$385 mic cable (Requisite) Vs Canare starquad mic cable

[LeeYoo]

Originally Posted by Avast!

A long time ago I worked for a small audiophile-grade preamp maker in Oly Wa. Twice a year we'd show at CES (where our company would often earn 'best sound in show' for our demo rig). It was hi-fi, in the 80's, all analog etc.

The first time that I went along as a helper, we were lent a variety of accessories and stuff; a gorgeous turntable and Wheaton tonearm; a variety of phono cartridges to choose from; and notably, a fairly large selection of expensive line cables and speaker cables.

I was sort of appalled by the idea of having to (hah) 'listen to cables' to choose which to use. But DAMN but every single one sounded different, BY A LARGE AMOUNT, and the most expensive ones were probably the worst ($3k rca-to-rca 3 meter cables) and the best were some odd braided/no shield teflon covered ones about $700 per pair. We tried very generic ones as well. No two designs sounded alike at all.

Anyway, yes, cables sound different.

I doubt I've ever spent more than $4 a foot plus connectors for a studio cable though.

YMMV

And thats where I think you're wrong .

Cables DON't sound different. They are passive.

It's the characteristics of the cable (e.g. capacitance) that makes the connected gear sound different.

e.g. 2meters of quality thick turntable cable will sound the same as 1 meter of the thin stuff (if both have the same capacitance).
Some phone preamps had trimmers/switches to compensate for different cables/ cardriges.

And yes, there are good and bad cables. Purity (background noise), connectors, shielding, microphonics etc.
Studios should be using the good reliable stuff.
And the youtube poster should educate himself, and the ignorant musicians.
Leo..

[chrisdee]

I like tests but I think this is among the least accurate ways to setup a comparison test like this.
There are to many variations.

As said befor the most semi accurate way I can think of is recording a pre-recorded track though a monitor/speaker.
Thats the only way to get the exact same performance.

Personally I could not hear much difference from that clip. Maby it would be easer if you A/B'ed them
without the break. Also splitting up sections and A/B'ing them it might be easier to hear any difference.

That said, I too think the cable can make a noticable difference to the sound. Every part in the chain is important.
I make my own from Belden 9182 and to my ears they sound more neutral and open than the other cables Iv
bought or made.

[kowloon12]

Originally Posted by shawn sullivan

as far as a split goes, if you can come up with a way to split two mic cables without them effecting or cause loading effects on each other sonically then i would love to hear your solution to that problem, and will do another more scientific version ( which i'm sure someone will call fake) with double blindfold testing or whatever protocol is within reason.

I think you are right on this one, splitters are useful for testing multiple converters and so on because the idea is that every effect they have on signal affects every cable equally, but it's true (or close enough) only with matching cables..
a pair of matching microphones (maybe switched over in subsequent tests, as suggested somewhere else in this thread) is the best solution that comes to mind..

EDIT: or, like I just read, to record a prerecorder performance, or, for the sake of measurement only, a series of test signals...

[capri]

Power Balance - Performance Technology

[Hyder boy]

I find that wrapping my guitar cable in tin foil, allows me to get that extra crispy sound that really makes a difference. YRMV...

[Emwolb]

My issues would be using a ribbon mic and a preamp from the 1940s... Then to a sta level... Why the hell would you put the sta level in the test? Bad decision. The less crap inline the more accurate the difference would be.

I would have been WAY more interested to hear a condenser to a GML or other clean type preamp that has definition.

The choices of everything but the cable add to potential confusion.

Why not reamp a guitar so the performance is exactly the same? If the cable is that good, then it should be that good in any scenario.

[Bassmankr]

Probably the easiest way to get a repeatable studio source for testing mic cables is just feeding midi to a synth with an amp. Loop the midi and don't touch a thing . . . same thing played over and over with a rich source that has not gone thru any conversion process. Just swap the mic cables one at a time without moving the mic at all. I would not close mic the amp as to eliminate the variable of an accidental fractional movement of the mic during a cable change. As far as testing cables in the role of guitar cords, short of a robotic rig playing the same guitar the same way you would need a guy good enough to play the same stuff over and over with little if any variation. It can be done and we only have to look at the recent "Bass DI" thread and it's sucess. If the guitarist is using an acoustic guitar with pickups or an archtop guitar then they will have the acoustic feedback loop they need without headphones to ensure consistant playing WITHOUT monitering through the recording chain which could change their playing technique as they might adjust for even performances using the different guitar cords.

Obvoiusly most of the cable that gets sent in for this testing with no expectations of getting any of it back (the raw cable I'd send in for free) could be tested as both mic and instrument cable by just soldering the appropriate connectors to it (XLR for mic / 1/4" TS for instrument) and even with the unused conductor with the instument version of the cable, it would provide some useful variety of cables for the testing. Making as many as possible cables of the same length helps with apples to apples comparisons too.

Having a few local Gearslutz over to help with the testing will go a long way for an honest credible test and would greatly speed up the soldering process of attaching XLR's and then converting to 1/4" for the various cable that others send in.

