Great River MP-2NV or A-Designs Pacifica????

[stvintage]

I've heard great things about both. The MP-2NV seems to be better suited for ribbon mics, from what I hear.? What are you guys' opinions.???

[maskedman72]

cant comment on the a-designs, but you cant go wrong with the mp2nv.

[jlsgear]

Sound wise ... hmmmm ... hard to say ....

But the GR has that feature where impedences are selectable ... ribbons are sensitive to that ... so perhaps that's a point in the GR's favour.

jls

Originally Posted by stvintage

I've heard great things about both. The MP-2NV seems to be better suited for ribbon mics, from what I hear.? What are you guys' opinions.???

[mds]

The output knob on the GR is nice too...you can control how hard you hit the transformers for cleaner to way colored sound on one preamp.

Mike

[maskedman72]

the gr really shines when you begin to stack tracks. it sounds amazing. my recordings went up another level when i got mine.

[severe]

...also very interested in replies to this topic.

[laoded]

I own a Pacifica and use a Great River regularily. Though I haven't directly A/B'd them, I've noticed that the Great River is a slower, "heavier" sounding pre...somewhat akin to Neve pres.

The Pacifica is somewhat faster and brighter. It's hard to explain, but it's more open sounding. Right now I really like the Royer 121 with the Pacifica for electric guitars...there's an openness to the top end that's really nice. Then I'll use the GR or an Ampex 351 with a 421U5 or 57, and decide on a mic/pre combo for distant micing based on the tones and room. [It seems like everyone I've been recording lately use vintage Fender amps with semihollows...if someone came in with a Hiwatt Custom and an SG, I would consider switching over to the Great River with the 121].

I always use an ATTY with the Pacifica...the pre sounds very nice when pushed.

The Pacifica has only been around for about two weeks now, but so far it's been used for lots of stuff - trumpet, trombone, flugelhorn, baritone sax, cello, violin, viola, omni rooms for drums, wurlitzer, juno 60, and electric guitar - and everyone's been very happy with the results. The Millenia and Sytek haven't seen so much action lately except when needing extra ins (though the Hardy still gets a lot of mileage)

The Pacifica and Great River are both great "new" units, and I think you'd be happy with either one of them. I've haven't tried the Pacifica yet for bass or kick drum (GR and 351s have that assignment). I suppose a big factor would involve other preamps that you already own...or just buy both!!!!

[AdamJay]

i'll echo laoded's comments.

GR - Big and Heavy
Pacifica - HiFi and Elegant

you should get both, really. or, you could get some (but not all) of the characteristics from both in the Phoenix DRS-2. Its Big and Elegant.

the fact of the matter is, you wouldn't be disappointed if you through a dart and randomly picked either. they all rock and they all put smiles on countless engineers' faces daily.

[Dot]

stvintage, what kind of sound are you going for? What other preamps do you have?

[Brad McGowan]

I have both. AdamJay gave a good description of both that I agree with. I tend to like the Pacifica on more things than the Great River since it has that amazing openness. On sources where I want a thicker or meatier sound though I will choose the Great River. They compliment each other well though. I always pick the Pacifica for electric guitars, vocals, and drum overheads. For bass guitar I tend to gravitate towards the Great River. However as soon as I get my new REDDI then that will change.

The loading and impedance switches on the Great River make it very versatile for use with dynamic and ribbon mics. However, guitars sound oh so right when I put a ribbon into the Pacifica. If I could pick just one it would be the Pacifica for sure.

Brad

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

On sources where I want a thicker or meatier sound though I will choose the Great River. I always pick the Pacifica for electric guitars

I find that most guitar amps are already 'too bright' to digital (and often tape too) when it sounds 'right' in the room. Dulling the amp to the extreme isn't the answer (although rolling off a bit of highs and presence is a good idea in my practical experience), the right mic and preamp are the right answer IMO. So my point being that I like preamps with a solid top and meaty low midrange, i.e. Great River....which BTW is my ULTIMATE for guitar amps (preferably run through a Chandler TG Channel after the GR, but just the GR by itself is great because of it's specific frequency curve, again solid top, clear midrange, and beefy low). And I wouldn't have any problem recording a whole album with a GR NV, if the album doesn't sound great, then it's not the fault of the preamp that's a definite.

