Building First Serious Studio

[bradyvickers]

Hey guys, new to the forum and have been browsing through the archives. Very impressed with everyone's knowledge. I have been recording for a few years, but only on budget systems, and im ready to make a bigger investment in my own gear. I've been researching gear for a few months now, and have come to some conclusions, but have a few questions for you guys. So far this is what i have come up for a main system. It seems like the trend these days is to use a digital system with a control surface instead of an analog console. And although I would love to have a console i think this is the route i am going to take.

Pro Tools HD1
Apogee Rosetta 800 192khz x2 with X-HD card
Apogee Big Ben
Apple Quad G5, 4gb ram, Glyph Audio Drives (this still isn't sitting well with me though, i keep thinking i should give pc a chance)

One of my big questions was if anyone had used the Digidesign Control 24's preamps? I like the control surface itself, but haven't heard the preamps. If they are usable it would be a good deal.... Otherwise i was thinking maybe a Mackie Universal control surface...anyone have any ideas for this?

The other big question is preamps. I am thinking API 3124, but everyone seems to like the Brent Averil ones? I would also like to a Great River MP-2NV, and maybe a few others for extra color.....

Basically im working with about a $40k gear budget, and any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Have a great day guys, and thanks for any responses in advance.

Brady Vickers

[Greg Curtis]

Before you go out and buy good gear you need to have a great recording space. Where do you record?

Greg

.

[not like this]

Environment > Gear

[thejook]

Do we have a time for that thread hijacking?

3 sec?

The ol' "it don't matter if the room isn't treated"!

Though seriously, I do agree with Dave and Greg that he should get that worked out before spending $40K, but how about some ideas on his question, guys?

Are you married to the idea of a DAW control surface? I ask because maybe you'd be able to put some $$ into a nice old broadcast console or something that could meet your needs for pres and make a really nice summing console. How much do Melbournes go for these days?

I got me a really cool Chilton broadcast console, and for something like $750...you could easily find something vibey I would think for your budget.

[Eric Greedy]

I would skip the Big Ben and Apogee and get an HD3 instead

[Eric Greedy]

I would skip the Big Ben and Apogee and get an HD3 instead and some more pre-amps, and couple analog EQ's and at least one 1176
Also. Forget the Glyph. Way overpriced. Look at ESQuest firewiredrives instead.

[thejook]

Originally Posted by Eric Greedy

I would skip the Big Ben and Apogee and get an HD3 instead

Eek! Gotta disagree, my friend. HD3 will be worth its weight in plastic in a few years, whatever great pres and outboard he gets will serve him till his dying day.

16 ins and outs seems to be enough for most, and whatever lack of plugin power you'll be having should be well compensated for by the really great rack of well-crafted outboard you'll have.

Think about it. Investment.

[Eric Greedy]

Originally Posted by thejook

Eek! Gotta disagree, my friend. HD3 will be worth its weight in plastic in a few years, whatever great pres and outboard he gets will serve him till his dying day.

16 ins and outs seems to be enough for most, and whatever lack of plugin power you'll be having should be well compensated for by the really great rack of well-crafted outboard you'll have.

Think about it. Investment.

uhh, The outboard that "counts" is the mics, pre's, EQ's and comps (notice i said get more of them). None of that will make a much bigger difference than the % of difference between the Apogee vs. HD. Then he says he will mix in the box..therefore more power will count. And buying audio gear for an "investment" is a secondary issue at best. Making the right choices for your needs is more important.

[bradyvickers]

After looking at it a little more, i think maybe an HD2 or HD3 would be good for me. But as far as the converters i've heard from multiple people that the Apogees make a noticeable improvement. I haven't heard them myself, and have no way to demo them....so what do you guys think as far as the Rosetta 800 with Big Ben versus the Digi 192 I/O? Also what about using the Big Ben with the Digi 192 I/O, has anyone heard this combo?

Sorry after, doing some forum searching, i see this topic has been throughly covered......

[Guidotoons]

Buy real estate instead.

D'oh!

Guido

[Guidotoons]

Sorry...couldn't help myself....

I'd agree regarding the outboard gear.Buy quality stuff that will retain its value.

As for the rig... man, I hate mixing without some type of analog buss. But, I'm old and cranky!

