Harsh and sibilant ear splitting sounds that get revealed at high volumes.

[ray_subsonic]

Let me also assure you that Bad Sound in Clubs is 100% in the hands of the DJ's .. Most of whom are utterly F**king Stupid when it comes to understanding sound systems (It should be part of the job description).

Then again, Ask me what I really think ..

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by latestflavor

so just to clarify, the issue is that a brute loud club soundsystem in a shitty environment at loud levels sounds like crap? not on proper monitors or regular speakers?

if so maybe we should re-title the thread as: how to mix for shrill earsplitting peaky club playback systems?

btw, is it any club in particular, possibly one with a deaf owner that has an unfortunate hearing problem who cranks the eq to compensate?

because my gut feeling is the club or the owner needs to change, not the other way around.

Thank you for putting words in my mouth , that's very constructive and seriously helpful thanks for your valuable time cheerz

you sound like a great mixing engineer ... if your mix sucks while some other mixes still sound nice even in the shitty PA systems , blame the system or the owner right ? lol

extremely brilliant people on this site lol

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by ray_subsonic

Let me also assure you that Bad Sound in Clubs is 100% in the hands of the DJ's .. Most of whom are utterly F**king Stupid when it comes to understanding sound systems (It should be part of the job description).

Then again, Ask me what I really think ..

That's utter non sense , but ok if that made you happy

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by Andrew Kinsey

You are using two different pairs of pretty good monitors there, yet i hear what your saying and on first thought i would say it may not actually be the monitors that are causing the problem here.

Control room acoustic issues, and speaker positioning can dull down the overall presentation in your room. Also the quality of your DA converter feeding the speakers can also make quite a difference and some will reveal flaws more than others.

If you are confident that your room is properly tuned, and you have good DA converters then and only then would i suggest looking for a different monitors, especially an upgarde to something like the ATC's.

A cheaper alternative may be a small set of Adams like the A5x or A7x, they have a harsher hi frequency presentation which may fill the gap your looking for.

I tested my speakers in my friend's mastering room as well , still nothing , i put my ears close to the tweeter , still smooth. My friend's ATC 150 monitor tells a different story though, yo uare very right about the ATC ... it's a serious beast ... but costs as much as a house and weigh like a little car :D

Hmmmm Adams ?? I will take a look at them there is another person as well who advised me this brand as well.

Thanks a lot for your advice mate!!


By the way don't you think that it's quite horrifying so find such hyped and famous speakers ...actually not revealing those flaws ?? If they don't reveal flaws , what's their jobs ?? looking good and being expensive ?

[msflsim]

Ok, so after listening to a few songs from the list (most of them from the 'harsh' list) here are my findings, IMHO of course.

Tiesto Sneaky Sound_System - I Will Be Here (Wolfgang Gartner remix) ...around 2:08 the singer employs lots of sss ss ssss ssss which don't sound good in the clubs. (what about the wide synth noise? that sounds a bit distracting! also when at 2:18 she says 'to be strong', the 'to' sounds piercing following by 'show resistance' which is even worse...)

Lionel Ritchie - Zoomin' ... harsh sounding and aggressive accentuated sibilances. (agreed! especially when he says Zoomin, sounds like hes saying Sooming. Bad mix if you ask me, all of the zoomins sound like soomins, very distracting.)

"Oasis" Morning glory album ... track one ... horrible sibilances and the track itself is very harsh and ear piercing. (agreed, it does sound uncomfortable and muddy almost like its distorting, weird. Can you check if when he is singing in the verses the sibilance is harsher on the left side? Also on further listening quite a few tracks on the album sound harsh! It tones down a bit by 'Wonderwall')

"Faithless - Crazy English Summer" ... aggressive SSSSSSSS (in this one the hi-mids bother me a bit in the begining, the rest is more or less ok, a bit too toppy but not as bad as some of other ones you listed)

neon indian - polish girl .... harsh all over (agreed, very fatiqueing sounding, not enyojable at all, sounds dirty/muddy?)

Lenny Kravitz - I Belong To You ... chorus sounds aggressive (agreed) -

Cardigans - Erase and rewind .... harsh at loud volumes (agreed)


Now for a few interesting facts and conclusion on my part:

Three albums/songs that you listed were released in 1998 (Lenny Kravitz - 5, Cardigans - Gran Turismo and Lionel Richie - Time)

The Oasis - Whats the story morning glory album was released in 1995
And the Faithless album in 2001

Now all of that might mean nothing but its curious how three of the ones i listened to were from 1998. Coincidence maybe? Timed with the release of a particular studio monitor model that was used then? Some of the more experienced guys might know the answer to that if there is one!