[robot gigante]

Yeah, well don't discount the midrange in the Pacifica either, and it's never been too bright when I've used it for guitars into Pro Tools, even with that open top (clearer in the top end than most, not brighter is how I would put it).

Actually I've done the same thing Nathan has described for guitars only with the Pacifica and the TG Channel instead of the GR and the Channel. Sounds fantastic especially with a titch of the tape process in a Cranesong Hedd.

Seriously man, flip a coin- you won't go wrong with either- though my opinion tends to sway to being the same as Brad's, just because I really like the way the Pacifica sounds with vocals.

Better yet, I'm sure you can try them out, do that and make your own decision.

[severe]

The thing that had thrown me off in making a decision between these two pres is the Great River's adjustable output level and inserts. It seems to put it at an advantage in the "first real pre" debate, based on versatility.

Then, OTOH, everyone has so many great things to say about the Pacifica and its abilty to be pushed when its pad is engaged, etc.

This thread has helped.


Thanks.

[laoded]

i really like using the GR and Pacifica together for close micing of cabs. i didn't expect this when the Pacifica first arrived, but i prefer the Pacifica over the GR and the tube pres when using a ribbon like the 121 — to me, the Pacifica brings out the high mids in a cool way, and is also a great foil to the proximity effect that sometimes can come into play with close micing. i'm esp looking forward to a session coming up when i'll get a chance to use a 4038 with the Pacifica.

in a way, the Pacifica could be thought of as more "versatile" than the GR — it might be better suited for someone who works with different styles of music...like, if there could be only one pre for someone who would track a chamber group one day, then guitars for an indie band the next day, the Pacifica might be the way to go - it's nicely colored, but not as thick as the GR.

but, i really like both preamps...you can't go wrong with either one.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by severe

The thing that had thrown me off in making a decision between these two pres is the Great River's adjustable output level and inserts. It seems to put it at an advantage in the "first real pre" debate, based on versatility.

Then, OTOH, everyone has so many great things to say about the Pacifica and its abilty to be pushed when its pad is engaged, etc.

This thread has helped.


Thanks.

Use your ears, get in a Pacifica and get in a GR and spend time with them side by side in your place. You choose one and send the other back, costs you a few bucks in shipping in the end. Just a suggestion, it's kind of the only way you'll feel good about your decision.

War

[Jonathan Starr]

I have both and use them daily.

The Pacifica is a great match for an R84 for vocals. it's full and open and airy, but masks defects in marginal voices.

I never was able to get the R84 to work well with the Great river or my APIs. The sound felt a bit dead; it never "blossomed".

With LDCs they are all wonderful but different.

[StoneinaPond]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

I find that most guitar amps are already 'too bright' to digital (and often tape too) when it sounds 'right' in the room. Dulling the amp to the extreme isn't the answer (although rolling off a bit of highs and presence is a good idea in my practical experience), the right mic and preamp are the right answer IMO. So my point being that I like preamps with a solid top and meaty low midrange, i.e. Great River....which BTW is my ULTIMATE for guitar amps (preferably run through a Chandler TG Channel after the GR, but just the GR by itself is great because of it's specific frequency curve, again solid top, clear midrange, and beefy low). And I wouldn't have any problem recording a whole album with a GR NV, if the album doesn't sound great, then it's not the fault of the preamp that's a definite.

So Nathan, you obviously are having problems getting a good guitar sound outside of the GR.

And since you are a dealer for the GR and may not even have tried a Pacifica, I think your emphasis on the GR is a tad disingenuous, if not dishonest.

That being said, the GR is no slouch. On the contrary, it is a fine pre. But as many have pointed out, the best advice that anyone should give, but especially you with your vested interest, is for the questioner to try both in their own environment.

Throwing darts is also a good option.

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by StoneinaPond

And since you are dealer for the GR and may not even have tried a Pacifica, I think your emphasis on the GR is a tad disingenuous, if not dishonest.