And don't bother with the Rosetta if'n yer gonna get the Big Ben to clock yer 192's. I use it with my 192's and it sounds great. A marked improvement from before.

Guido

[AdamJay]

i wouldn't bother with the Rosetta / Big Ben combo.
you're getting 16 channels right?

so get the AD-16x and DA-16x. The Big Ben clock is inside those, and it will be cheaper in the end and better quality. takes the X-HD just like the Rosetta does too.

Originally Posted by bradyvickers

After looking at it a little more, i think maybe an HD2 or HD3 would be good for me. But as far as the converters i've heard from multiple people that the Apogees make a noticeable improvement. I haven't heard them myself, and have no way to demo them....so what do you guys think as far as the Rosetta 800 with Big Ben versus the Digi 192 I/O? Also what about using the Big Ben with the Digi 192 I/O, has anyone heard this combo?

Sorry after, doing some forum searching, i see this topic has been throughly covered......

First of all, there is no guarantee that the Apogee stuff will be supported by Digi.
Second, you will spend 4x the money to get as much I/O as you would have with 192s.
Third, there is a huge truck load of BS about Digi convertors vs Apogee. The differences are not worth the money IMO. There is a difference, whether it is good or not is personal preferance. Personally, I have never cared for Apogees.
Massenberg has the money and connections to use whatever he wants. He is using 192s.

[True North]

I would seriously consider the Lynx Aurora convertors.

http://lynxstudio.com/pr20060620.html

They are now compatible with PT-HD (check out the above link)

They 'sound' great (I have also owned a Rosetta 800)

16 A/D/A will cost you under $3000

AND

Unlike the Apogee's they have Automatic Delay Compensation built in (no manual adjustments).


AND

The Aurora has an excellant clock already built in (SynchroLock) which has a better jitter rating than Big Ben!!


To me it's an absolute no brainer - they are an incredible value

Oh yeah - take the extra $$$ and buy some nice outboard gear - you can use it in conjunction with the Aurora 16 and not have to make any delay compensation adjustments

[raal]

Originally Posted by Lowdbrent

Massenberg has the money and connections to use whatever he wants. He is using 192s.

alot of people with money and connections have chosen apogee and/or other fine converters, or not. so i don't know what that has to do with anything, but just to add to the confusion, here's my take:

does 16X sound better than 192s? hell yeah. can you make a good record with 192s? hell yeah.

be aware that with ADC if you get apogees and want to insert outboard gear, you'll have to nudge manually. can be done but it's obviously easier to just do ADC with the 192s. someone talked about a big ben with 192s. that could be a decent alternative. imo 192s improve noticeably with BB. with rossetta or 16X you don't need the big ben.

if you're in a position to be able to demo 192s and apogees, do that, and then decide. the question is, if the difference in sound is worth it to you.

FWIW i'm getting my 192s' analog stage modded. with some luck they'll sound as good as the 16X when synced to their clock, but this will be an experiment, so for now i don't suggest that, and i'd assume i'll be losing the warranty by doing this.

as to preamps, there's nothing wrong with the ones you've mentioned, but if budget permits and i were buying my 1st serious pres, my suggestion would be to hunt around for some good vintage pres (API 312, Neve 1272, etc., whatever your inclination) first. these things are more likely to hold their value ( + they sound great). if time or budget are tight BA or GR are also fine pres, no doubt.

oh. i agree that glyph isn't worth the bucks. good luck on your new venture!

[Diablo]

Go with the 192's. They can be had for less than the Lynx or the Apogee's and they sound great and work seamlessly through all Digi software upgrades. There's none of the ADC tomfoolerly to mess with and non of this Apogee "digital outs are really analog outs" stuff. Also, I absolutely hate the Apogee upgrade with a midi cable crap. And while they may sound a tad different, to me it's oranges and apples. I can't comment on the Aurora because I have never used it, but I remember a recent thread where many people prefered the sound of the Lynx over Apogee in a blind test.

I use a single 192 for 16 analog ins and 8 analog outs (though not at the same time) which is plenty for my home studio.

Get at least a HD2 so you have a little more power to mix in the box.

I use a C24 and the pre's are decent, not my first choice, but they work if you run out of other pre's. You can't go wrong with a 3124.