All of the listening was done on the K&H o300 (non D) with EQ for both speakers set flat in an far from ideal treated room, and i have to say that i heard things you are mentioning and more (see notes above)

Granted I have never heard any of the ATC's but the K&Hs did show me things that I would fix before calling it finished.

Oh and another thing the sascha funke mango track is quite different in mood and sound to the songs from the 'harsh' list. There is not that much going on, its very sparse and ambient compared to the rocky/grungy feel of some of the other tracks.

There is surely some preference to the way things sound based on the 'health' of the ears as well, ill explain: I play live music a couple of times a month and because of the exposure to sound, when I hear certain frequencies in the mid range, I cringe as it almost hurts my ears, which means my ears are sensitive to those frequencies because of some type of damage if you will.

Were you ever exposed to something like that that maybe made you 'hate' a certain frequency range?

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by alecsribet

Hi slutz, I have noticed that a lot of the harshness and ear piercing sounds , start to really poke out and get excited when you blast your speakers at deafening levels, but sound perfectly acceptable and innocent when mixing at low levels.

Those are the same gremlins that poke out on PA systems, monitors, home and car systems at rather loud levels.

Have you guys found a way to reveal those problems without needing to turn the speakers to the max ??

I haven't read all three pages of responses so I apologize if I'm reiterating what's already been said...

but fwiw, I find that the phenomenon you describe is very often an attribute of the speakers rather than the source material. iow, lots of speakers will get disproportionately "harsh" and "ear piercing" when you turn them up to "deafening levels" irrespective of what source material you're playing through them.

That's one of the tests I use for evaluating monitor systems: I have some reference mixes that I know really well, and I know, that, for example, the lead vocal on the chorus of track #2 can sound very screechy & piercing at loud levels on a less-than-wonderful speaker system. That's not necessarily something the original mix or mastering engineer could have, would have, or should have fixed; that's something that the original speaker designer might have considered.

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

I haven't read all three pages of responses so I apologize if I'm reiterating what's already been said...

but fwiw, I find that the phenomenon you describe is very often an attribute of the speakers rather than the source material. iow, lots of speakers will get disproportionately "harsh" and "ear piercing" when you turn them up to "deafening levels" irrespective of what source material you're playing through them.

That's one of the tests I use for evaluating monitor systems: I have some reference mixes that I know really well, and I know, that, for example, the lead vocal on the chorus of track #2 can sound very screechy & piercing at loud levels on a less-than-wonderful speaker system. That's not necessarily something the original mix or mastering engineer could have, would have, or should have fixed; that's something that the original speaker designer might have considered.

This my friend, is very true, BUT the beautiful and positive part of this is the that some tracks don't sound SCREEECHY even at very loud levels this is the phenomenon that made me thing that ... HEY SOME ENGINEERS MAYBE ARE NOT HEARING THOSE HARSH STUFF ... just like me with my monitors that soften everything.

If it was not about the mix ...then all the mixes would sound horrible on a certain sound system , but it's not true ... some tracks can sound loud, distinct and clear ...without sounding piercing.

Maybe it's the talent of the mix engineer + the monitor speakers that is actually letting him hear those anomalies , instead of speakers hiding or softening those problems.

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by msflsim

Ok, so after listening to a few songs from the list (most of them from the 'harsh' list) here are my findings, IMHO of course.

Tiesto Sneaky Sound_System - I Will Be Here (Wolfgang Gartner remix) ...around 2:08 the singer employs lots of sss ss ssss ssss which don't sound good in the clubs. (what about the wide synth noise? that sounds a bit distracting! also when at 2:18 she says 'to be strong', the 'to' sounds piercing following by 'show resistance' which is even worse...)

Lionel Ritchie - Zoomin' ... harsh sounding and aggressive accentuated sibilances. (agreed! especially when he says Zoomin, sounds like hes saying Sooming. Bad mix if you ask me, all of the zoomins sound like soomins, very distracting.)