Your logic is what they call a fallacy, on a few levels. You can see what a fallacy is on the internet by looking it up in google, most college grads know what this is if they took an ethics class at any point. And since when is someone's opinion subject to scrutiny based on something they haven't said? Why is my opinion even troubling you? I'm not having trouble getting a good guitar sound outside of the Great River, it's what I prefer on guitar, I'm pretty ****ing adamant about what I like.

But for some reason you want to turn what one engineer likes into something beyond that, turning it into something personal. I don't like brighter preamps on guitar amps, end of story. The preamp you are referring to, cannot be both bright and not bright, it's one or the other. And I've been through this before here on this lovely forum, bright is not a dirty word...is necessary for any production, just like a whole other slew of gear that are ascribed to various audio adjectives.

So whatever you say, it sounds like you are on a personal crusade, I'll just keep doing what I'm doing day in and day out just like I have been for years now and continue being a successful and positive person. So if you want to keep going on with it, it's all you. I'm sure we are both capable of being complete assholes to each other. I'd really prefer to take the high road here. Consider it a token of respect on my part, especially considering you are an anonymous person on an internet forum, it's not real life. I think (actually make that KNOW for a fact) that many, many people know me for being honest and for having very solid advice....enough said.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

Your logic is what they call a fallacy, on a few levels. You can see what a fallacy is on the internet by looking it up in google, most college grads know what this is if they took an ethics class at any point. And since when is someone's opinion subject to scrutiny based on something they haven't said? Why is my opinion even troubling you? I'm not having trouble getting a good guitar sound outside of the Great River, it's what I prefer on guitar, I'm pretty ****ing adamant about what I like.

But for some reason you want to turn what one engineer likes into something beyond that, turning it into something personal. I don't like brighter preamps on guitar amps, end of story. The preamp you are referring to, cannot be both bright and not bright, it's one or the other. And I've been through this before here on this lovely forum, bright is not a dirty word...is necessary for any production, just like a whole other slew of gear that are ascribed to various audio adjectives.

So whatever you say, it sounds like you are on a personal crusade, I'll just keep doing what I'm doing day in and day out just like I have been for years now and continue being a successful and positive person. So if you want to keep going on with it, it's all you. I'm sure we are both capable of being complete assholes to each other. I'd really prefer to take the high road here. Consider it a token of respect on my part, especially considering you are an anonymous person on an internet forum, it's not real life. I think (actually make that KNOW for a fact) that many, many people know me for being honest and for having very solid advice....enough said.

[StoneinaPond]

Wow, every time I try to reply to your post, it changes. So here’s the short reply.

….I'm sure we are both capable of being complete assholes to each other….

Look, you can expose your backside if you like, but there is only one person’s rear end that I like to look at - and she’s female.

….many people know me…for having very solid advice....

OK, yes, sometimes.

But you haven’t answered the central point of my post. Have you tried the Pacifica? If you haven’t, and you fail to mention that, then your opinion is biased.

And the only logical conclusion to draw from that is that you have a vested interest in expressing your “opinion.”

[severe]

Originally Posted by StoneinaPond

...And since you are a dealer for the GR and may not even have tried a Pacifica, I think your emphasis on the GR is a tad disingenuous, if not dishonest

C'mon, Nathan's opinion was welcome. Hell...it was invited. No need to start slang'n sh*t all over the place. Many people on this forum have biased opinions for an variety of reasons. I think it takes the forum member to wade through what he or she sees as bullsh*t.

Having said that, I also think Nathan stated a legitimate reason for his preference.

[StoneinaPond]

Originally Posted by severe

C'mon, Nathan's opinion was welcome. Hell...it was invited. No need to start slang'n sh*t all over the place. Many people on this forum have biased opinions for an variety of reasons. I think it takes the forum member to wade through what he or she sees as bullsh*t.

Having said that, I also think Nathan stated a legitimate reason for his preference.

Well bully for you.

If Nathan can't take a bit of slagging off, well that's tough shit.

...also very interested in replies to this topic.

Obviously only the sanitized ones.

