Best Harware Reverb Unit??

[jdjustice]

I am considering investing in a hardware reverb: are they still a cut above plug-ins?? The units I am looking at are the TC Electronic Reverb 4000 or the M3000; other than the System 6000, are there others I should consider? I don't need a surround unit, just stereo.

J.D.

[edvdr76]

I highly recommend the Lexicon 300. It has the sweetest sounding reverbs that just melt into your mixes. It's that signature Lexicon sound. The price isnt too bad either. You will probably pay around $1200-$1500 dollars for it. I bought mine a few years ago and paid $3000 for mine. thumbsup

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by edvdr76

I highly recommend the Lexicon 300. It has the sweetest sounding reverbs that just melt into your mixes. It's that signature Lexicon sound. The price isnt too bad either. You will probably pay around $1200-$1500 dollars for it. I bought mine a few years ago and paid $3000 for mine. thumbsup

Yes the hardware kills the plugs for the long stuff.

The 300 is a great verb.

If you want to buy something new, the PCM 91 rocks.

Lex is the king of halls and long reverbs.

TC is great for the short stuff, and the FX stuff.

Long live the King.

TH

[SRS]

I had a PCM91 for quite a while and sold it and now have a TC Electronic Reverb 4000. So, I guess I have some first hand knowledge on this one. I liked the Lex a lot. It did all I could want in a verb unit. It was a little complex when it came to menus and such. You have to work with it for a while to get the hang of it, and a check into the manual often is very necessary. The 4000 on the other hand is MUCH easier to use and sounds (I feel) equally as well. The on-screen interface is the absolute best thing since sliced bread. When I make tweaks, it is all on the computer interface that is an included software item, through USB. Nice touch for sure. I rarely lay a hand on the 4000 itself.

I changed from the Lex to the 4000 due to being able to use the 4000 at 96K s/pdif. The Lex PCM91 does not do 96k through the s/pdif. That way I stay digital with the verb through and through.

Good luck. You won't go wrong with either one.

[raal]

info on a similar thread http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=77676

[#19]

I believe that the finest hardware reverb ever made is the Sony S-777. They are not being made anymore but pop up on Ebay. The tc M4000 is fabulous, much better than the M3000. If you really want to save cash the algo's in the the tc M1 are very good for the $$. At the high end M6000 and Lex 960 are great.

[CorkyTart]

I had a TC 3000 and it was great but I dumped it to get an Eventide H8000FW which is also great. I'm not going to say one or the other is better, I honestly like them both and you will not be sorry with a 3000 which you can get for about $800 on egay or the 8k for about $5k.

Irrespective of what you get, it is going to beat the piss out of whatever plugs you use. The hardware units I listed are both huge and lush and every other adjective you will hear to describe them. I am not kidding when I say my wife even noticed a difference in mixes done with plugs and ones vs the one with hardware and she doesnt know a damn thing about gear and recording.

The way I look at it is a 23meg program cant compete with a 23lb box or circuits etc

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by #19

I believe that the finest hardware reverb ever made is the Sony S-777. They are not being made anymore but pop up on Ebay. The tc M4000 is fabulous, much better than the M3000. If you really want to save cash the algo's in the the tc M1 are very good for the $$. At the high end M6000 and Lex 960 are great.

I'm interested to hear more about the Sony S-777. I looked it up and it looks interesting and is rather pricey.

Does anybody have a clue what reverb was used on Stevie's vocals for dreams, (Fleetwood Mac) they sound sooo nice!

bcgood

[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by bcgood

I'm interested to hear more about the Sony S-777. I looked it up and it looks interesting and is rather pricey.

The Sony S-777 was the very first hardware convolution reverb; it sold for around $12,000.00 USD when it was introduced. Bob Katz has one and mentioned that he uses it still occasionally. No doubt it is a great sounding device (I am saying this from reputation only; I haven't used one). I don't know if they are still in production.

J.D.

[AmbientSound]

I would have to say that I am a Lexicon lover. We have the 300, PCM91 & the 960. All great revebs. Can't go wrong with a Lex.

[mwagener]

You might want to check out the Kurzweil KSP-8 as well, tons of great sounding verbs and FX. You could probably find one around $2K

[Legacy]

The Sony 777 is an amazing sounding reverb unit. It is the best convolution I've heard. It is also clunky and limited in some ways. It can only do 2FS as mono in / stereo out. It takes a really long time to change settings like sample rate or to change CD-Roms to access another verb preset. It has an *incredibly* noisy CD reader that is only an issue during start-up or changing of settings.

It excells at supremely natural sounding spaces but doesn't have samples of other digital reverbs that I am aware of.

I saw a few 777s blown out for $3500. a while back. I believe that the CDs are still expensive though (they were $750. each when it was new!!) and each one holds only a handful of different spaces (with many variants of each space)

Best,
Silas

[ISedlacek]

I made few enquiries at Lexicon and apart from other things they told me that PCM91 and M300 have entirely identical reverb algorhitms. The difference is LARC and effects

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by mwagener

You might want to check out the Kurzweil KSP-8 as well, tons of great sounding verbs and FX. You could probably find one around $2K

Agreed..
I just got one [KSP-8 and KSP-R remote]right here of gearslutz for $2200.00 a couple weeks agothumbsup
I just got all my old hardware stuff out of storage[Lex's,Yammie,Old springs]
digging it..
Still using the convo's for some stuff[plates,etc]

[gwailoh]

TCE is porting its algorithms from hardware to plugins. VSS3, NonLin2 and others are available now, with the VSS4 and Reverb4 algorithms on the way. It's cheaper to buy a Reverb 4000 which has them all; but the plugs would be good for easy integration and convenience.