"Oasis" Morning glory album ... track one ... horrible sibilances and the track itself is very harsh and ear piercing. (agreed, it does sound uncomfortable and muddy almost like its distorting, weird. Can you check if when he is singing in the verses the sibilance is harsher on the left side? Also on further listening quite a few tracks on the album sound harsh! It tones down a bit by 'Wonderwall')

"Faithless - Crazy English Summer" ... aggressive SSSSSSSS (in this one the hi-mids bother me a bit in the begining, the rest is more or less ok, a bit too toppy but not as bad as some of other ones you listed)

neon indian - polish girl .... harsh all over (agreed, very fatiqueing sounding, not enyojable at all, sounds dirty/muddy?)

Lenny Kravitz - I Belong To You ... chorus sounds aggressive (agreed) -

Cardigans - Erase and rewind .... harsh at loud volumes (agreed)


Now for a few interesting facts and conclusion on my part:

Three albums/songs that you listed were released in 1998 (Lenny Kravitz - 5, Cardigans - Gran Turismo and Lionel Richie - Time)

The Oasis - Whats the story morning glory album was released in 1995
And the Faithless album in 2001

Now all of that might mean nothing but its curious how three of the ones i listened to were from 1998. Coincidence maybe? Timed with the release of a particular studio monitor model that was used then? Some of the more experienced guys might know the answer to that if there is one!

All of the listening was done on the K&H o300 (non D) with EQ for both speakers set flat in an far from ideal treated room, and i have to say that i heard things you are mentioning and more (see notes above)

Granted I have never heard any of the ATC's but the K&Hs did show me things that I would fix before calling it finished.

Oh and another thing the sascha funke mango track is quite different in mood and sound to the songs from the 'harsh' list. There is not that much going on, its very sparse and ambient compared to the rocky/grungy feel of some of the other tracks.

There is surely some preference to the way things sound based on the 'health' of the ears as well, ill explain: I play live music a couple of times a month and because of the exposure to sound, when I hear certain frequencies in the mid range, I cringe as it almost hurts my ears, which means my ears are sensitive to those frequencies because of some type of damage if you will.

Were you ever exposed to something like that that maybe made you 'hate' a certain frequency range?

Thank you sir for your observations and participation

Now how did you hear them ?? is it in a HEY MAN THERE IS A PROBLEM HERE ??? or ... hey that's a bit harsh but ... can do.

What level were you listening to ?? Those anomalies don't sound PROBLEMATIC on my Focal Twins , but on the K&H , they don't really poke out at moderate and soft volumes , but are more revealing at very loud levels.

Can you hear the problems as problems , on moderate and soft levels ?

Actually the tracks :

(((((((((((Tiesto Sneaky Sound_System - I Will Be Here (Wolfgang Gartner remix) --HARSH

Spiritchaser - Not Far (Original Mix) ... harssshhh sounding

and the

Audiofly and paul harris-miscalate(original mix) --- sounds top notch at loud levels

Egbert - Open --- sounds top notch at loud levels))))))))))

can be played in the same set , same sort of energy and mood ... that's why I posted them here for the sake of same style comparison. They are fairly recent but still some have perfect control over the harshness.

I don't think that a professional engineer would leave so much harshness if he can actually hear it blatantly on his monitors.



You are right, my ears are extremely sensitive to harsh frequencies. As a DJ , I really hated the harsh sounding tracks because some tracks were hurting my ears ... and I could see people covering their ears or moving away from the floor ... maybe they don't know what's happening to them, but when you see the reaction of people , you know that it's not very pleasant for them neither.

My friend, what are your observations regarding the KnH monitors, would you consider them a tool to easily hear harsh flaws when mixing moderately ?? or would you qualify them as being speakers that slap you in the face when some c***p is poking out.

What are your observations regarding translation issues in the mid-hi mid register ??

Do you have a trick to hear those nasty things using your KnH ??


Thanks again sir

[sage691]

I think you should get yourself an old 10,000 watt Carvin PA system and do your mixing on that.

But then you might complain about how everything sounds lifeless and dull UNLESS it's played on a big club system at 110db spl.

Also, have you tried turning the hi eq on the Focals up to +3db ? If so and you still cannot hear harsh frequencies, then you may need to visit the ear doctor for testing.

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by sage691

Also, have you tried turning the hi eq on the Focals up to +3db ? If so and you still cannot hear harsh frequencies, then you may need to visit the ear doctor for testing.

This sounds utterly ignorant , why would I do such a non sense.

If u got nothing constructive to say, don't waste your time sir

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by poppsmagee

This.


I know a lot of those popular tracks. they aren;t what you are describing. your speakers are not representing very well it seems. A really good set of speakers will tell you everything you need to know. BArefootes seem to do this, but are on the smoother side of the upper mid situation. If you are used to NS 10s, Barefootes will seem very odd for a few weeks.

