George Lynch tone
Reag1502
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#1
8th July 2006
Old 8th July 2006
  #1
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwagener
Funny enough, the setup we used on Vito was almost exactly the same as the one we used on Nuno (and SkidRow), down to the same settings on the ADA. We also used one of the first GrooveTubes 30W tube amps with a direct recording output, still got it, looks beautiful, red and Chrome, like an old Chevy. That amp is what you hear on the solo on "Wait" which he played during drum tracking, origianally as a scratch, but we never got the same feel as the scratch, so we kept it. A great guitar player makes an engineer's/producer's life extremely easy and fun

That's so cool! I love hearing stories like that. Any stories to share about George Lynch?
DHD
#2
8th July 2006
Old 8th July 2006
  #2
DHD
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When I first looked at Gearlsutz I noticed some of mwagener's replies and had a look at his web site. I was amazed at how many of those records I owned and loved. I think I bought just over half of those listed on the partial discography! Thank you so much Micheal for giving me a wonderful alternative to the Kylie Minogue and other Stock, Aitkin and Waterman cr@p out in the UK at the time!

Loving this extreme thread and seconding the request for info on anything George Lynch.

Peace,
DHD
#3
11th July 2006
Old 11th July 2006
  #3
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bob st john's Avatar
 



hey, i have to third that on the curiousity as to how that george lynch sound came about...to me, george's sound on those dokken records defined the genre...

one thing that is simply fascinating, is the fact that that ad/a shows up on so many records (and with the same settings) and can sound so different from artist to artist...
#4
11th July 2006
Old 11th July 2006
  #4
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
Obviously George's tone is coming from the way he plays, out of his hands, but since you asked:

The setup for George's guitar tone on "Under Lock And Key" was as follows:
We had two Marshall heads and two Laney heads, not sure which models, but one of them was a Plexi. We had cabs in three different rooms: two cabs were placed in the big room at Amigo, one connected to a Marshall, the other connected to the Laney. The Marshall was responsible for the high end part of the sound and the Laney was set to take care of the low end. There were 14 (fourteen) mics set up in that room in various psoitions around the cabinet and some further away to get some room tone. The second Laney was sent into a very dead room and had a Boss chorus pedal in front of it, set to very slight chorus. The second Marshall was sent into a small, tiled bathroom, to add a different room tone. Those 16 mics came in on the MCI 500 console mic pres. They were bussed to one bus and that bus had a UREI 530 EQ on it (best guitar EQ ever). George mentioned that he always gets a great tone with his Fostex 4track recorder when it's in total overdrive, so I asked him to bring it in. So after the 530 everything was sent to the Fostex 4track, which lived under a packing blanket under the console, so nobody would see it. The Fostex was on stunn, completely overdriven and was sent on to the 3M 32 track dig machine from there.

No, I am NOT kidding!!!
#5
11th July 2006
Old 11th July 2006
  #5
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I moved the Lynch topic from the Extreme thread over here, in order to keep the Extreme thread on topic.
#6
11th July 2006
Old 11th July 2006
  #6
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heyman's Avatar
Michael, I remember growing up reading guitar mags and George talked about a "Sustaniac" Pedal or something during solos...

Can you elaborate?

Thanks,

Jim
#7
11th July 2006
Old 11th July 2006
  #7
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Bob Ross's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwagener
George mentioned that he always gets a great tone with his Fostex 4track recorder when it's in total overdrive, so I asked him to bring it in. So after the 530 everything was sent to the Fostex 4track, which lived under a packing blanket under the console, so nobody would see it. The Fostex was on stunn, completely overdriven and was sent on to the 3M 32 track dig machine from there.

No, I am NOT kidding!!!


Reminds me of an episode back in '91 when I was playing bass for my first (and last!) major label big budget album, and An Engineer Who Shall Remain Unnamed was complaining that, despite the plethora of gear in Hit Factory Studio C, he couldn't get a decent tone from my Steinberger bass. I said "dude, what's your problem? I can get a fatter tone with a Tascam Portastudio!" So he challenged me to prove it.

And I did: Next day I brought in a 246, plugged the bass straight into the Tascam, took the line out into some unbalanced-to-balanced converter they had lying around, & from that straight into the Mitsu multitrack. Big, fat & greasy bass, in yo' face. Eat my poo, overpriced famous Engineer Who Shall Remain Unnamed.

