AEA R44 in an imperfect room

[jono]

Well, the 44 ain't the world's most versatile vocal mic in the first place...if something else sounds better, why not use something else - particularly if your environment doesn't suit it?

[mc2600]

Jono,

Thanks for the reply.

I've tried the mic and I love it. It is a great fit me for (haven't found any better).

If I can find a way to tame that proximity effect in the room I have, that is absolutely my first choice. I'm hoping someone has some experience that can tell me whether it is even worth trying before I drop the coin and bring it home. :-)

If I can't make it work, I'll go to the AEA KU4. It still works for my voice. I don't love it as much (missing that amazing low end of the 44) ... but the pattern and reduced proximity effect would make it work easier in the space.

If someone has tried a 44 in a similar situation and hasn't been able to make it work b/c of the rumble being overwhelming, I'll avoid the step of buying and having to resell or return the mic (I've never returned a mic before, and I'd feel like crap making a vendor resell it as a demo --- especially since I'm biased towards smaller shops like ZenPro.)

Michael

[mc2600]

P.S. I completely understand that I won't 100% know until I have it in my room in my circumstances. But I'm hoping there is a tortured engineer out there who has tracked in a noisy cabin somewhere that sounded good in terms of reflections and room modes but had some ambient noise from A/C or a nearby highway. If that person tried and succeeded w/a 44 ... or failed ... in that kind of environment or one similar, it'd make me feel a lot better about buying (or not).

[jono]

To be honest, I've never had any luck with a figure of eight mic in a less-than-decent room for any application, other than mic'ing guitar cabs. I love love love the 44, but I do think it would be worth trying a Wunder or Lucas or Flea or Blackspade or something - for the price of that KU4 you can get a fantastic LDC that offers multiple patterns....you may want to try the Blackspade UM17r - not a ribbon but VERY smooth. I don't own one but had one here for a few days. Amazing mic for the dough. Of course, none of them look as cool as the 44... When people come to check my studio out before booking, they like to take pictures of the 44! Then they try it next to the Lucas/C12/U87/Brauner, etc....all but one chose the Lucas for vocals. If you're convinced that the 44 is the only way to go, then I'm sure you'll figure it out. I would NOT feel bad about trying mic's and sending them back however...if you can have them at the same time to try so much the better. It's the only way you'll really know...

[Doc Mixwell]

Agree with Jono, about just trying it out. Also really dig his suggestion on the UM17R. That and the 44CNE have been haunting my gear purchase dreams.

I can tell you we encourage this sort of thing at our shop. For sure we want to help you pick the right tools in the first place, and we want to help educate our clients to the fullest, at all costs, but you just gotta try it out in a project to see how it fits.

FWIW, AEA does have their own demo program to help! They are amazing people!! Wes, Renee, Julian and Crew are simply awesome to work with!

Check it out
http://www.ribbonmics.com/pdf/AEA_Na...mo_Program.pdf

I would say, there are a couple things to consider. How loud your performances are, and how well you can isolate the noise. If you have quieter performances, it may be harder to isolate. It may not matter that much if you take care with placement, perhaps a slight rumble filter [like the ones on the RPQ] could work magic and save the day. I would also try and use that side null, to your advantage.

The KU4 is also an amazing option here, and would help further the isolation for sure. You can always touch the bottom with a nice EQ. Depends how much of a purist you are. I would say the 44 is so special, that is doesn't matter, working with it, is all worth while to me. I love its thicker mid range and warm smooth top end. It has an amazing sound to me. The KU4, a hair leaner and more "finished", and tucked, but still in the same exact realm of possibility to me. And I would just use some slight boost on a Pultec, or something with some color.

[jono]

Ha! When I suggested trying them out, I was thinking of the time Mixwell was nice enough/silly enough to send me FOUR ribbon mic's to try - had em all for a week. Big rooms, small rooms, vocals, guitars, etc. etc. VERY helpful. Can't be done any other way...and years later, he also sold me my 44 in similar circumstances!

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by jono

Ha! When I suggested trying them out, I was thinking of the time Mixwell was nice enough/silly enough to send me FOUR ribbon mic's to try - had em all for a week. Big rooms, small rooms, vocals, guitars, etc. etc. VERY helpful. Can't be done any other way...and years later, he also sold me my 44 in similar circumstances!

Glad your digging your 44CNE Jono!





[and all that other kool stuff I am salivating over]

[julian.david]

Hi Michael,

The KU4 is quite different from the R44. It's not just the differences in polar pattern or the reduced proximity effect - you're also looking at different top end characteristics. It's construction is actually more similar to an RCA 77 than a 44.

If you love the R44 on your voice, but you're concerned with the proximity effect, you could consider the AEA RPQ or RPQ500 preamps which have the built-in low frequency roll-off that was specifically designed to reduce the proximity effect. If you don't care so much about the cosmetics of our museum-quality R44C, you could get the R44CE version plus a two-channel RPQ preamp for just a little less money than a KU4!

That all being said, if the LF rumble in your room is loud enough that it is an issue at close to medium distances, it will be a tough issue with basically any microphone.

Hope this helps!

Julian

Originally Posted by mc2600

Jono,

Thanks for the reply.

I've tried the mic and I love it. It is a great fit me for (haven't found any better).

If I can find a way to tame that proximity effect in the room I have, that is absolutely my first choice. I'm hoping someone has some experience that can tell me whether it is even worth trying before I drop the coin and bring it home. :-)

If I can't make it work, I'll go to the AEA KU4. It still works for my voice. I don't love it as much (missing that amazing low end of the 44) ... but the pattern and reduced proximity effect would make it work easier in the space.

If someone has tried a 44 in a similar situation and hasn't been able to make it work b/c of the rumble being overwhelming, I'll avoid the step of buying and having to resell or return the mic (I've never returned a mic before, and I'd feel like crap making a vendor resell it as a demo --- especially since I'm biased towards smaller shops like ZenPro.)

Michael

[nnajar]

do the AEA44's have the M and V switches or tbs that the old RCA's have?

[SoundUniverse]

I have a R44CE it is awesome! but not for every situation, but like the previous poster had suggested why not a pre with a built in high pass filter like my 5012!

[at4033]

FWIW, I use an R84 in a crappy sounding room (as in bedroom apartment crappy). In my experience, ribbons take EQ so well that I can usually - not always - overcome the impact of the figure-8 pattern. Very happy with the results on my Taylor and often my voice.

[julian.david]

Originally Posted by nnajar

do the AEA44's have the M and V switches or tbs that the old RCA's have?

No, the AEA 44s do not have any voicing switches.

Julian

[tomdarude]

I my experience, even though we´re talking low frequencies (omni radiation), this sort of low rumble of air cons CAN be minimized a bit with good placement... and the huge null of a figure 8 ribbon also can tame this sometimes.... plus as others said a good sounding low-cut will help as those mics take eq like nothing else!

...on a side note, (not saying this is your solution) IF you ever had been given this kind of recordings, a touch of multiband-expansion (using only the lowest band) can work wonders for this.


and lastly I concur with Julian: "if the LF rumble in your room is loud enough that it is an issue at close to medium distances, it will be a tough issue with basically any microphone."

He´s a damn fine engineer himself and has probably used the AEA mics more than 99% of us here, so I´d just ask him ;-))

[Matti]

I think fig. of 8 can be beneficial in many situations rejecting unwanted signals, even of bad acoustics, but low frequencies are all over the place because of their wave length.
Try hpf or notch filters if the acoustics cannot be altered and remember 8 is the opposite of an omni thinking of the proximity effect

Matti