dubbing from cheap 4 track to high end digital - use DI's?

AdamJay · 10th July 2006

In a week i'll be working with a female singer/songwriter.
She's got about 13 songs that she recorded 4 track instrumentals to on her Fostex X12.

I haven't heard the tracks yet but i can't imagine the old recordings will be fantastic.

She wants to have them dumped to digital (i'll use a Lynx Aurora for A/D), where they'll be mixed and in a month we'll do vocal overdubs for the songs. The Fostex has just one pair of unbalanced RCA outputs, so i'll be dumping only 2 tracks at a time.
Of course the best way to get a quality songs in this situation would be to re-record the instrumental 4-tracks but she's still young with inhibitions. Prefers to do that stuff at home in privacy, so dubbing from the cassettes is really gonna be the only way to work in this situation.

anyways... my question:

Would you go through a pair of DI's to possibly help salvage the transition from a totally lo-fi medium to the high end? I was thinking Phoenix DRS DI's. Or is this a situation where perhaps its best to just get it as dry as possible and unharmed into the digital domain?

Also, would there be a better cassette deck out there that could read her 4 track std. audio cassettes that would give me a better analog output than the X12. Something i could possibly rent or borrow?

Sorry, i haven't used these little portastudio buggers since about '95.

Kiwiburger · 10th July 2006

Get the best sounding cassette player you can find. It doesn't have to be a four track. You can record tracks 3 & 4 backwards, and flip them in your DAW. You are going to be manually aligning them anyway, by the sound of it.

Of course, due to head alignment & stuff, you may find her 4 track sounds the best anyway.

Embrace the lofi - it is what it is, and you converters and DI aren't going to make much difference here. I believe your Lynx can handle -10 line level - I guess that implies it can cope with unbalanced signals? I would only use a DI box if you really have to.

BBE was great for salvaging cassette tape tracks - you wouldn't have one lying around?

Kiwiburger · 10th July 2006

Depends if there is any leakage between tracks (ok - it's a cheap cassette, there will be some crosstalk).

But it's likely this could only record two tracks at once - so there should be minimal flanging between the two passes. A little vibrato, certainly - but that's the magic of tape.

lofi · 10th July 2006

use that same porta that was recorded on and capture all 4 tracks at the same time.. watch for proper gainstaging !!

Quote:

Embrace the lofi - it is what it is, and you converters and DI aren't going to make much difference here.
BBE was great for salvaging cassette tape tracks - you wouldn't have one lying around?

so true

AdamJay · 10th July 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by lofi

use that same porta that was recorded on and capture all 4 tracks at the same time.. watch for proper gainstaging !!

there are only 2 outputs... so i would not be able to capture them individually.
and the whole idea of the project is to be able to remix from the individual tracks.

AdamJay · 10th July 2006

looks like i'm just gonna buy a Tascam 414mkII from banjo mart a couple days before we dub, then return it after the session.

its got stereo outs plus 2 fx sends so i can dub all 4 tracks at once, and the singer doesn't mind paying the restock fee on the Tascam, considering her dubbing time just got cut in half

AdamJay · 18th July 2006

ack, well i got the 414mkII and it turns out the sends (that i am using to get outputs 3 and 4) are post fader.

so that means i can really only get 3 tracks dubbed bleed free, the 4th track will have some bleed from 2 other tracks in it. i'll try to gain stage to reduce the amount of bleed as much as i can. It should suffice for this products, she's only got a few songs that use all 4 tracks. most are 3 tracks.

but after i return this thing on Friday, i'm gonna buy a used 424 mkII with real dedicated individual outputs. they seem to go for about $100-$150 and if i am wanting to take on more poets and solo/singer/songwriters then its gonna be 4 track city for a while

thanks for the tips, Rufus and Kiwi.

10th July 2006	#1
AdamJay Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2005 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 2,825 Thread Starter	dubbing from cheap 4 track to high end digital - use DI's? In a week i'll be working with a female singer/songwriter. She's got about 13 songs that she recorded 4 track instrumentals to on her Fostex X12. I haven't heard the tracks yet but i can't imagine the old recordings will be fantastic. She wants to have them dumped to digital (i'll use a Lynx Aurora for A/D), where they'll be mixed and in a month we'll do vocal overdubs for the songs. The Fostex has just one pair of unbalanced RCA outputs, so i'll be dumping only 2 tracks at a time. Of course the best way to get a quality songs in this situation would be to re-record the instrumental 4-tracks but she's still young with inhibitions. Prefers to do that stuff at home in privacy, so dubbing from the cassettes is really gonna be the only way to work in this situation. anyways... my question: Would you go through a pair of DI's to possibly help salvage the transition from a totally lo-fi medium to the high end? I was thinking Phoenix DRS DI's. Or is this a situation where perhaps its best to just get it as dry as possible and unharmed into the digital domain? Also, would there be a better cassette deck out there that could read her 4 track std. audio cassettes that would give me a better analog output than the X12. Something i could possibly rent or borrow? Sorry, i haven't used these little portastudio buggers since about '95. __________________

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10th July 2006	#2
Kiwiburger Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,075	Get the best sounding cassette player you can find. It doesn't have to be a four track. You can record tracks 3 & 4 backwards, and flip them in your DAW. You are going to be manually aligning them anyway, by the sound of it. Of course, due to head alignment & stuff, you may find her 4 track sounds the best anyway. Embrace the lofi - it is what it is, and you converters and DI aren't going to make much difference here. I believe your Lynx can handle -10 line level - I guess that implies it can cope with unbalanced signals? I would only use a DI box if you really have to. BBE was great for salvaging cassette tape tracks - you wouldn't have one lying around?

18th July 2006	#7
AdamJay Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2005 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 2,825 Thread Starter	ack, well i got the 414mkII and it turns out the sends (that i am using to get outputs 3 and 4) are post fader. so that means i can really only get 3 tracks dubbed bleed free, the 4th track will have some bleed from 2 other tracks in it. i'll try to gain stage to reduce the amount of bleed as much as i can. It should suffice for this products, she's only got a few songs that use all 4 tracks. most are 3 tracks. but after i return this thing on Friday, i'm gonna buy a used 424 mkII with real dedicated individual outputs. they seem to go for about $100-$150 and if i am wanting to take on more poets and solo/singer/songwriters then its gonna be 4 track city for a while thanks for the tips, Rufus and Kiwi.