Clipping... but not sure.

RedWallStudio · 10th July 2006, 04:56 AM

I was tracking a band today and was having odd "drop outs" happening for an instant while I was recording.. but these "drop outs" didn't record. It also happened once during playback, but I couldn't get it to repeat in the same spot twice. Its like the whole Pro-tools system "stalls" for an instant and then kicks back on. Anyone have something similar like this happen.. or any ideas as to what is causing this? Here is my system configuration.

Pro-Tools LE 6.7 running on a Mac Mini OS-X 10.3.
Rosetta 800 connected via ADAT (the rosetta is also my clock)
All my analog is coming via external mic pre-s or my console.. so pro-tools is basically acting as a tape machine.

Also, the song I am tracking uses all 8 of my Rosettas AD/DAs and 4 of my pro-tools AD/DA's.

Lastly, it seems (and Im not 100% sure of this) that the "drop out" happens during heavy tom fills. The songs I have been tracking for this band have very very heavy double kick bass and extremely heavy handed bass guitar... but none of my PT meters are in the red... my gain structure seems to be fine.

Fingers crossed that someone else has run into this... thanks!

joeq · 10th July 2006, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWallStudio

I was tracking a band today and was having odd "drop outs" happening for an instant while I was recording.. but these "drop outs" didn't record.

can you clarify the double negative?

When you say the "drop outs didn't record" do you mean there is no recorded music in those spots or that you heard a drop-out during recording, but on playback the music was there in that spot?

Lynn Fuston · 10th July 2006, 06:34 AM

Losing clock sync can cause muting during playback, but would have serious consequences during record. They would be recorded and repeatable. So I'm clueless.

RedWallStudio · 10th July 2006, 06:34 AM

Sorry about the double negative.. kinda hard to explain.

I heard the drop outs (so did the whole band in their headphone mix... was very distracting) WHILE I was in record mode.. but it didn't print. So when I was playing back, the drop outs were no longer there. But, there was also an instant where the dropouts came back (in different random spots), but I cannot make it repeat in the same place twice.

Jay Kahrs · 10th July 2006, 08:52 AM

That's not clipping, something else is going on.

Loss of clock? Maybe some sorta memory thing within the computer or audio cards like a buffer that's 'catching up' to whatever signal is coming through the monitor section of the mixer section...

Did you try a reboot to clear out the system?

RedWallStudio · 10th July 2006, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

That's not clipping, something else is going on.

Loss of clock? Maybe some sorta memory thing within the computer or audio cards like a buffer that's 'catching up' to whatever signal is coming through the monitor section of the mixer section...

Did you try a reboot to clear out the system?

Yeah, I figured it wasn't clipping since it didn't print.. but didn't know what else to call it. As far as reboot, no... I didn't shut everything down and restart. The band was also having issues of their own (didn't know their material as well as they should have.. always fun) so I just never had a chance to do that... but I shut the whole works down last night at the end of the session... and will see what happens this morning.

I would think if it was loss of clock, I would instantly get a message. I accidentally pinched an Optical cable a while back and it instantly caused PT to revert to the the 002's clock and pop up an error message "External Clock Is Invalad, Reverting To Internal". So, I don't think its the clock.

Out of curiousity, how many tracks can I have record engaged at once on an 002 running on a Mac Mini without problems? I think this is the most I have had recording at one time (12). The most I've had at once before has been 8 or 9. But I guess that wouldn't explain why it happened on playback though...

lemix · 10th July 2006, 02:59 PM

RedWallStudio,
Assume you are using FW external disc.
The randomness of the problem you are experiencing could be caused by FW/PCI bandwidth or overly fragmented/close to full drive.
PT LE will record the 12 tracks at once, given a healthy and fast enough computer/hard drive configuration.

hope this helps,

RedWallStudio · 10th July 2006, 03:07 PM

Okay, I have a different fire-wire drive... I'll try that today. Thanks.. didn't think of that one!

Jay Kahrs · 10th July 2006, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWallStudio

Yeah, I figured it wasn't clipping since it didn't print.. but didn't know what else to call it. As far as reboot, no... I didn't shut everything down and restart. The band was also having issues of their own (didn't know their material as well as they should have.. always fun) so I just never had a chance to do that... but I shut the whole works down last night at the end of the session... and will see what happens this morning.

It's always a good idea to restart when the DAW starts burping. IME that clears up about 90% of whatever problems are happening. Tell the band to take a 5-10 minute 'smoke' break or cool off while you work through a 'tech' issue. You might even get bonus points from them if they're aware of the problem and try to fix it rather then coping...

