Which 20-bit high-end mastering class converters ?

[GYang]

For older project recorded in 20/48 format I need top quality 20-bit converters.
Any suggestions from experienced users?

[Lagerfeldt]

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but you don't need a 20 bit converter.

[GYang]

I don't have experience with that. My first digital setup was 24/96, although I work mostly in 24/48, so I never converted anything to or from 20-bit.
Also, as I have some older reverbs that work at 20 bit, so I consider that top quality 20-bit converters should be well addition, too.

[lemix]

What Lagerfeldt was mentioning to you is correct.
All your 24bit systems will happily take a 20bit digital stream. We all dump 16bit audio this way often.
However, you'll likely have issues going the other way; 24bit digital > 20bit digital.
If this are only for FX sends/returns...I'd say you are probably OK with a little truncation.
For mixing/mastering, etc...NO.
FWIW, I still use a 20bit Studer D-19 daily, recording to 24bit sessions.

best luck,

[GYang]

Originally Posted by lemix

What Lagerfeldt
FWIW, I still use a 20bit Studer D-19 daily, recording to 24bit sessions.

best luck,

Thanks for opinion.
It means that you use 20-bit converters in normal 24-bit project?
That's what I heard several time from engineers, although I don't have any clue why it should be preferred.
My second point was that I have some analogue submixes that would need 20-bit processing of older effects (that have digital I/Os and dead converters), so I don't think that pushing 24-bit signal to 20-bit engine is right idea.

[klaukholm]

Any of the top 24 bit converters are capable of operating in 20 bit.

[GYang]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

Any of the top 24 bit converters are capable of operating in 20 bit.

Should be right.
I just looked at Rosetta AD side that has no such option, but on Lavry Blue module I found it (16-20-24 bit), so seems Lavry Blue would be just fine for the task.

[Lagerfeldt]

I think you're missing the point.

[Ruudman]

Use a 24 converter, and you're OK.
If you now feel that more questions regarding bits/converters keep popping up in your head, snap them with your fingers



ruudman

[Knosch]

If you want high performance 20Bit AKM converters:

look at the Soundscape (now owned by SSL) SS8IO-3 or now called IBOX 8-Line converters. Very cheap very good sounding (8 channel 20 bit max 48 kHz) AD/DA converters.
Much better sounding then even some high price 24 bit converters.

Price her in europe is 175 Euros, which is 223 US$ or 28 US$ per channel.

But you need TDIF I/O !!!

Otherwise a fantastic product. I have 2 of them to load in old analog recordings from different sources but also to connect some analog outboard stuff.

br
knosch

[jhg]

GML HRT9300-H

Very nice sounding 20 bit converter.

[GYang]

Originally Posted by Knosch

If you want high performance 20Bit AKM converters:

look at the Soundscape (now owned by SSL) SS8IO-3 or now called IBOX 8-Line converters. Very cheap very good sounding (8 channel 20 bit max 48 kHz) AD/DA converters.
Much better sounding then even some high price 24 bit converters.

Price her in europe is 175 Euros, which is 223 US$ or 28 US$ per channel.

But you need TDIF I/O !!!

Otherwise a fantastic product. I have 2 of them to load in old analog recordings from different sources but also to connect some analog outboard stuff.

br
knosch

I bet that was what I wanted to hear.
Some engineers I know, also, swear by their 20-bit converters.
Thanks.

As I sometimes need several channels of 20-bit analog to digital conversion for old effect boxes, it seems beyond rationale to use 24-bit ADC for that. I guess that 24-bit DAC is no problem with 20-bit digital stream.

[Snatchman]

(SOT)....So...what exactly is the bit rate that is equivalent to 2" tape frequency response? ( 20..24..etc.). I've heard this mentioned sometime ago but forgot which. Would a 20 bit machine give sonic results ( I know this depends greatly on the analog sections to reproduce it, but I mean capturing the signal), similiar to 2" tape? Reason: I have a chance to get a couple of 20 bit machine at a good price!.. ... Thanks..!..

[GYang]

Originally Posted by Snatchman

(SOTWould a 20 bit machine give sonic results ( I know this depends greatly on the analog sections to reproduce it, but I mean capturing the signal), similiar to 2" tape?

Dunno about that, but guy with Apogee DA2000 will give me this piece to listen myself, he said it's more pleasant sonically than any newer Apogee (despite lower dynamic range or higher noise floor).
I'll investigate this, might happen that 20-bit converters are not so dead as it could seems.
Also when I heard TC Electronics (I think 2290) old digital delay&effect via its converters it sounded so great (actually better than I expected) that I can't resist purchase.
Is that kind of vintage digital nostalgia?

[lemix]

[QUOTE=GYang]Thanks for opinion.
It means that you use 20-bit converters in normal 24-bit project?
That's what I heard several time from engineers, although I don't have any clue why it should be preferred.
QUOTE]
Yep...
Because currently can not afford another box which would outperform my old one !
I have tried several, believe me..
Beside the converter chip design, filters and clocking circuit..there is an analog input section, which could make or brake the sound...IMHO

good luck,

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by GYang

For older project recorded in 20/48 format I need top quality 20-bit converters.
Any suggestions from experienced users?

For playback? In that case, a modern day 24 bit converter will do fine. It's only if you have to playback 24 bit material that you might be concerned about playing it through a 20 bit converter, but even that will be very subtle with the best made 20 bit converters with low monotonicity (good low level linearity).

For record? What is the project recorded onto that it's 20 bit?

BK