Of course, once I proved my point, he went back to using "real" gear (& eventually came up with a sound everyone was satisfied with). I think he just couldn't bear the thought of using a Portastudio on a major label big budget album. Dickhead.
#8
11th July 2006
Old 11th July 2006
  #8
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heyman's Avatar
Bob, you are right on with that porta studio.. I have heard guitars tracked to that thing, directly in or mic'd that were some of the best as well..

That thing has some mojo..
#9
12th July 2006
Old 12th July 2006
  #9
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bob st john's Avatar
 

hahaha...these are GREAT!!!

first of all...thanks for that answer to the lynch tone, michael. of course it's the player...and when i was just a kid (i use THAT term loosely), i remember hearing some sort of rumor that there was something mighty peculiar in line. what blows MY mind is that it was after all the "pro" gear! AMAZING!

same thing with the portastudio and the "unnamed engineer." nothing worse than a bunch of snooty engineers you know, some days it's just what WORKS...damn 'em all if it's bad audio. who cares? any disbelievers can just dig out those dokken records...that is an amazing tone. ballsy, macho, but you swear you can hear the paper cones on the speakers! i can recall many nights when nuno and me were chasing that tone (gotta remember that he was 17 at the time...using a laney and a charvel...ah, memories)

i still have people picking on me for using my 224 x and LA 3A's...and if there WAS a plug-in or something that sounded better? well, i'm not THAT proud...besides they're worth a fortune on ebay

i don't know if george used the sustainiac gtr...but i do remember recording them before. wild things. i can't be sure if i remember...but the guitar neck or headstock appeared to have some sort of transducer built into it; when you hit the pedal it would feed signal into the transducer and the thing would sustain FOREVER! wild thing, for sure...and it sure beat listening to the control room monitors at 120 db maybe somebody here remembers those things...talk about feeling OLD!
#10
12th July 2006
Old 12th July 2006
  #10
Gear interested
 

I'd sure like to know about the setup that created George Lynch's guitar sounds on "Heaven Sent" -- Back for the Attack album.

particularly, guitars used, pedals, amps, effects, delays, reverbs, etc..

All of his parts sound so bad-ass on that song...
like the lead fills going into and through the 2nd verse.
And the solo is mind-blowing.
#11
12th July 2006
Old 12th July 2006
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulltone74
I'd sure like to know about the setup that created George Lynch's guitar sounds on "Heaven Sent" -- Back for the Attack album.

particularly, guitars used, pedals, amps, effects, delays, reverbs, etc..

All of his parts sound so bad-ass on that song...
like the lead fills going into and through the 2nd verse.
And the solo is mind-blowing.
Sorry, wasn't involved with that one.
#12
12th July 2006
Old 12th July 2006
  #12
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fuzzface777's Avatar
 

Or you can buy the George Lynch Time Machine Boost- hand wired model- with the mr scary switch for about 400-500 USD, only about 38 -40 in the world. Yes I have it...
#13
13th July 2006
Old 13th July 2006
  #13
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turk sanchez's Avatar
Under Lock and Key is the best sounding Dokken record I think...I freaked out when I heard it...blew my mind at 11 years old. Still sounds cool.
#14
13th July 2006
Old 13th July 2006
  #14
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everybody's x's Avatar
 

Under Lock and Key was the first record where I thought "holy shit who PRODUCED this album?"
quite a foreign thought for a 15 year old

in other words

Nice work Michael thumbsup
#15
13th July 2006
Old 13th July 2006
  #15
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TheSweetener's Avatar
 

I thought there was a signature Lynch preamp module for the Randall tube stuff coming out?
Might be interesting.
#16
13th July 2006
Old 13th July 2006
  #16
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preben's Avatar
 

From memory the Sustainiac was basically a guitar with kind of a built in e-bow that by introducing a magnetic field around the strings would make any note sustain indefinitely - I think it might even (unlike the e-bow) have worked with full chords.
DHD
#17
13th July 2006
Old 13th July 2006
  #17
DHD
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Hi Micheal and thanks for taking the time to talk about this stuff.

One of my all time favorite albums is Dokens Beast from the East that you mixed. Any mix trick or stories about that one?

Also I remember seeing a Doken music video and the solo and overall sound was different to the album version. Did you have anything to do with the singles and was there any retracked guitar solos. Any details would be cool.

Thanks again,
DHD
#18
13th July 2006
Old 13th July 2006
  #18
Lives for gear
 

I wish George could go back in time and re-amp the guitars on Tooth and Nail.