It's doable with a bit of planning to both record files for further blind testing and at the same time do a blind listening test in the control room while a couple guys are swapping cords one at a time and documenting the order of each cord in the live room. Just tape some black plastic on the control room window (garbage bags). Those in the control room however will not hear one example after another in quick sucession though which may provide some interesting but probably not useful results in that they would be forming an opinion of just "was this example better or worse than the last one".

[Dot]

Cables do sound different. And price isn't going to necessarily determine which one is best in a given situation. As a comparison, we've often had 421's beat out 87's and other expensive condensers on vocal tracks. So, you could certainly end up choosing a less expensive cable if it contributes to getting the right sound.

Having a selection of cables around to play around with - and finding out for yourself - can yield different results, and can be used as tools for tweakage for the same reasons studios use various mics, pres, eqs, etc..

There are differences. And little differences can add up.

[SoSueMe]

Originally Posted by ~Zenshin Suru~

Please explain your qualifications for making statements like this all over gearslutz. Do you find it necessary to go around in real life telling everyone they are wrong and shouldn't speak unless they have rock solid scientific evidence to prove it? I don't know if you mean to come off this way, but you seem really hateful whenever someone types something or posts something they experienced and wants to share it with the community here.

It just makes people feel crappy and not want to share.. This is gearslutz, not science slutz. It's not your job to make sure that people are only allowed to post things that have null tests and perfect scientific conclusions. Some of us here are actually real live audio engineers who use our ears and make decisions and judgements and opinions based on what we hear and feel. And guess what, that is totally ok. There's no need to chime in about how unscientific everything is all the time.

To all posters who post way too often and always make the same sort of, "well this isn't scientific, or this doesn't prove true in a null test, or whatever,"

please stop.

seriously.




To Shawn, Thanks for sharing and posting. Stuff like this is what still keeps me rifling through GS now and again.

You're probably right. I've got better things to do with my time. Later.

[Greg Curtis]

Why is the performer even wearing headphones? This created one of the many flaws in this test.


Sent via iPhone/Tapasquawk

[byerh]

So my buddy came over with a $20.00 20' hosa guitar cable exactly like the one I have. He also brought $400.00 cash. He bought my cheap hosa cable for $400.00 and I bought his for $400.00. They defiantly sound better now that we payed more, and I play with an even bigger smile. I never played through a $400.00 guitar cable before - it really does make a difference! GRIN

[LeeYoo]

Originally Posted by byerh

So my buddy came over with a 20' hosa guitar cable exactly like the one I have. He also brought $400.00 cash. He bought my hosa cable for $400.00 and I bought his for $400.00. They defiantly sound better now and I play with an even bigger smile. I never played through a $400.00 guitar cable before - it really does make a difference!

Better as in brighter, more high frequencies?
Try a very short $10.00 cable.
(And tell him it's a $600.00 cable)
It will sound even "better".
Now join the two $400.00 20' cables with a jack-jack joiner, or simply hold or tape the plugs together to make a 40' cable.
Now it sounds like a cheap $20.00 cable.

Guitars (pickups) are very sensitive to cable capacitance.
If you know your cable capacitance, you can predict your sound.
It is easy to measure the capacitance with a $25.00 digital multimeter (with capacitance measurement).
Leo..

[kongwee]

I was trained to know about Siltech/Crystal cable. Silver with gold intrusion, and wrap with telton or peak. You can make normal power cord with the thickness of handphone charger wire.

[frans]

Atlantic Quality Design, Inc., ZEROCAP(TM) Guitar Cable

[patrox247]

Originally Posted by SoSueMe

For this test to be even remotely scientifically valid, the file still needs to be "randomized" to twenty [20] separate samples (10 for each cable configuration). This is much easier using an ABX tool that does this for you, or it can be done by hand.

Do you have any scientific proof that humans can remain objective in this type of audible test? Please site the study. Ty.

[mynaemisjonas]

Worst thread ive ever read

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by patrox247

Do you have any scientific proof that humans can remain objective in this type of audible test? Please site the study. Ty.

The point of double-blind ABX testing isn't to prove "that humans can remain objective in this type of audible test" ...if anything it's to prove that humans can't not be subjective in this type of audible test.
But in truth, the purpose is to remove all the external biases so you isolate the (hopefully) audible differences to only one parameter. You wouldn't want to change the test instrument from a guitar to an accordion at the same time you swapped cables; likewise, you want to eliminate any and all similar variables, even if they don't seem as gross as substituting a guitar with an accordion.

And every peer-reviewed scientific study uses these methods. You'd have a hard time "siting" (sic) a study that didn't.

[Pianolando]

Originally Posted by mini logo

I think the way in which the guitar is strummed has more influence over the tone than pretty much every aspect of the recording chain let alone the cable...

This is so true.

[Scott003]

Originally Posted by Martin_LPF

Some people believe in Jesus, some Muhammad. It's ok.

I believe in Tesla.

+1 amen

[patrox247]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

The point of double-blind ABX testing isn't to prove "that humans can remain objective in this type of audible test" ...if anything it's to prove that humans can't not be subjective in this type of audible test.