[gwailoh]

Do any of you Lexican experts know whether Lex plans a 96k version of the PCM91? Or a future 96k hardware platform?

Is there going to be a replacement for the Lexiverb?

Will there be ports from hardware to plugins, as TCE is doing?

Thanks!

[cowudders]

Originally Posted by gwailoh

TCE is porting its algorithms from hardware to plugins. VSS3, NonLin2 and others are available now, with the VSS4 and Reverb4 algorithms on the way.

Is this just your thinking or do you really KNOW about the next PoCo releases?

[gwailoh]

Originally Posted by cowudders

Is this just your thinking or do you really KNOW about the next PoCo releases?

I have no idea what PoCo is.

[GYang]

Originally Posted by gwailoh

I have no idea what PoCo is.

Uff...
Po=wer
Co=re

Before TC develops something new for flagship reverbs, Rev 4 and VSS4 algos would be out of reach.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by gwailoh

Do any of you Lexican experts know whether Lex plans a 96k version of the PCM91? Or a future 96k hardware platform?

I also wonder whether there is some software/MIDI possibility of controlling PCM-91 from within the computer. System of controls on PCM-91 is a true headache.

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Agreed..
I just got one [KSP-8 and KSP-R remote]right here of gearslutz for $2200.00 a couple weeks agothumbsup
I just got all my old hardware stuff out of storage[Lex's,Yammie,Old springs]
digging it..
Still using the convo's for some stuff[plates,etc]

I've had a KSP 8 for years now, its a killer, and you get more engines and I/O, its like
having 4 seperate stereo verbs or 8 mono fx or any combination

[stevep]

jdjustice .I am considering investing in a hardware reverb:

You might like the Lexicon PCM 70, easy to use and great sounds


steve

[84K]

PCM 60 for about $300.

[rwhitney]

My favorite digital reverb for depth is the Lexicon 960. I'm disappointed they haven't made a multi-effects card for it.

[vernier]

Best Hardware Reverb? ..probably plate or one of the BX's.

[mixerguy]

best hardware reverbs?

The (real) chambers at Capitol Studios in Hollywood, CA

[Mark Warren]

Originally Posted by mwagener

You might want to check out the Kurzweil KSP-8 as well, tons of great sounding verbs and FX. You could probably find one around $2K

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Agreed..
I just got one [KSP-8 and KSP-R remote]right here of gearslutz for $2200.00 a couple weeks agothumbsup
I just got all my old hardware stuff out of storage[Lex's,Yammie,Old springs]
digging it..
Still using the convo's for some stuff[plates,etc]

One of the main reasons for going to outboard reverb IMO besides the fact that it could sound good or better than plugin, is to take some of the load off the computer, especially when running lots of plugins during high sample rate sessions, and maintaining the digital integrity at that sample rate by going in and out digitally to the hardware box, not to mention avoiding any latency issues.

So when you're at 88.2K or 96K and you're running out of headroom and you ship reverbs off to the box, you won't be able to ship them off to the KSP-8 as it does not do anything higher than 48K.

Now if you happen to be running PT HD 192 i/o you may be able to get by with a sample rate conversion work around, but if you're running any other piece of i/o hardware forget about using the KSP-8 if you're tracking at a high sample rate. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is why I did not get this box.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Mark Warren

One of the main reasons for going to outboard reverb IMO besides the fact that it could sound good or better than plugin, is to take some of the load off the computer, especially when running lots of plugins during high sample rate sessions, and maintaining the digital integrity at that sample rate by going in and out digitally to the hardware box, not to mention avoiding any latency issues.

So when you're at 88.2K or 96K and you're running out of headroom and you ship reverbs off to the box, you won't be able to ship them off to the KSP-8 as it does not do anything higher than 48K.

Now if you happen to be running PT HD 192 i/o you may be able to get by with a
sample rate conversion work around, but if you're running any other piece of i/o

hardware forget about using the KSP-8 if you're tracking at a high sample rate. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is why I did not get this box.

When i'm ITB, it's usually all plug verbs..i have plenty of Accel DSP.
and if i do insert.. I don't get stressed about using the PT analog I/O for a verb.sounds fine for rock n roll.

when i'm mixing OTB, it's just the old fashioned way..
..it's just on an aux send /return on a console, so conversion ain't an issue with any of my older hardware boxes either.

[Mark Warren]

That's true I suppose, that you could simply use it in analog and it probably just as good, at least for reverbs. When I looks at mid to high end effects boxes that do many effects though, I'm usually looking for the option at least of digital i/o at a higher sample rate. They're beginning to come into the arena now, I suspect it won't be long before the KSP-8 gets an upgrade.