Exactly my friend, good monitor speakers should reveal those harsh crap in a mix !!!!

ATC, Barefoot , Adams, Unity are speakers that I really have to look into :O

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by poppsmagee

well I can't tell what is in jest and what is serious, so I'll just say a few things.


1. The idea of turning up the highs on the Focals is a good one IMO as they are weird in the low/low mids. I would do this to stop from going bonkers. Those speakers drive me bonkers.

2. Those mixes are NOT harsh. There is an issue with your monitoring chain or room. Or even positioning/Mounting, which I have realized of late can be a Night and Day situation.

I am currently playing around with isocoustics vs.Primacoustics foam. I'm still giving the ISOs a chance but I have to say that the upper mid range seems misrepresented somehow. They seem to bring out "harshness" for some reason. I may just prefer the prim foams. They are feeling more natural right now, but like I say, you have to give something a good chance.

3. Yes you should look into those other speakers.

Those are very harsh tracks , tested on many other systems , you've got a lot of problems in your speaker system or your speakers are not letting you hear the harshness.

If u're using focals , you won't hear the harshness... I don't hear harshness on mine.

Check it on some quality mastering facility or on some quality monitors+room , you'll be shocked.

[Rev. Eslam]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

I haven't read all three pages of responses so I apologize if I'm reiterating what's already been said...

but fwiw, I find that the phenomenon you describe is very often an attribute of the speakers rather than the source material. iow, lots of speakers will get disproportionately "harsh" and "ear piercing" when you turn them up to "deafening levels" irrespective of what source material you're playing through them.

That's one of the tests I use for evaluating monitor systems: I have some reference mixes that I know really well, and I know, that, for example, the lead vocal on the chorus of track #2 can sound very screechy & piercing at loud levels on a less-than-wonderful speaker system. That's not necessarily something the original mix or mastering engineer could have, would have, or should have fixed; that's something that the original speaker designer might have considered.

At last, the nail has been hit on the head!
It's called "distortion".

[ray_subsonic]

If you put your head close to the tweeters, then you will hear the harshness ..

Originally Posted by poppsmagee

I would do this to stop from going bonkers ... Yes you should look into those other speakers.

Deeply.

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by Rev. Eslam

At last, the nail has been hit on the head!
It's called "distortion".

Yups but it's strange how some engineers manage to create mixes that resist the distortions way better though.

[ray_subsonic]

Originally Posted by alecsribet

Yups but it's strange how some engineers manage to create mixes that resist the distortions way better though.

Resist the distortions .. A good name for a Punk band ?

[ray_subsonic]

Alec, are you still a Club DJ ?

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by ray_subsonic

If you put your head close to the tweeters, then you will hear the harshness .. Deeply.

Try it with the Focal twins and tell me if you hear any harshness

[Doc Mixwell]

With all respect,

I have heard and corrected "harsh, ear splitting frequencies" with every focal monitor I have done work with, at some point. Either by changing a mic, a technique, a process or processor. They are not farting magic fairy dust in my face, and telling me I am the man, but I would agree they are fun to turn up and play loud. The Twins go really loud and if you produce that way you should check your method, in my view.

I own a pair of CMS50's and if the audio is harsh on them, its harsh everywhere. I don't have these problems in my studio. Though I don't use any speaker AT EAR SPLITTING LEVELS, which I am SURE THEY WILL SOUND HARSH to me, personally. These speakers go perfectly loud for me, for what they are, and I don't like listening to them loud. I listen on comfortable volumes to work. I can easily tell about the treble and how it should be molded and shaped.

I simply do not care about listening at ear splitting levels, that seems really counter productive to me. I have already suffered hearing damage from engineers that I have worked for in the past. When things are louder, everything becomes more even to my ear, therefor false assumptions are made about the balance.

I am not trying to degrade your opinion, but I simply don't have the same experience using these monitors. Certainly, speakers are incredibly personal choices that we can make for ourselves. They drive us to a result and push us in directions. You simply have to get a pair of speakers that push you in the right directions and move forward with them.

[sage691]

Originally Posted by alecsribet

Try it with the Focal twins and tell me if you hear any harshness

Some of your comments simply don't make any sense and are contradictory to say the least. If you feel that the Focal Twins are too mellow and fail to reveal harsh frequencies adequately, then you could only benefit by turning the treble all the way up to +3db; that is exactly what that feature on those monitors is for BTW.