I am sorry but I only speak English. "can't not be subjective" is not English grammer.

[phatbeatstudio]

Originally Posted by ZFire

Bottom line: If there is an actual difference in sound then there is an electrical difference between the cables.. there is no magic goodness in exotic/expensive cable materials.

What do you consider exotic.

Are you saying that the standard $19.00 cable sounds as good as a $70 Mogami cable.

If you are your so very wrong or you cannot hear the difference. Maybe your studio is not accurate enough to hear the difference.

I bought Mogami gold studio mic cables and yes there is a very noticeable difference. quieter clearer more natural and defined .
Well I not going to list every quality a better mic cable can improve
But if you dont here a difference between just a $70 Mogami and a stock $25 cable I feel for you because cables make big difference. Just upgrading all your cables can be a more drastic improvement than anything except maybe a high end converters or monitors.

Your missing a lot of good tone with cheap cables .
I knew there would be a difference but I honestly never thought it would have sounded that much better .
CHEAP CABLES SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats why there cheap

[Hyder boy]

Originally Posted by phatbeatstudio

What do you consider exotic.

Are you saying that the standard $19.00 cable sounds as good as a $70 Mogami cable.

If you are your so very wrong or you cannot hear the difference. Maybe your studio is not accurate enough to hear the difference.

I bought Mogami gold studio mic cables and yes there is a very noticeable difference. quieter clearer more natural and defined .
Well I not going to list every quality a better mic cable can improve
But if you dont here a difference between just a $70 Mogami and a stock $25 cable I feel for you because cables make big difference. Just upgrading all your cables can be a more drastic improvement than anything except maybe a high end converters or monitors.

Your missing a lot of good tone with cheap cables .
I knew there would be a difference but I honestly never thought it would have sounded that much better .
CHEAP CABLES SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats why there cheap

[Camera]

Originally Posted by Martin_LPF

Some people believe in Jesus, some Muhammad. It's ok.

I believe in Tesla.

So because it IS rocket science and therefore more expensive, being celibate makes a difference?

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by patrox247

I am sorry but I only speak English. "can't not be subjective" is not English grammer.

Incorrect.


But if you'd prefer to read that same sentence using good English grammar, it can be re-written as "humans are incapable of not being subjective in this type of audible test."

Make sense now?

[Greg Curtis]

Originally Posted by patrox247

I am sorry but I only speak English. "can't not be subjective" is not English grammer.

Care to point out why?

(It may be clumsy, but it makes perfect sense and violates no rules.)

[CompEq]

Originally Posted by Greg Curtis

(It may be clumsy, but it makes perfect sense and violates no rules.)

It violates two "rules". It's a double-negative and it splits the verb. I wouldn't call that proper English.

[Scott003]

Grammarslutz

[Sir Chris]

I switched to Mogami gold cause I could hear the difference between those and a POS Livewire/Hosa cable. If u can't, maybe your hearing got bad and u need to check it or u just have shitty/consumer grade gear, which would make sense then.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

[MadGuitrst]

I never believed in difference in sound but then someone posted samples and I could hear a difference.
However, I'd equate it to significantly less than the difference in, say, different guitar strings.

Bottom line for me: I like Canare Star Quad because they sound fine to me, are flexible, have nice colors choices, and are easy to work with.....and sensibly priced.

Having $400 cables makes no sense to me.
Maybe it does to someone else - I respect their decision, even if I don't agree.

I'm sure that people think I'm nuts about choice of pickups and strings (and I'm not fanatical).
Whatever works and to each their own.
If it affects your thought process, therefore your performance, than it matters, whether or not in translates to the final mix or end product, whether that be a CD or MP3 and regardless of whether or not anyone else can tell.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by shawn sullivan

so i'm advanced enough of a player to know the the difference in tone by differing performances alone, but not good enough to play a simple couple chord part fairly consistent to make a valid comparison between two cables?

Your skill as a guitar player is NOT the issue. Your bias as a human being is. The idea that a human being can "will" himself into perfect neutrality is cuckoo. Where is your blindfold?

I am smiling more on one cable than the other because it sounded better in the phones and made me feel more connected to the guitar. That's my response to the sound im hearing.

Or maybe your smiling is simply your response to the fact that you KNOW you are now playing the "expensive" cable! You admit you are 'digging' the sound while playing, and yet you still say you are being "fair" and "playing exactly the same"?

You have your thumb on the scale! You admit you are "responding". Responding changes what you are playing!

It is not for others to prove you ARE biased and that you bias is affecting your playing. If you are presenting a "test" to the public, it is up to you to prove that you are NOT biased.

IMO, two passes is a VERY shakey way to compare gear, but at least show that you cannot possibly be biased by wearing a blindfold and playing without knowing which cable is connected. And without listening to the results until both passes are done.

Originally Posted by Greg Curtis

Why is the performer even wearing headphones? This created one of the many flaws in this test.

Because if the performer was not wearing headphones, it would be too obvious when he 'smiled more' while using the "expensive" cable!