(Great album, but WTF did he record his guitar direct?!? Aweful tone, to say the least!)
#19
13th July 2006
Old 13th July 2006
  #19
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Mike Douaire's Avatar
 

Hey don't forget the reason for a lot of his sound. His signature Genz Benz 2x12 G-Flex guitar cab. Check that out, anything from Genz Benz kicks ass...
#20
13th July 2006
Old 13th July 2006
  #20
Gear Head
 

I don't know if any of this is true, but on the Les Paul Forum there were a series of "articles" about the amp supposedly used by Lynch and Slash. Links below.

"In late 1985, during rehearsals following the November 1985 release of Dokken’s “Under Lock And Key” album, George Lynch rented a modified Marshall head from S.I.R. (Studio Instrument Rentals in Los Angeles). The amp was a 100W Marshall Super Tremolo (Model 1959T) - a hand-wired, pre-master volume model of the “Metal Panel” (post-“Plexi”) variety (manufactured sometime between mid-’69 and mid-’73). George was so “blown away” by this “perfect amp” (George’s words - not mine) - known to S.I.R. as “Stock #39 - that he desperately tried to convince S.I.R. to sell it to him. After S.I.R. refused to sell #39 or even reveal the name of the person who had modified the amp, George paid approximately $2,000 just to rent the amp for the first leg of Dokken’s tour in early 1986.

Upon returning #39 to S.I.R. following his rental of the amp, George finally learned the name of the mystery modifier who had performed the modification to #39: Tim Caswell (Tim had worked in S.I.R.’s tech/service department for several years until 1985, when he left S.I.R. just prior to George’s rental of #39). Subsequently, George contacted Tim in order to have a handful of his own Marshalls similarly modified.

In short, Tim’s modification to #39 consisted of utilizing the amp’s then-unused tremolo circuit (with its additional pre-amp tube) to hot-rod the Marshall by adding an extra pre-amp gain stage. A master volume control was also part of the modification to #39, since the amp was a pre-master volume model."

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=86985

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/sh...ighlight=slash

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/sh...ighlight=slash
#21
13th July 2006
Old 13th July 2006
  #21
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Bob Ross's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by preben
From memory the Sustainiac was basically a guitar with kind of a built in e-bow that by introducing a magnetic field around the strings would make any note sustain indefinitely
Pretty sure it's exactly the same as the Fernandes Sustainer...and pretty sure both of those widgits owe a huge debt to Steve Holland's proprietary devices that he built in the late 1970's. (Check out Randy Roos' Mistral album for an early example.)
#22
13th July 2006
Old 13th July 2006
  #22
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Sunbreak Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ross
Pretty sure it's exactly the same as the Fernandes Sustainer...and pretty sure both of those widgits owe a huge debt to Steve Holland's proprietary devices that he built in the late 1970's. (Check out Randy Roos' Mistral album for an early example.)
I've got one on a Jackson (which I've modded into a fretless 5 string), and it's the same as an ebow, but looks similiar to a pickup. Has a switch for the higher, whining feedback that lasts forever.....or until the battery runs out

At one point, I talked to the guy who has the patents, and he stated that his deal w/ Jackson was done, but you can get them at his website sustainiac.com .

The technology was also a big part of the "Infinite guitar" used by Michael Brook and The Edge (remember that theremin whistling sound at the beginning of "With or Without You"?)......
CAA
#23
13th July 2006
Old 13th July 2006
  #23
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevennn

Upon returning #39 to S.I.R. following his rental of the amp, George finally learned the name of the mystery modifier who had performed the modification to #39: Tim Caswell (Tim had worked in S.I.R.’s tech/service department for several years until 1985, when he left S.I.R. just prior to George’s rental of #39). Subsequently, George contacted Tim in order to have a handful of his own Marshalls similarly modified.

In short, Tim’s modification to #39 consisted of utilizing the amp’s then-unused tremolo circuit (with its additional pre-amp tube) to hot-rod the Marshall by adding an extra pre-amp gain stage. A master volume control was also part of the modification to #39, since the amp was a pre-master volume model."
After reading this, I recalled that Tim now works at Studio Electronics (I have a preamp and compressor of his that both totally smoke). In reading through the SE news, I found this link: http://caswellamps.studioelectronics.com/
#24
14th July 2006
Old 14th July 2006
  #24
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mwagener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHD
Hi Micheal and thanks for taking the time to talk about this stuff.

