tape, portico 5042, fatso or hedd for tape sound?

[quincyg]

i know the overwhelming response will be only tape sounds like tape, but i like the idea of a small box that can give me that tape saturation sound without a big machine and possible machine noise and maintenance. so do any of these other devices really deliver the goods. i have read the other threads and am not sure what to make of them. one is a thread where 5042 mp3s were extremely processed so of course everone bashed the 5042.
i would love to get some feedback from folks that know what tape sounds like and have used any of these other boxes.
i think my main use would be for vocal, drum and guitar tracking. i have been trying to get that norah jones type warmth on vocals which i think is a combo of a u47 and tape.(and a pretty good voice)

[Fletcher]

It's definitely a matter of taste and personal preference... the HEDD does way more than "tape emulation", the FATSO does "tape emulation" in a different manner and the Portico is the closest I've ever heard to tape... which is a hell of a lot more subtle effect than 99.986% of the people reading/posting through a thread like this remember.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

It's definitely a matter of taste and personal preference... the HEDD does way more than "tape emulation", the FATSO does "tape emulation" in a different manner and the Portico is the closest I've ever heard to tape... which is a hell of a lot more subtle effect than 99.986% of the people reading/posting through a thread like this remember.

Subtle is the word for the Portico. If you really crush it you can get some nice effects but if you use it like it was intended it is pretty laid back. So far for me it is best on guitar tracks and drum room (have not done any vocals with it yet).

In my eyes the Portico is worth the price of admission just for rock guitar tracking if nothing else. I hear that some folks really love it on mix buss as well. I would imagine that it will really shine there as well, looking forward to that but I have not mixed anything seriously since I got mine.

I had a HEDD192 a few years back and it was cool for sure. Never got to try the two side by side but I think the 5042 is a little more real for lack of a better word, could be because it is an analog unit… or I could just be imaginging things. Again subtle is the key here for both the HEDD and the 5042.

So…. I love the 5042 (and the HEDD) but don't expect this huge night and day difference with it, it is a 1% piece for sure.

[Jules]

Fletcher summed it up well (no pun intended!)

right now I have em all in action.. on a mix (clients due thru the door any mo)

Fatso - in my default mix confuguration - on L Vox & electric Bass gtr
Portico 5042 - accross mix buss (after Cranesong STC-8)
Hedd - as mix bus A/D - 96k 24 bit (no process this time, getting enough from the Portico)

The Portico aint a twist twist "oh I hear it" box - is IS very subtle.. but NICE...

What to get will probably drive you mad.. as 'get them all' is the real answer...

Can u get a dealer to lend them all to you for evaluation?

[quincyg]

i think i may be looking for something more than the subtle 1% of the 5042. i want something that will make my vocal tracks feel like the are wrapped in warm wet blanket.

[superjimmer]

Originally Posted by quincyg

i think i may be looking for something more than the subtle 1% of the 5042. i want something that will make my vocal tracks feel like the are wrapped in warm wet blanket.

You may want a nicely colored compressor then: perhaps a Portico 5043 or a Chandler GT1 . . .

[quincyg]

yeah i have pretty good compressor action going. looking for good saturation really.

[drBill]

if you're living in the Pro Tools world, I would highly suggest the Crane Song Phoenix and the Massey Tapehead plug-ins. Phoenix is subtle but works very well - especially as you put on more and more intstances of it. Tapehead absolutely floored me though. I remember tape. Still have a JH24 and have fond memories of slamming Kick, Bass & the like at elevated levels. Tapehead is the closest thing I have found in the digital world that approximates that sound. Well worth the mere $69 (I think) that Steve Massey charges for it. Highly recommended! But be prepared....you'll want all of his plug-ins. Very talented programmer.

[seaneldon]

i do stereo mixes through the HEDD 192 but really keep the tape knob pretty low. maybe set at like 3 or so, utilizing the pentode and triode knobs a little more instead (maybe triode at 5 and pentode at just below 6. i dither with the HEDD also). really makes the low end a little more "put together". within the 5 months i'd like to just sum through tonelux to 1/4" 2 track. maybe 1/2" if the price is right.

[GearHunter]

All of your choices are good, and I'd encourage you to get your hands on a couple of the devices and give them a listen.

