Patchbay: Compromised Sound Quality?

[superjimmer]

Hey Guys,

Can anyone make recommendations about patchbay use. I have always had a small enough studio (outboard-gear-wise) that I kept high quality wiring between every piece and kept extra circuitry and wire connects to a minimum.

My new setup is going to require me to give up that luxury. So am I losing anything, sonically, by going to a patchbay?

Any recommendations for a clean signal path using patchbays?

thanks!!

- Jimmer

[David@MVS]

Originally Posted by superjimmer

So am I losing anything, sonically, by going to a patchbay?

Nope.

If the lines are unbalanced, keep the runs short and away from power lines.


Regards,
David

[narf]

I also have a small studio setup and have decided to get a patchbay to save myself some work and gear connection wear.

I'm on a tight budget and the following are the most affordable 48-point patchbays I've seen on ebay:

Re'an 48-point
AP Patchbay system 48-point
TEAC Tascam PB-32P 48-point
Behringer PX2000/PX3000 or any other Behringer patchbay 48-point
... any other ones?

These are all under $100, which is my price range. Do you guys have any recommendations as to which is OK to buy or which NOT to buy. Any other suggestions will be very helpful especially about which patch cables are reliable and if it's still important to keep everything trs (even if cables are short patch cables?).

thanks
Thanks.

[FatStudio]

I wouldn't buy a 2nd hand patch

[drBill]

There's no doubt that additional connections and patchbays are a (potential) weak link in the chain. My suggestions - do it right or don't do it. Switchcraft TT bays, and Mogami TT patchcables. The mogami cables do not oxidize and are well worth the extra cost. There are times when workability trumps audio purity. Patchbays are a prime example. A necessary degrading of the signal path that everyone loves (hates). PS - I prefer solder connections on the back, but man is that a LOOOOOOOOOOOT of work. Prepare to spend 20k+ for someone to wire a big console/tape machine/outboard studio with Mogami or similar. It's expensive, but you've got to do it.

[John Suitcase]

Does anyone make a digitally controlled patchbay? Not a digital patchbay, per se, but one with analogue connections, controlled digitally?

Just curious...

[narf]

so does anybody agree with the idea that used patchbays are a NO?

Remember, I'm not even in a real studio, I'm talking about getting the stuff in my room connected...though right now I connect stuff with high-quality mogami stuff. Yeah.. I don't have 20k or anything close to that. I wanted to spend less than $100

I'm still interested on what people have to say on the patchbays I mentioned, especially the behringers cause I'd be able to get one of those new. Oh, and also tell me about the patch cables (question in orginal thread)

Thanks

[jmikeperkins]

I agree with the comment that you should not buy used patchbays, especially inexpensive ones. Less expensive patchbays tend to go bad with repeated use, the metals oxidize over time and the cable tension can start to pull things apart after awhile. There are few things more frustrating than having your patch bay start to fall apart in the middle of a session as fixing it means you have to pull it out of the rack and repatch everything. In addition to the models mentioned above, Neutrik also makes a solid little 1/4" TRS patchbay for about $100. I got one of those from Guitar Center the other day and it works fine. Anything made by Switchcraft is GREAT but they are more expensive. Be sure to get a BALANCED TRS patch bay as you can also use unbalanced 1/4" on those. As far as patch cables, any professional quality balanced TRS ones will work fine, even the cheap HOSA ones from a Guitar Center are OK. They often come in packs of 12. If one goes bad you just throw it away. On a really short (less than 3') cable run, like a patch cable, you are not going to lose enough signal to make much of a difference between different brands. The big boys use TT patch bays and they are better and more durable, but they are a LOT more expensive.

J. Mike Perkins
jmikeperkins.com

[Rick Sutton]

I disagree about the evils of used patchbays. All cheap patchbays are suspect, either new or used.
But, QUALITY used patchbays are one of the best investments out there. I've picked up many TT patchbays (some never installed, although they were being sold as used, some used but in great condition) that are pennies on the dollar. I strip them back to the basics, clean them and solder on interfaces and have bays that would cost thousands of dollars to have someone else put together out of new parts and they cost me maybe 2-300 hundred total. I've used them for 20 or more years and they work perfectly.
Once you get used to soldering work it really is some of the easiest way to save big bucks in putting a studio together.

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by Rick Sutton

I disagree about the evils of used patchbays. All cheap patchbays are suspect, either new or used.
But, QUALITY used patchbays are one of the best investments out there. I've picked up many TT patchbays (some never installed, although they were being sold as used, some used but in great condition) that are pennies on the dollar. I strip them back to the basics, clean them and solder on interfaces and have bays that would cost thousands of dollars to have someone else put together out of new parts and they cost me maybe 2-300 hundred total. I've used them for 20 or more years and they work perfectly.
Once you get used to soldering work it really is some of the easiest way to save big bucks in putting a studio together.

RE: used patchbays

I've used quite a few used TT patchbays that I've had unsoldered, cleaned, and redone. Never had problems the past 8 years. But I am curious if doing that strips away any particular coating or such...? Does that affect quality? I don't think so but wonder if anyone with a technical background can confirm....?

[Johns]

Audio Accesories in New Hampshire also makes great bays.

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Johns

Audio Accesories in New Hampshire also makes great bays.

Yes. I got one of their 'Shorti' TT patchbays. They're VERY expensive but totally worth it. The 'Quick-Switch' normalling is very convenient.
I got mine from www.redco.com

Sure there are cheaper alternatives but I've waited long enough with my first patchbay purchase so that I thought I might as well get the best there is.

The patchbay is about the last place I would cut corners.

[steins]

Originally Posted by narf

I also have a small studio setup and have decided to get a patchbay to save myself some work and gear connection wear.

I'm on a tight budget and the following are the most affordable 48-point patchbays I've seen on ebay:

Re'an 48-point
AP Patchbay system 48-point
TEAC Tascam PB-32P 48-point
Behringer PX2000/PX3000 or any other Behringer patchbay 48-point
... any other ones?

These are all under $100, which is my price range. Do you guys have any recommendations as to which is OK to buy or which NOT to buy. Any other suggestions will be very helpful especially about which patch cables are reliable and if it's still important to keep everything trs (even if cables are short patch cables?).

thanks
Thanks.

I´d stay way from the Rean patchbays. I had 4 of those, and they were crap. Bad connections, broken prints....you name it. After 2 years of misery I threw them in the trash and bought a couple of Audio Accesories "shorti" patchbays. Been happy ever since.

Stein Tore

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

RE: used patchbays

I've used quite a few used TT patchbays that I've had unsoldered, cleaned, and redone. Never had problems the past 8 years. But I am curious if doing that strips away any particular coating or such...? Does that affect quality? I don't think so but wonder if anyone with a technical background can confirm....?

I really don't think so. To clean the contacts in either a used bay or a stock/factory installed one I was taught to do the following.
Put some Deoxit/Cramolin/your choice liquid on a lint free cloth(Texwipe) and clean the metal on a patch cable. Then insert the cable several times in the patch point. The residual cleaner is just right to get on the contacts without putting on so much as to gunk it up.
For the normalling contacts take a new, clean piece of copy paper and cut into small strips. Put contact cleaner on one end of a strip and pull the strip through the normalling points. The paper is abrasive enough to gently clean and the fluid gets lightly applied.
Try to never spray any thing into the bay, always apply any cleaner very sparingly.
That's how I handle it and have been using my bays for a long time without any problems. I also keep any horizontal bays covered at night so dust doesn't settle in to the patch holes.