So if you turned that up to +3db and then cranked those speakers, and you still feel that they mask harsh/sibilant frequencies, I would still recommend a visit to the ear doctor. Why ? Because in my room with the treble control turned up to +3db and the Twins cranked, harsh frequencies are so harsh that you might find blood squirting out of your ears if you are not careful !

And BTW, I have a pair of JBL LSR32s (powered by a beefy 2000 watt amp) pretty much for the exclusive purpose of trying to mimmick the "club experience" with my mixes. When these are cranked to ear splitting "club" volumes truly GREAT mixes (CLA, Tchad Blake, Andy Wallace, etc) will literally rip your head off. And if you tried to soften up your mixes based upon this, then you will end up with dull and lifeless sounding mixes on Ipods, boom boxes, cars, etc. The JBLs will actually tend to make a top notch modern pop/rock mix sound too harsh or too extreme in the upper mids and highs, when in truth that is really NOT the case !!!!!!!

This is why I have FIVE sets of monitors to mix on that all have a purpose in delivering the final result.

[Musiclab]

The one thing I find is cranking up the monitors on a vocal up will tell you what's happening with both the level and what you might need to do with the eq. When a vocal is too loud, and you crank your monitors it can hurt.

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell

With all respect,

I have heard and corrected "harsh, ear splitting frequencies" with every focal monitor I have done work with, at some point. Either by changing a mic, a technique, a process or processor. They are not farting magic fairy dust in my face, and telling me I am the man, but I would agree they are fun to turn up and play loud. The Twins go really loud and if you produce that way you should check your method, in my view.

I own a pair of CMS50's and if the audio is harsh on them, its harsh everywhere. I don't have these problems in my studio. Though I don't use any speaker AT EAR SPLITTING LEVELS, which I am SURE THEY WILL SOUND HARSH to me, personally. These speakers go perfectly loud for me, for what they are, and I don't like listening to them loud. I listen on comfortable volumes to work. I can easily tell about the treble and how it should be molded and shaped.

I simply do not care about listening at ear splitting levels, that seems really counter productive to me. I have already suffered hearing damage from engineers that I have worked for in the past. When things are louder, everything becomes more even to my ear, therefor false assumptions are made about the balance.

I am not trying to degrade your opinion, but I simply don't have the same experience using these monitors. Certainly, speakers are incredibly personal choices that we can make for ourselves. They drive us to a result and push us in directions. You simply have to get a pair of speakers that push you in the right directions and move forward with them.

I'm very happy if you can find those mistakes on your systems, at soft levels

Try to check your mixes on very loud PA systems or when playing very loud on car or home audio systems

So you will check how people hear your mix when they play it in the clubs or on their home audio/car systems and see if it's harsh or not

If you read my post well u'd understand what I mean. "I never talked about monitoring at ear splitting levels all the time"

U're a bit off topic sir.

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by sage691

Some of your comments simply don't make any sense and are contradictory to say the least. If you feel that the Focal Twins are too mellow and fail to reveal harsh frequencies adequately, then you could only benefit by turning the treble all the way up to +3db; that is exactly what that feature on those monitors is for BTW.

Are you realizing what you are talking about ?? Turning the treble all the way up to +3 ?? LOL

I never said that my monitors were not bright enough ... they are set to flat and are natural ...

It is just that they don't show harshness and ear piercing frequencies... they tend to smooth things up.

On speakers like ATC , the sound is natural(set to flat) + the speakers clearly SHOW flaws regarding harsh and ear piercing sounds and present them as AN ERROR!! ... showing mistakes is what a pro-monitor speaker should do right ?? :O

Originally Posted by sage691

When these are cranked to ear splitting "club" volumes truly GREAT mixes (CLA, Tchad Blake, Andy Wallace, etc) will literally rip your head off.

I don't call those guys GREAT anymore cause their mixes are ****IN HARSH at loud levels!! A REALLY good mix sounds good at all levels!!

Originally Posted by sage691

And if you tried to soften up your mixes based upon this, then you will end up with dull and lifeless sounding mixes on Ipods, boom boxes, cars, etc. The JBLs will actually tend to make a top notch modern pop/rock mix sound too harsh or too extreme in the upper mids and highs, when in truth that is really NOT the case !!!!!!!

