tritonedigital.
helps me with guitars in the mix.
#3
15th July 2006
Old 15th July 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakena2003
- If the sound is good alone, in the mix sound as if guitars were covered with a thick blanket. No Mid range.
You are having a phase issue with other tracks that comprise your recording. Some other sound is influencing the sound of the guitars.

Build your mix slowly [one sound at a time] and try to determine which other sounds are causing harm to your guitar sound.

If the guitar is the lead instrument in your recording then bring the other sounds up around the guitar sound and tailor those sounds to work well with the guitar.

If you're using all of the guitar tracks you outlined in your post [some at 0', some at 45'... some with multiple mics, etc.] bring up one or two of those tracks, determine which is going to be the "anchor" of the sound, then either figure out how to process the other tracks so they do no harm or leave them out all together.

Unless it's a solo guitar record the guitar sound in solo is irrelevant... a song is more than the sum of it's tracks, figure out how to get all the sounds that comprise your song to work and play well with each other and you're on your way to a musically pleasing presentation.

Best of luck with it.
#4
15th July 2006
Old 15th July 2006
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Try using a reaaaally good guitar with reaaally good pick-ups on a reaaally good amp played by a reaally good artist. Put a sm 57 at 1 inch (2.54cm) in front of the grill at 0°. Play the lines double or triple and you'll have a killer sound. No eq needed except for a little highpass at 95hz. Always works and only depends on the guitarsound itself.
#5
15th July 2006
Old 15th July 2006
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For good guitar sound I start with a Les Paul. I will use a Modified Marshall by Mike Moron or a Bogner Ecstasy. Prefer to split to 2 or three amps; maybe Bogner/Marshall/Mesa.
All cabs are 25-watt greenbacks or 30-watt speakers. If split three; one 57 on all three in center of dust cover right up on grill (all have to be at same exact distance). That is 6 tracks of guitars when doubled. All three mics are panned to one side hard and the doubles are panned to the other side hard. If only using one cab, I prefer double to be at least a different guitar but a different amp is better. You get more width. If one cab two 57's one straight aimed at edge of inside dust cover and the 45 degree angled at same spot 4 inches from grill cloth. Angled is the beef and straight is the bite. I also like a 57 and Royer 121 about 4 to 6 inches from grill exactly same distance from speaker aimed at center. Royer at a 45 degree angle pointed down. Royer is for beef and 57 for bite.

I use API over Neve because they poke a little more, but Neves work great too. Sometimes I will add a little 110hz and a little 3.2k if tracking with Neves, but flat is mostly preferred. In mixing I will HP at 95hz sometimes add 3k to 5k. Love Pultecs for guitars, I use the 20k attenuation to cut the upper frequencies for a cremier sound Boost the 100 and boost 3 to 5k. The old Furman Eq's work great also. Very rarely I might notch out a little 300 to 360 Hz.

That is it, I hope this helps. None of this works if guitar sucks. Don't use 75watt speakers!!!!

www.bluethumbproductions.com
#6
16th July 2006
Old 16th July 2006
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Quote:
If the sound is good alone, in the mix sound as if guitars were covered with a thick blanket. No Mid range.
Like Fletcher said, build the tracks around the guitars. If you like them alone then I'd say your EQ and phase issues are in the other tracks.

Bring the instruments in around what you like the most (I'm assuming the sound of the guitars) and EQ to leave space for those mids you hear in the guitars soloed.

Try flipping the phase on each track as you bring them in also before going crazy with EQ.
#7
16th July 2006
Old 16th July 2006
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Definately phase issues are going on. Find the tracks that work/sound best. Mute or turn down ones that aren't adding anything cool. Zoom in close and try time aligning the tracks, flip phase, nudge the tracks a few samples or one sample at a time each way and you'll hear the top end open up or the tone begin to sound better when you find a good spot. you'll hear the bottom drop out if the polarity (180 degree phase flip, not time aignment) is wrong. When dealing with phasey tracks, all eq you do while soloing each track is completely null and void, especially at high frequencies. You can either eq the subgroup of mics or each one if so long as you have the blend of mics estimated. Also, instead of aligning room mics, try delaying them further until there's a slap that adds to the size or the guitars. It can sound cool sometimes and can also help reduce comb filtering. The 0-10 ms range is the comb filter danger zone. Sometimes phase can be used as eq too but until you get a grasp on what it does, simplify stuff as much as possible.
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