Quote:

Out of curiousity, how many tracks can I have record engaged at once on an 002 running on a Mac Mini without problems? I think this is the most I have had recording at one time (12). The most I've had at once before has been 8 or 9. But I guess that wouldn't explain why it happened on playback though...

Depends on the computer, ram, sampling rates & all that jazz. Off hand I dunno...but i've been in situations with 16 tracks hitting a powerbook or G3 with a 001 or those little Motu firewire boxes & never had a problem.

Is your computer dedicated to audio or is it also doing internet duties? That'll fuk things up...if not at first, six months down the line things will start getting wonky. It doesn't matter if your running a Mac or PC, it's GOING to happen at some point.

The DAW in our shop is an island. Never been on the interknot...never will be either.

RedWallStudio · 10th July 2006, 10:32 PM

I believe the culprit to be a fragmented firewire drive. I copied all the files I needed off it, did a reformat, copied the files back... and it seems that all is well. Now if I can just get that last band to learn their material.

lemix · 10th July 2006, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWallStudio

I believe the culprit to be a fragmented firewire drive. I copied all the files I needed off it, did a reformat, copied the files back... and it seems that all is well. Now if I can just get that last band to learn their material.

I'm glad to hear...

As far as the band goes...
Try the hard way !

rock on..

RedWallStudio · 11th July 2006, 03:30 AM

That was it! Thanks All!

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10th July 2006, 04:56 AM	#1
RedWallStudio Lives for gear Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 605	Clipping... but not sure. I was tracking a band today and was having odd "drop outs" happening for an instant while I was recording.. but these "drop outs" didn't record. It also happened once during playback, but I couldn't get it to repeat in the same spot twice. Its like the whole Pro-tools system "stalls" for an instant and then kicks back on. Anyone have something similar like this happen.. or any ideas as to what is causing this? Here is my system configuration. Pro-Tools LE 6.7 running on a Mac Mini OS-X 10.3. Rosetta 800 connected via ADAT (the rosetta is also my clock) All my analog is coming via external mic pre-s or my console.. so pro-tools is basically acting as a tape machine. Also, the song I am tracking uses all 8 of my Rosettas AD/DAs and 4 of my pro-tools AD/DA's. Lastly, it seems (and Im not 100% sure of this) that the "drop out" happens during heavy tom fills. The songs I have been tracking for this band have very very heavy double kick bass and extremely heavy handed bass guitar... but none of my PT meters are in the red... my gain structure seems to be fine. Fingers crossed that someone else has run into this... thanks! __________________ "Are you men the police?" "No ma'am, we're musicians"

10th July 2006, 06:34 AM	#3
Lynn Fuston Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Spring Hill, TN, USA Posts: 1,742	Losing clock sync can cause muting during playback, but would have serious consequences during record. They would be recorded and repeatable. So I'm clueless. __________________ Lynn Fuston 3D Audio Inc. Host of 3dB Offering downloads of Preamp, Mic, DAW summing comparisons here.

10th July 2006, 06:34 AM	#4
RedWallStudio Lives for gear Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 605	Sorry about the double negative.. kinda hard to explain. I heard the drop outs (so did the whole band in their headphone mix... was very distracting) WHILE I was in record mode.. but it didn't print. So when I was playing back, the drop outs were no longer there. But, there was also an instant where the dropouts came back (in different random spots), but I cannot make it repeat in the same place twice. __________________ "Are you men the police?" "No ma'am, we're musicians"

10th July 2006, 02:59 PM	#7
lemix Gear maniac Join Date: May 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 213	RedWallStudio, Assume you are using FW external disc. The randomness of the problem you are experiencing could be caused by FW/PCI bandwidth or overly fragmented/close to full drive. PT LE will record the 12 tracks at once, given a healthy and fast enough computer/hard drive configuration. hope this helps, __________________ cheers... andrew

10th July 2006, 03:07 PM	#8
RedWallStudio Lives for gear Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 605	Okay, I have a different fire-wire drive... I'll try that today. Thanks.. didn't think of that one! __________________ "Are you men the police?" "No ma'am, we're musicians"

10th July 2006, 10:32 PM	#10
RedWallStudio Lives for gear Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 605	I believe the culprit to be a fragmented firewire drive. I copied all the files I needed off it, did a reformat, copied the files back... and it seems that all is well. Now if I can just get that last band to learn their material. __________________ "Are you men the police?" "No ma'am, we're musicians"

11th July 2006, 03:30 AM	#12
RedWallStudio Lives for gear Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 605	That was it! Thanks All! __________________ "Are you men the police?" "No ma'am, we're musicians"

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