What SACD player would you recommend?

[popmann]

Honestly, when it was viable, I compared a bunch...and the difference was almost none.

Which is one of the reasons it was a better format. A $150 Sony sounded as good at a $700 Pioneer Elite. Put a CD in those two machines, and it was night and day.

But, seriously...why now? It's almost impossible to get SACDs anymore.

[Masaaki]

Just for playback,
Amazon.com: Pioneer DV-610AV-K Black Multi Region Code Zone Free DVD Player with HDMI 1080p Output. Play all region 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 PAL or NTSC DVDs.: Electronics

[captainj]

I'd go with a Sony in that price range. Even some of the cheap older ones (but not the ones that play DVD as well) sound great. The only current model Sony however is the SCDXA5400ES which is out of your price range but maybe you can buy new old stock or used somewhere? I got a new Sony 2000ES SACD player for cheap a few years ago and it sounds awesome. I've heard good things about the Marantz players too but haven't heard them personally.
Note: SACD players are definitely not all the same - some even convert DSD to PCM, thereby eliminating any of the touted benefits of DSD. I briefly owned a Yamaha SACD player that sounded terrible. I also owned a Denon which sounded decent but not as nice as any of the the Sony players I've tried (I've had several SACD players at one time or another).
Also note: there has been a bit of a resurgence for the SACD format but only as niche market - many great albums released on SACD in the past few years that sound fantastic, unfortunately also very expensive.

[Tony_Montana]

Oppo 103

For a little more cash it's a no brainer

[Ephi82]

As suggested by previous poster, look at Oppo. I am not familier with the model cited but you can get a combination Blu ray/upscaling dvd/sacd and dvd audio player for around $500 US.

[di giorgio]

Originally Posted by popmann

Put a CD in those two machines, and it was night and day.

But, seriously...why now? It's almost impossible to get SACDs anymore.

You mean compared to the SACD equivalent, not that they can't reproduce a CD adequately. Don't tell me that I need a separate player for CDs.

I mainly listen to vinyl but if I can't find something on vinyl or it's too expensive I then go for SACDs and then for CDs or lossless files.
Do you think they will become obsolete? What would replace them? DVD-A are even harder to come by..

Originally Posted by captainj

Note: SACD players are definitely not all the same - some even convert DSD to PCM, thereby eliminating any of the touted benefits of DSD.

Could you post the make/models you know that do that.


Thanks for the suggestions I'll look into the Oppo even though it does a lot more than what I need.

[elambo]

FWIW the Oppo is practically an industry standard in the audiophile/videophile circles. But as you said much more than what you'd asked for.

I'd agree that you won't need a super high end SACD player. Get one from a solid, reputable name and call it a day.

[Ephi82]

I just looked on ebay and found this:

NICE Pioneer DV-563A CD/MP3/DVD/SACD Super Audio CD & DVD Player w/ Remote WORKS 012562640891 | eBay



I have this unit (Pioneer DV-563A) and as you can see on Ebay, someone is selling one for $39 ! I saw others for $199 or so. (Too much IMO)

IMO, hi resolution audio players are a dime a dozen today because of the buying public's preference for MP3's over SACD/DVD Audio because 1) a desire for portability/convenience 2) a dramatic reduction in a desire for higher fidelity sound. I can appreciate #1, but am baffled by #2? Why doesn't anyone care anymore?

By the way, the Pioneer unit plays SACD/DVD Audio and DVD Videos. It sounds great! I used it for about six years as my main player, but upgraded to the OPPO unit about a year ago for the Blu ray/3D capability.

For those of you who have lots of DVD concerts and movies, and you have a HD display, the OPPO does a fantastic job of upscaling the old DVDs to close to HD playback. Not an overstatement.

[di giorgio]

Originally Posted by Ephi82

For those of you who have lots of DVD concerts and movies, and you have a HD display, the OPPO does a fantastic job of upscaling the old DVDs to close to HD playback. Not an overstatement.

Really?! I thought upscaling was a load of baloney!


Reading through Oppo's features and specifications:

SACD - The BDP-103EU plays Super Audio CD (SACD) and supports both stereo and multi-channel high resolution audio programs. Users can select whether to output the DSD (Direct Stream Digital) signal in its native format or convert it into PCM.