The Portico, as has been mentioned, is subtle, but probably the most like real tape.

I think if I had to pick one of those, I might take the HEDD, but it's a tough call. I have a HEDD and I love it to

[matskull]

I could get the portico for 975$ used.
Is it a good deal I should jump on or should I keep my money for pres and stuff like that? (I don't currently have good pres...)

[mistaD]

PRES! For sure, imho the portico is the last thing you would add to an already stellar chain!

[Doc Mixwell]

JCF Latte

2-Channels of old-school sounding mic/pre that punch you in the teeth, with AD converter that can get its signal from either the mic/pres directly, or the Line inputs, so in this regard, the switch is a processor "audition" control, as you take the analog outputs of the mic/pres, into a processor and then BACK to the Line In's on the Latte.

When your not cutting tracks, flip the unit into DA mode as the same electronics that are used for the mic amps, will now be allocated for 2-Channels of DA with AMPEX tape machine electronics. You could grab a head stack and directly connect it to this amplifier block and have a AMPEX tape machine. Its not an emulation, its actually TAPE MACHINE ELECTRONICS.

The JCF stuff, is by far the most analog converter sounding converter boxes out there. The JCF-8DAV turns your computer into a wide format 2" 8-track with eight matched Pultecs on the ass end.

[matskull]

I looked at this site JCF Audio and couldn't find this box.
The tube converters thing looks...interesting e.

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by matskull

I looked at this site JCF Audio and couldn't find this box.
The tube converters thing looks...interesting e.

Thats because its not out yet. Soon....it will be released out into the world for all of the guys and gals who want the best sounding shit available with a digital recorder.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by matskull

I could get the portico for 975$ used.
Is it a good deal I should jump on or should I keep my money for pres and stuff like that? (I don't currently have good pres...)

I have four channels of Portico 5042. I use them exclusively in tracking - kick, snare etc etc. I just cannot get on with them for a mix. There is quite a large 300hz ish hump in them that sort of drags the bass down. You lose a lot of the low end thump - it's a lot more smeary than my Ampex half inch or MCI 2 inch.

I like the Protico as a top end thing - so acoustic guitars or vocals. But for a mix - just not here. And its a little less than 99.fletcher% of the sound of tape!

[Joe_caithness]

How annoying is the dual mono functionality of the Portico in a mastering scenario? Its a nice price and a neat little design, and I do like final stage tape emulation on a lot of projects these days

[tapehiss]

there have also been more products released since this thread started, which include some sort of tape emulation....

-the very praised anamod ats-1

-the new slate audio dragon comp

-the new 500 series 660 styled comp from lepinski with a tape saturation button

-the new DIY tape simulator from sound sculptor (looks killer)

[axisdreamer]

I have never heard a mic pre sound close to that tape sound until I got an old Electrodyne 201A tube mic pre. I record all vocals through it and drum overhead through a ribbon mic and it gives the final mix a pretty darn close to tape sound.I also mix through an auditronics console that has transformers.I love this 201A pre!!
It has a big warm satuarated sound for vocals and it goes way up and open in the high end with no harshness on vocals at all. I used it on trumpet through a stock no mods shure57 and it sounds like a beautiful ribbon mic.One of the best trumpet recordings I've ever heard.This pre is just beautiful all around.They are not easy to find because there old and most people hang on to them but if you look hard you can find them. I have three of them now.

[t_d]

i'm not adding anything terribly new here, but i did have a HEDD and 5042 side by side. the 5042 was way too subtle for me. in fact, i could hear nothing at all. however, it should be noted that i was using it on ambient, very non-dynamic, non-transient material.

i sent the 5042 back. the HEDD i kept (i was buying it mainly as an ad/da) and the "tape" and "tube" blew me away. i love it and use it all the time.

if you're looking for a "wet vocal" sound, i don't think the 5042 will deliver at all. the HEDD can get some of that wet saturated sound for sure, especially in combination of the tape and tube.

but as others have said.. preamps could be your solution too.

i don't think, however, you should look at the 5042 for what you're aiming for.

or, better yet, look at them all and decide for yourself.

