500 series preamps for Coles 4038?

[Brett 123]

The great rivers have a very useful impedance button for ribbon mics .

[nnajar]

Aea have a 500 series of the rpq....

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by nnajar

Aea have a 500 series of the rpq....

+1 This is a great choice. There are a lot of preamps that are quiet and high gain. Great River NV, Purple Audio, APA Juggernaut, Buzz Elixir, among others.

[pan60]

i like the A-Designs EM-BVLUE, API 512, AML 503 and ez1073, the Electrodyne 501, Forssell SMP-500, Maag PRE Q4, LaChapells 5583s, Triton Audio D2O and some others.

I tend to migrate to the IC or jfets for dynamic mics so for me I lean to pres like the Forssell. the Maag Pre Q4, Mint Julep, shinny box and others.

[Yanto]

I'm a really big fan of the JLM 99v with Coles 4038s. Big & open sounding with a variable impedance control which the ribbons love. Pair that with a JLM PEQ & you've got a great chain for almost all ribbon mics, but I especially love it on 4038s.

[Doc Mixwell]

on the AEA RPQ-500!!!!

[cheu78]

I've posted this somewhere else.. the Avedis MA5 with a 4038 is a match made in heaven.. thick, fullbodied, natural, punchy, huge.. Absolutely fantastic!!
I've tracked a reggae singer with a coles and an MA5 on the entire album, was just the right fit..
The other cool thing is that if you need a more open top end you just need to push the 28k button..

I hope this helps somehow,



Cheu

[Rockinrob]

Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell

on the AEA RPQ-500!!!!

+1

[CompEq]

Originally Posted by pan60

I tend to migrate to the IC or jfets for dynamic mics so for me I lean to pres like the Forssell. the Maag Pre Q4, Mint Julep, shinny box and others.

Pan, is the Mint Julep still being produced?

[sessionatstudiom]

Originally Posted by pan60

i like the A-Designs EM-BVLUE, API 512, AML 503 and ez1073, the Electrodyne 501, Forssell SMP-500, Maag PRE Q4, LaChapells 5583s, Triton Audio D2O and some others.

I tend to migrate to the IC or jfets for dynamic mics so for me I lean to pres like the Forssell. the Maag Pre Q4, Mint Julep, shinny box and others.

You beat me to it. The MAAG Audio Pre Q4 has plenty of gain for any ribbon mic. Plus it sounds really good.

Mike

[julian.david]

Hi dadodetres,

The AEA RPQ500 is a killer package for any ribbon mic, because it has all the gain you'll ever need, a high input impedance, plus the built-in EQ for less money than most of the other 500 series pres mentioned above. AEA is a dealer for Coles and we use them to evaluate our preamps all the time, so we have plenty of experience to bring the most out of these lovely mics.

Check out this review on Recording Hacks:
AEA RPQ500 High Performance Preamp | recording hacks

[warhead]

The nice thing about that RPQ 500 is that you can use it on condensers or dynamic / ribbons and essentially light them on FIRE with pure, clean gain. The EQ is a pure bonus too, and sounds great.

It's likely overlooked since it's built by primarily a mic company...but it's a stand out for sure.

War

[pan60]

Originally Posted by CompEq

Pan, is the Mint Julep still being produced?

not sure? but i do not think so?

Originally Posted by sessionatstudiom

You beat me to it. The MAAG Audio Pre Q4 has plenty of gain for any ribbon mic. Plus it sounds really good.

Mike

the MAAG Audio Pre Q4 is great and gets a big thumbs up here: )

[StringMike]

Don't have the coles, but I tend to prefer my API pres for my Great Rivers for ribbons (B&O, Crowley & Tripp) - for louder sources, that is...

[unfiltered420]

Originally Posted by dadodetres

So im upgrading my studio and planning to get a 500 series setup.

My main mics for drum OHs are a pair of Coles 4038. I also use them for rooms when micing other sources, or semi-distant mics on vocals (as 2nd mic).

What 500 series preamps will be the best for the Coles?

thanks!