Ok so it lets you chose between DSD and PCM. That's fine, but:

Coaxial/Optical Audio: up to 2ch/192kHz PCM, Dolby Digital, DTS.
HDMI Audio: up to 7.1ch/192kHz PCM, up to 5.1ch DSD, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, DTS-HD High Resolution and DTS-HD Master Audio.

So DSD can only be outputted through an HDMI cable. Does anyone know if this is the case for all/most SACD players? Surely not, as some only have a Coaxial/Optical Output.

That is a problem for me as my DSP has only an S/PDIF (over Coaxial) and XLR inputs.
So no Oppo I guess. Shame I was beginning to like it.

[elambo]

Upscaling works and the better algorithms work very well. You might be surprised by what it can do with SD content.

[popmann]

...do you understand that SPDIF is a PCM technology?

DSD cannot, as far as I know be carried over OTHER PCM technologies--like HDMI or ADAT or AES.

You're missing the point. there is ZERO need for digital transfer. And if you've bought some new fangled surround sound processing, non discrete amp, you did not have high fidelity audio in mind when you bought it. You don't plug your analog phonograph into a PCM encoder, process it and spit it back out do you? You don't want to do that with DSD, either.

Like I said...$150 (new ten years ago) player's DSD converters were as good as the Pioneer above, which is either the one I bought or a descendant of the same line. For PCM, you HAVE to buy expensive converters to sound better. It's one of the reasons DSD was a better way to go, IMO. We can't all afford $600 optical players for audio playback. If it gets better fidelity into EVERYONE's hands, it's better tech for end user delivery.

[di giorgio]

well now yes. after reading more on S/PDIF and digital stuff I found out that a DSD signal cannot be carried over Coaxial/Optical. Why is there zero need for digital transfer? It's a digital medium no? I think it's ironic. Most players won't output anything through the S/PDIF and the good ones will convert the signal to PCM. And you're wrong DSD can be carried over HDMI.

I assure you I didn't buy anything new fangled. My amp is very discrete indeed

[matyas]

Another vote for Oppo. I have an older (non-Blu Ray) model and I love it. I still buy SACDs whenever possible and someday will upgrade to an Oppo SACD/Blu-Ray player.
It breaks my heart that SACD never caught on with the public. It's a great format, especially for classical.

[matyas]

Originally Posted by di giorgio

So DSD can only be outputted through an HDMI cable. Does anyone know if this is the case for all/most SACD players? Surely not, as some only have a Coaxial/Optical Output.

That is a problem for me as my DSP has only an S/PDIF (over Coaxial) and XLR inputs.
So no Oppo I guess. Shame I was beginning to like it.

That's pretty standard for SACD players. You don't want to do DSP on a DSD signal anyway (and, in fact, you couldn't if you wanted to, because DSD is a 1-bit signal.) Oppo's DACs are pretty good, so I wouldn't worry about just going analog. Or else, if you want to be less purist about it, you could do the internal down-sampling from DSD to multi-bit hi-res PCM. I'm sure there are SACD players out there with analog XLR outputs, but they are probably very expensive.

[Tony_Montana]

Some Music Studios ( and sony ) seams to prefer dsd format because of better ADC and DaC conversions.

Whatever player you choose , you must not do any dsd to PCM conversion.

You can use a sacd player and connect it to a power amp or stereo receiver via analog or to a multichannel avr that supports dsd via hdmi.

[di giorgio]

Thanks for the info.
this Oppo player has XLR Balanced out but it's £900+ That's too much.
If I go for the 'simpler' Oppo 93 or 103 (now I will ask something silly, don't stone me if it's sacrilege or something) and connect its RCA stereo out to the XLR inputs with an appropriate cable, will that result in better sound quality than with the S/PDIF, and is it ok to do?

[WTMNMF]

Originally Posted by di giorgio

Thanks for the info.
this Oppo player has XLR Balanced out but it's £900+ That's too much.
If I go for the 'simpler' Oppo 93 or 103 (now I will ask something silly, don't stone me if it's sacrilege or something) and connect its RCA stereo out to the XLR inputs with an appropriate cable, will that result in better sound quality than with the S/PDIF, and is it ok to do?