No sir IT IS possible to have bright and exciting mixes and still make it sound bright and clear and exciting at all levels ...NO HARSHNESS AND EAR PIERCING CRAP

Some of the great dance mixers can do it perfectly and some of the big name pop mixers can do it as well !!!!


Those are the people that I really respect ... mixes sound amazing at low levels , and amazing at super loud levels as well. THAT'S HARD WORK and talent.

Try those track at loud levels and at soft levels

Variety Lab - I Can`t Help Thinking About You

Audiofly and Paul Harris - Miscalate(original mix)




I really don't understand how you could call something great ... it it only sounds good on moderate levels.

It's like calling a car great cause it feels nice at low speeds 10Mph and start to shudder and vibrate all over the place on the high way at 50 Mph

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

The one thing I find is cranking up the monitors on a vocal up will tell you what's happening with both the level and what you might need to do with the eq. When a vocal is too loud, and you crank your monitors it can hurt.

True my friend but the problem is , when listening to the whole track to find out the offending and hurting frequencies ... after some time it can ruin your hearing ability don't you think ?

I would love to have some guy inventing some speaker that could show those aggressive stuff , even when monitoring at low volumes.

God please hear me, for the sake of helping my fellow engineer friends and me lol

[Doc Mixwell]

Well then,

good luck with your "harsh and sibilant ear splitting sounds that get revealed at high-volume's" thread

[dandeurloo]

I think a large number of speakers show these harsh sounds. I had BM5a's and they clearly showed them. The SE Eggs I have show them clearly as well. Heck I even occasionally can find them on the 10 dollar headphone desktop speakers that UBK suggested in another thread (thanks for that BTW!).

I think a lot of people just don't hear them. In fact I asked a multi grammy award winning Mixer (who no longer post here) about this and he said he never gets tracks that have them. I find that really hard to believe. So either he can't hear them or his massive amounts of outboard eat them for lunch. Not sure which one.

I do think if you are using Tape that will eat some of them for lunch so that could be it but obviously not everyone does because we hear them all the time. Heck, I heard massive amounts of this recently on a record that was getting spun on the local Pop Country station. It was super clear to hear the RINGING!!!!

Not sure if this helps at all. But you could check out the Eggs or even the BM5A's because they both show them clearly.

[Rev. Eslam]

Originally Posted by poppsmagee

no man..they are not overly harsh. Your situation is skewed. My listening situation is better very good.

In what way is your "situation" better?
BTW welcome to the Gearslutz forum sir!

[latestflavor]

Originally Posted by ray_subsonic

Alec, are you still a Club DJ ?

ya think? he can't even tell you which freq range is of concern. and highly unlikely Fletcher–Munson. bass and treble baby, bass and treble.

if he wants to know the weakest link in sound and mixing, he may want to read Loudspeakers: For music recording and reproduction: Philip Newell,Keith Holland: 9780240520148: Amazon.com: Books because he's started a number of threads now, and its a very misunderstood subject (esp around here).

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by Rev. Eslam

In what way is your "situation" better?
BTW welcome to the Gearslutz forum sir!

Hahahha spot on !!!! :D funny people

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by dandeurloo

I think a large number of speakers show these harsh sounds. I had BM5a's and they clearly showed them. The SE Eggs I have show them clearly as well. Heck I even occasionally can find them on the 10 dollar headphone desktop speakers that UBK suggested in another thread (thanks for that BTW!).

I think a lot of people just don't hear them. In fact I asked a multi grammy award winning Mixer (who no longer post here) about this and he said he never gets tracks that have them. I find that really hard to believe. So either he can't hear them or his massive amounts of outboard eat them for lunch. Not sure which one.

I do think if you are using Tape that will eat some of them for lunch so that could be it but obviously not everyone does because we hear them all the time. Heck, I heard massive amounts of this recently on a record that was getting spun on the local Pop Country station. It was super clear to hear the RINGING!!!!

Not sure if this helps at all. But you could check out the Eggs or even the BM5A's because they both show them clearly.

A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T HEAR THEM INDEED AS YOU SAID!!!! Many big name engineers tailor tracks that sound horrible and very aggressive on loud volumes.

I am sure it's cause they simply cannot hear those harsh sounds. Mind you if it went for mastering and still got those mistakes, the mastering engineers as well can't hear those issues then ...

I hear tons of supposedly high quality engineering people on here that don't even care about this, which is very strange.

If big name mixing/mastering engineers allow for harsh recordings does it mean that every body should blindly follow like dumb sheep ??

Thank for your advice and observation man I will check the Dynaudio