I use coles 4038 exclusively for OH's as well. I use vintech 473's, and they have vintech 500 series modules for lunchbox now, but anything will work, API, neve, clean, anything works well with the coles. A couple things, try out a recorderman technique for OH's, amazing with the coles. For the most beautiful timbre, I'd use only the coles and no other mics on the kit. But for detail, you want a snare and kick mic as well. But try just the coles and a little compression and eq for an amazing and simple drum sound. While great for cymbal mics, their response in the bass is enough to where you don't really need a kick mic, and with recorderman, the bass and snare are locked into a tight center image.

Also, maybe try one of those cloud phantom power for ribbons, I heard they can enhance the sound, maybe brighten it without eq.

The coles are amazing mics, and while limited in the the high end to 15k, the bass response is amazing, and the 15k limit is great for cymbals and drums in general, unless you want super fine detail. When I find a great piece of gear like the 4038's, I try to get as much of the signal in the mix as possible, which means as few other mics as possible. There are so many options for 500 series preamps, though, so I'd go for value, like seventh circle audio or other DIY.

[gsbe]

What style of music? For most drum-bashing styles, I don't think you're going to have problems pairing the 4038 with any preamp. If you're doing very quiet jazz stuff, some preamps may contribute too much noise when cranked up. That said, I've found the Cloudlifter gives me enough gain without noise that any preamp I've tried can be used with ribbons. I've even experimented with the preamps in an old Presonus Firepod and found the Cloudlifter helped maintain the sonic characteristics of the ribbons while boosting the signal enough to use these cheaper (and noisier) preamps.

The Avedis MA5 sounds noticeably better to me in the styles that I record than the AEA RPQ500. The RPQ500 sounds sharper and more critical to my ears than the wide and full sound of the MA5. This is true even when I use the gentle slopes available in the RPQ500's EQ section, better but still sharp and narrow sounding when compared to the MA5 with no EQ. To my ears, the preamp stage in the RPQ500 produces this sharp, narrow sound and no EQ, regardless of slope, is able to tame this initial stage.

I'd rather use a 4038 with the Cloudlifter and MA5 than the RPQ500. I own one of each of these preamps and wish I had 2 MA5s. I purchased the stereo Cloudlifter CL-2 because I regularly use ribbons in stereo. So far I've used the Cloudlifter to boost quiet sources with the Coles 4038, Royer R121, RCA 77, RCA 44, Cascade Fathead, and Cascade X-15.

[CompEq]

Originally Posted by pan60

not sure? but i do not think so?

Okay, thanks. It had been on my list, but the list just keeps getting longer and some things I don't get to in time.

[shamrock]

I love the MA5 with the 4038. I had a chance to use the Neve 517 with the 4038 on fiddle and liked that as well.

[Bommi]

I've noticed I like the sound of my Coles through any good preamp but on overhead and guitar API512 through a Neve 1073LBEQ with a little added sparkle + upper mids usually gives me the result I'm looking for - bright and in your face but with plenty of depth and not harsh at all. The Coles can sound very soft and "natural", sometimes even too much so when looking for a characteristic and present sound, but luckily they take EQ very well - I find I can boost any frequency as much as I need to without the sound becoming muddy or stingy - it becomes more a matter of preference and relation to the overall arrangement. It has quickly become my favorite go-to mic-signal chain combo for recording pretty much anything..

[julian.david]

Originally Posted by gsbe

The Avedis MA5 sounds noticeably better to me in the styles that I record than the AEA RPQ500. The RPQ500 sounds sharper and more critical to my ears than the wide and full sound of the MA5. This is true even when I use the gentle slopes available in the RPQ500's EQ section, better but still sharp and narrow sounding when compared to the MA5 with no EQ. To my ears, the preamp stage in the RPQ500 produces this sharp, narrow sound and no EQ, regardless of slope, is able to tame this initial stage.