One of my all time favorite albums is Dokens Beast from the East that you mixed. Any mix trick or stories about that one?

Also I remember seeing a Doken music video and the solo and overall sound was different to the album version. Did you have anything to do with the singles and was there any retracked guitar solos. Any details would be cool.

Thanks again,
DHD
No mix tricks, just trying to do the best I could with what they had recorded.

Yes, I remixed the track for the music video and single (what was the song title again?)
#25
16th July 2006
Old 16th July 2006
  #25
Gear nut
 

Thanks Michael for all the wonderful work on those Dokken albums. To me then, Dokken was the best band in the world at the time. I used to listen to them everyday before and after school and even in school sometimes (sneaking in a walkman). Used to go to all the concerts in the L.A. area, especially the Monsters of Rock. That concert was absolutely the best. Even Jeff Pilson himself said that Monsters of Rock in L.A. was the best time he had out performing. I really love George Lynch's guitar (best in the world) and was entertained to read how you recorded him (lol through a Fostex). Too bad Don and George couldn't get along, bleh.

Oh btw, my brother has a Groove Tube amp also. It has a D.I. port in the back. I am wondering if this is for some sort of input or is it for output to a D.I. preamp?

James
DHD
#26
16th July 2006
Old 16th July 2006
  #26
DHD
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Hi again Micheal,

sorry for the delay getting back to you. I've been trying to download Dokken videos off the net to find which ones I want you to talk about! But I haven't been able to get the ones I think I saw those years ago on TV.

From my poor recall The video involved the band driving around the street (of LA) and people joining in singing with them. They were in a car and George plays his solo from the back of a convertable (I think). When I try to hear the track in my minds ear I hear the Dokken track It's Not Love! One of my favorites from the Beast from the East tape. Speaking of which, I loaned the tape to a freinds many years ago and had to buy a secondhand CD version which was missing a couple of tracks.

I have I think heard 3 versions of Dream Warriors from the Nightmare on Elmstreet movie. Any details on the single for Dream Warriors would be cool also.

It's so good to come out of the closet and say it loud - I loved Dokken back in the day!

Peace,
DHD
#27
16th July 2006
Old 16th July 2006
  #27
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Pfhuck's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwagener
No mix tricks, just trying to do the best I could with what they had recorded.

Yes, I remixed the track for the music video and single (what was the song title again?)
Ummmm.... Burning Like A Flame??
#28
16th July 2006
Old 16th July 2006
  #28
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I think the video track/single I remixed was "Dream Warrior".
"It's Not Love" is on "Under Lock And Key" which I mixed and produced (and I can be heard singing backing vocals, I'm the one with the German accent )
DHD
#29
16th July 2006
Old 16th July 2006
  #29
DHD
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I remember that the Dream Warriors single sounded quite different to the Album mix. Did you edit Georges solo and reprocess it or cut a new solo for the single?

It sounded way more compressed... I guess that would have been mastered for the TV format???

So do you think having a german accent in backing vocals will help with sales in Europe?

Seriously though George Lynch was for me the best true metal guitarist of his time. All those melodic licks in the minor scales and the variety. He's up there with Michael Schenker and Dimebag Darrel for me as top pick metal lead guitarists go.

It's been years since I've listened to the Under Lock and Key album. Again I had it on tape. It might be back in the UK in my Mamma's attiic!! Next timne I'm over there I'll have a look for it. Just to hear you sing

Thanks again Michael for all this cool nostalgia info. It makes me wonder about the equipment used on these classic guitar album and say to myself that if it aint broken why fix it. I would seriously have loved to have been an intern with you during those times just to see the finessing involved with each of those recording and mixing situations.

I dunno if I would ever be in the situation where I could ask for a Michael Wagener mix of my band but if the opportunity ever arose I would take it in a heart beat.

Thanks again,
DHD
#30
16th July 2006
Old 16th July 2006
  #30
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dtucker's Avatar
 

Man, how I love GL!! Amazing tone, incredible and unique left hand voicings...it's all amazing. And, yes, the "Heaven Sent" solo is freakin' insane.

Anyhoo...another question for Michael regarding "UL&K": Were there ever any instances when a drum machine (or sample) was used on that album? When I listen to "The Hunter" and then listen to "In My Dreams" it seems like "Dreams" has a more artificial snare sound to it.

What's the skinny on the drums on that album?

Thanks, Michael!
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