[OberHeim-Kenobi]

Originally Posted by quincyg

i know the overwhelming response will be only tape sounds like tape, but i like the idea of a small box that can give me that tape saturation sound without a big machine and possible machine noise and maintenance. so do any of these other devices really deliver the goods. i have read the other threads and am not sure what to make of them. one is a thread where 5042 mp3s were extremely processed so of course everone bashed the 5042.
i would love to get some feedback from folks that know what tape sounds like and have used any of these other boxes.
i think my main use would be for vocal, drum and guitar tracking. i have been trying to get that norah jones type warmth on vocals which i think is a combo of a u47 and tape.(and a pretty good voice)

There is a large collection of gear and talent on norah jones type warmth on vocals. Sure the Hedd and U47 along with the correct chain and mic placement can take you close of this commercial sound. I'm enyoing a lot since i got the Hedd, but these inflated low end and fizzy-smooth hi end is very difficult to catch, I guess it comes from the mastering room . These lo end allows you to crack you stereo without oversaturate your wooffer and permits you to pull the hi end without sounding harsh.

[GearHunter]

Obviously the HEDD is a super elegant and expensive solution which does so much more than just emulate tape. It's a fantastic converter too, as well as being a format-converter and more. I have had mine for 12 years and I do not ever plan to part with it.

What I like about the Portico is that it actually sounds quite a bit like real tape. It's pretty subtle (but audible), even when you crank it. I have run in to a lot of people with unrealistic expectations of Portico. They think it's going to have this very obvious fatness/over-drivey or dirty thing to it, and it doesn't. In other words, it sounds like real tape, high-speed on a good machine.

[LeMauce]

Originally Posted by tapehiss

-the new DIY tape simulator from sound sculptor (looks killer)

Here a GS thread... http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...simulator.html

[Fleaman]

Hedd for it's conversion.
Fatso or UBK for it's compression and saturation (tranny saturation, not tape saturation).
5042 for....well, not for me. Maybe if all you want is that eq head bump

Anamod ATS-1 for that tape sound (get the optional cards---a necessity).

Done.

(I have all, except the 5042).

[fingerbeats]

Looks like the Sound Skulptor sts may be a lil gem!
Especially for the price.

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by fingerbeats

Looks like the Sound Skulptor sts may be a lil gem!
Especially for the price.

From the description it seems more like a portico clone-ish.

I listened to the clips just through computer speakers....I heard some compression, head bump, maybe some tranny-like saturation, but no tape saturation, which is the magic part IMO. Quite obvious with the transients.

So, it seems to sound like the portico too, which doesn't do the tape sound effect IMO.

No for me.

[baskervils]

An actual tape machine is REALLY cheap these days. You can get a 2 or 4 track for around $200, which is cheaper than most plug ins.

[superjimmer]

which 2/4 track tape machines are you referring to? Tascam, etc.??

[baskervils]

Originally Posted by superjimmer

which 2/4 track tape machines are you referring to? Tascam, etc.??

Teacs and Akai's mainly.... tons on eBay. You can get them for even less on Craigslist.

I purchased an Otari MTR-10 2 weeks ago from a fellow Gearslutter for $399

[GearHunter]

Originally Posted by baskervils

An actual tape machine is REALLY cheap these days. You can get a 2 or 4 track for around $200, which is cheaper than most plug ins.

Yes, BUT, as I have said many times -- nothing sounds better than a well-calibrated tape machine, and nothing sounds WORSE than one that isn't. These machines tend to be whacked-out, used-to-death, low-speed recorders with worn-out heads, etc. Many were radio-station production machines that were abused beyond belief.

And in any case, are you prepared to get a head-report, relap the heads if needed, buy a test-tape, service, align and bias the machine and get it totally dialed in? Do you have a head-degausser? Cleaner? Alignment tape? Splicing block? Leader tape? Editing tape? Do you have, um, blank recording tape? It still costs kind of alot. Do you know HOW to bias a machine? Do you have the patience for the extra work of mixing to a tape deck?

No matter how you look at it, getting a tape machine is a commitment. I don't care how cheap it is. People go out and buy these machines thinking they're going to get that great tape sound, and they often end up disappointed. This is going to make my stuff sound world-class! BZZZ. Maybe, but probably not. Unless you dig in and do it right, then yes, you will be very pleased with the results -- can't beat it!