It will be fine.

The reason for no digital out has nothing to do with a lack of desire for it, and everything to do with music labels wanting to protect their product. An absurd notion in a world where crushing everything into noise is the standard of production, and mp3 is the most popular distribution format. No consumer in that market could ever tell the difference between a straight digital copy of an SACD and a second generation copy from analog outputs. In fact, I don't believe that anyone could tell which is which under any circumstances, and I'd be hard pressed to believe that anyone could even tell that they were different at all.

Read the OPPO manual to get a good picture of the absurdity of the copy protection schemes and how the vary by format. You cannot play all of the supported formats through a single output format of your choosing. Great you say - I'll just hook 'em all up and be covered for everything. Well, the problem there is that preamp/receivers have a nasty habit of automatically selecting the 'best' input, which is usually chosen as the digital one, but when you want to hear an SACD you get nothing! That means physically disconnecting the digital feed so that it is not detected, in which case the preamp/receiver falls back to the 'inferior' analog input. This and many other joys await you if you are crazy enough to think that you should be able to reproduce the supported formats through the interface technology of your choice!

In response to those who ask 'why bother?', I would say that if you find half a dozen titles that you enjoy in that format, then it's worth it. If you're a classical fan then you will find much more than that, and you will find new titles still being produced (last time I checked). For me it's the Bob Clearmountain/Bryan Ferry multi-channel stuff that makes it worthwhile. There's a beautiful Yo-Yo Ma SACD that I enjoy as well.

[matyas]

Originally Posted by WTMNMF

. Well, the problem there is that preamp/receivers have a nasty habit of automatically selecting the 'best' input, which is usually chosen as the digital one, but when you want to hear an SACD you get nothing!

It's true. That's why I bought an analog-only integrated amp. It meant going two-channel only, which for some people negates the point of SACD, but I actually really enjoy stereo DSD (and Redbook CD, for that matter) through a good system. At the budget I had, it was either good stereo or mediocre surround. The choice was pretty easy.

[Mighty_Zoltan]

Originally Posted by WTMNMF

It will be fine.
In response to those who ask 'why bother?', I would say that if you find half a dozen titles that you enjoy in that format, then it's worth it.

Yeah, totally worth it, they sound amazing (I mainly buy vinyl and have a really nice Thorens turntable and they sound pretty much a good through my Marantz SACD player) and they aren't THAT hard to find, or that crazy expensive.

Virtually EVERY release on "Mobile Fidelity" and every release on "Analogue Productions" comes out on SACD and Vinyl.

I've been buying up SACD versions of a bunch of the classics that I have on Vinyl anyway so i don't have to completely wear them out.

Buying up a lot of the usual Suspects: Pet Sounds, What's Going On, Dark Side Of The Moon, Tommy, A Love Supreme, Big Stars first 2 albums, Bob Dylan's albums, The Stones, The Kinks, some classical, some Jazz...

There is actually a ton around and the prices are about equivalent to a nice Vinyl release or very often cheaper.

The only one I've bought that cost more than $30 was the recent Special Edition of "Wish You Were Here" by Pink Floyd. That was $35 for a deluxe version in a book with postcards. The rest have been between $5 and $25.

Dylan albums were all about $6 each for Blonde on Blonde, Freewheelin etc. Mobile Fidelity is right now remastering and
pressing up SACD's of all of the Bob Dylan and Mile Davis albums.

I have 2 SACD players (a Marantz and the Pioneer mentioned earlier), I like the Marantz more for sure. It's way sturdier too, but even the $120 Pioneer sounds surprisingly good.

[samwell7]

Sorry to come out of nowhere with this but it will most likely be worth waiting for the oppo 105, I believe it has a better feature set, like everyone was saying oppo is pretty well 'the' standard in the Hi-Fi community

Ed: sorry I didn't realise the op said under 500£, I believe the 105 is going to be around 1100 USD
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

[DSD_Mastering]

Originally Posted by di giorgio

well now yes. after reading more on S/PDIF and digital stuff I found out that a DSD signal cannot be carried over Coaxial/Optical.

yes, DSD can be carried over HDMI... also USB, FW, SDIF-2/3, ST and SC optical, MADI coax and now AES.