Hey gsbe,
What styles do you typically record?
Sorry to hear that you didn't like the RPQ500 so much. Of course it's always difficult to describe perceived differences in sound verbally, but considering that the Avedis MA5 is a transformer-coupled design I can see how the RPQ500 could come across as sharp and critical. In the end, it all depends on what you're looking for. One thing regarding your remark about the EQ section: Not sure what you were going for, but the RPQ500 has a boost-only high frequency section, so whatever you do I would not expect it to lead to perceived "reduced sharpness" or something like that.

Cheers,
Julian

[Drumsound]

I recently heard a stereo piano recording made with 4038s and the new AwTAC Awesome Channel Amplifier that sounded amazing.
Awesome Channel Amplifier 500 series Mic Pre and EQ Module

The recording was done by Chris Garges, and he may have an example of the AwTAC with Coles on drums.

Chris posts here and a lot on the TOMB. He's easy to find.

[NathanEldred]

I'm not sure if any quality preamp will sound anywhere near 'sharp and critical' with a Coles 4038. A least considering the general sound of the Coles which is thick and forgiving.

[EisenAudio]

Not all "ribbon mode" or other low-Z input settings are the same. Some are looking to bridge (voltage transfer) a 30 to 50ohm ribbon, like vintage Coles. Meanwhile, a newer Coles is actually 300ohms - same as a Royer 121, and some of the AEA or RCA mics, as well as several dynamic and condenser mics. The 300ohm setting on a Neve preamp would match, rather than bridge, said mics. While impedance matching (power transfer) can sound nice and round/forward/compressed, it may also incur a -6dB loss, which is not good for noise performance of a low output ribbon on a low volume source. Winding resistance of the preamp's input transformer is also a factor. I have experienced some ribbons being unable to drive a DCR greater than 100ohms without loss of LF bandwidth. Meanwhile, preamps which take the opposite approach with ribbons - high impedance bridging for minimum loss and maximum voltage transfer - are likely to result in a "faster" more articulate sound.

As for the original question, I can personally attest that a 4038 on drums sounds sufficiently big and clear through an Awesome Channel Amplifier, especially in the low end. No mud.

[julian.david]

Originally Posted by EisenAudio

Not all "ribbon mode" or other low-Z input settings are the same. Some are looking to bridge (voltage transfer) a 30 to 50ohm ribbon, like vintage Coles. Meanwhile, a newer Coles is actually 300ohms - same as a Royer 121, and some of the AEA or RCA mics, as well as several dynamic and condenser mics. The 300ohm setting on a Neve preamp would match, rather than bridge, said mics. While impedance matching (power transfer) can sound nice and round/forward/compressed, it may also incur a -6dB loss, which is not good for noise performance of a low output ribbon on a low volume source. Winding resistance of the preamp's input transformer is also a factor. I have experienced some ribbons being unable to drive a DCR greater than 100ohms without loss of LF bandwidth. Meanwhile, preamps which take the opposite approach with ribbons - high impedance bridging for minimum loss and maximum voltage transfer - are likely to result in a "faster" more articulate sound.

I couldn't agree more on this one! I would add that impedance-matching (i.e. low-impedance preamp inputs) will not only incur a overall loss in level, but also affect the amplitude frequency response particularly at its extremes in the low and high end of the spectrum. This effect will be different for each microphone design.

[McPhaul]

For those recomending the MAAG Audio Pre Q4, have you used it with the Coles or have you simply used it with another mic and assume that it will match well with the Coles?

The reason for the question is that the Maag site lists the Nominal Input Impedance of the pre as 150 Ohms. The modern Coles Output Impedance is 300 Ohms. From that I would not expect them to be a good match? See the above posts.

So has anyone really used this pair with a good result? Can you explain how the sound differed from say an API with the Coles?

[pan60]

Originally Posted by CompEq

Okay, thanks. It had been on my list, but the list just keeps getting longer and some things I don't get to in time.

yea kinda bummer: (

try the MAAG Audio Pre Q4

I like it, but the Forssell its it home as well.

Also don't over look the A-Design EM-BLUE or some more other colored pres for that matter.