Anyway, I'm not going to indulge every fawning fan of APA. It's a dealership. End of story.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

But for some reason you want to turn what one engineer likes into something beyond that, turning it into something personal. I don't like brighter preamps on guitar amps, end of story. The preamp you are referring to, cannot be both bright and not bright, it's one or the other. And I've been through this before here on this lovely forum, bright is not a dirty word...is necessary for any production, just like a whole other slew of gear that are ascribed to various audio adjectives.

I think this is a situation where you aren't qualified to comment on the "bright-ness" of the Pacifica (which is the pre in question), because I don't believe you have ever used one..

As someone who is suppose to be respected here on GS, you should probably state that you don't have any experience with the Pacifica. People might naturally assume that you have actually used the Pacifica. So, your assumptions on the bright-ness of said pre either positive or negative in nature are not from first hand experience.

Hey, that could be construed into a fallacy, huh?...

stvintage, half of these guys will say they love their GR, and the other half will say they love their Pacifica... The best advice is what War recommended. Try them both for yourself and decide which one is right for you.

[Doublehelix]

I have the Great River unit, and I find that I am not really digging it with ribbon mics, but that might just be me. I prefer the API 512C, and believe it or not, the Focusrite ISA428 with ribbons (it is one of the few uses that the ISA428 gets nowadays).

I do love the GR for vocals however, and with dynamics on guitars (MD421, M201, e906).

Would love to try the Pacifica some day!

[laoded]

Originally Posted by Doublehelix

I have the Great River unit, and I find that I am not really digging it with ribbon mics, but that might just be me. I prefer the API 512C, and believe it or not, the Focusrite ISA428 with ribbons (it is one of the few uses that the ISA428 gets nowadays).

I do love the GR for vocals however, and with dynamics on guitars (MD421, M201, e906).

Would love to try the Pacifica some day!

I'm with Doublehelix on this one: to me the GR works better with mics like the 421 or a 57 than with ribbons. The low end from a ribbon/GR combo can be a bit much, and often gets cut anyhow...but the GR can do a good job taming any perceived harshness from a dynamic. And yes, the GR works well with vocals.

Again, both are very nice pres...just depends on trying them both out and figuring out what works best for your setup.

[jbuntz]

I use the Pacifca side by side to real neves every day. The pacifica is a better match to ribbons than the neve is, both 121 and 4038. Neve makes ribbons a bit too dark. Especially to tape. You have to do some radical eqing to make a 4038 > Neve > tape have some sparkle. Though some may disagree, ribbons tend to want 1500 ohms or higher which the GR or neve can't do though I'm sure it will work fine.

[Brad McGowan]

Didn't Dan Kennedy put the 300 ohm loading switch on the GR specifically for the purpose of better mating with the Royer ribbons? Can anyone confirm this?

Brad

[lclyman]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

Didn't Dan Kennedy put the 300 ohm loading switch on the GR specifically for the purpose of better mating with the Royer ribbons? Can anyone confirm this?

Brad

Yes he did, and with that loading switch engaged I've found both the R84 and Royer open up on the top end very nicely...!

Those impedance switches add some more useful colors to the already extremely versatile GR pallette...

Thanks,
Larry

[Fletcher]

The 300/1200 ohm switch sits on the front of the MP-2NV because it sat on the back of the 1073. It was a pain in the ass to switch when it was on the back of the 1073. If you didn't install the belly pans on the desk you could send the assistant down under the desk to switch the switch for you... if you have the units in a frame then you had to pull the module to switch the switch.

I found that switching the switch was often cool... and a pain in the balls... so when we were going over features for the MP-2NV the switch from the back moved to it's more convenient location on the front of the unit.

The fact that the different taps on the input transformer to which that switch routes the signal makes a not too subtle tonal difference was the imputus for the switches inclusion on the front panel of the Great River unit... that it makes a palpable difference is part of the bonus plan.

Peace

[Trinity]

How bout the Great river EQ-2NV. Do these outboard EQs actually sound much better as compared to plugins? I would like to get a great river combo, but it only comes in single channel. So it either a dual channel pre or a single channel combo. any thoughts guys about outboard eqs? do they really make a difference? or i'd be better of with the pacifica?