How do I achieve classic country sound?

[rockum]

I've convinced several of my friends to help me record an album here in Miami on the cheap, one of those being a very good engineer, but I'd still appreciate your advice.

Although, my songs are almost all country they tend to be a bit quirky and out of the main-stream. The situation is aggravated by the fact that only the pedal steel player is primarily a country player. The guitarist, for example, is primarily a blues and surf man. Thirdly we are recording in Miami for gosh sakes...

To keep from drifting even further from the main-stream, I would really appreciate any advice and tips on getting both a classic country and modern country sound. Any info on the following would be really appreciated...

- Micing techniques
- Standard mixing practices
- Commonly used guitar, bass and vocal effects
- Pertinent web sites
- frequently used pieces of gear

I'm not just looking for recording basics, but rather specific techniques which give country music its characteristic sound. (I know that's a really broad request seeing the tremendous variety of sounds in the past 50 years of country music, but I'd still love to hear your advice)

Thanks, Rock

[Benjy King]

Every time I have recorded a 'country band'.....when the drummer played cross-stick on the snare someone in the band inevitably said, "Now that's country!". That and a hint of pedal steel, and you're at least speaking their language.

[dtobocman]

Ask the question at Lynn Fuston's forums....
http://www.3daudioinc.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

[rockum]

thank you for the link dtobocman and for the info Benjy and Randall. Randall I knew that a tele was the guitar of choice, but thanks for the amp and fx info. How about for bass?

some of these chicken pickers are nothing short of amazing

Ya ever heard of guy named Kenny Vaughn? Wow I heard him a couple of months ago when I was up your way. I about fainted he was so good.

[Paul Gold]

What about a tic tack bass and a high top guitar? Does anyone still use them?

[OKden]

Ya ever heard of guy named Kenny Vaughn? Wow I heard him a couple of months ago when I was up your way. I about fainted he was so good.

Absolutely. Kenny's great. He "plays for the record".

[rockum]

otherwise I go direct usually through a Joe Meek VC3

Hey that's cool it's one of the few pieces of gear I have!

Our first challenge is going to be finding a good spot to record the drums. If the room where I work is ok acoustically, I'll probably buy what I need to do it myself (ouch). If we can't do it ourselves, probably look for an inexpensive studio with a nice drum room somewhere in South Florida.

Absolutely. Kenny's great. He "plays for the record".

He was filling in for someone in The Don Kelly Band over at Robert's Western World and I heard 3 sets in which he flawlessly and seemingly effortlessly played some of the quickest and most musically sublime pasages I've ever heard. The bass player was pretty rockin' too for that matter...

[viaspiaggia]

hey rockum. i've mostly done country stuff in the context of "hey this tune needs to sound coutnry" as opposed to actually working on real country records, but i can share what i've learned:

- a guitar doing muted-plucking doubling of the bass line seems to help give it that country sound. that's an older country sound, certainly not nu-country, but it works for what it is.

- also for slightly more classic sounds, i've found a tape-delay type slap on the vocals goes a long way to saying "country."

- keep the arrangement relatively clean and clear - too much doubling and multing and "biggening" like you might do with rock just ruins the country feel, imho.

- and of course as others seem to be saying, the players are alot of it...

good luck - let us know how it turns out.

-adam-

[Bob Olhsson]

The players ARE almost all of it. What I've seen here is almost universal use of Fender Telecasters and Deluxe Reverb amps and little use of effects other than in the players' own racks and stomp boxes.

[rockum]

Well I found out that the room where I works well for recording drums, so I might record all this myself instead of going into someone else's studio... I was though about getting a True Systems Precision 8 for mic pres coupled with an Apogee 800 96k converter for 8 channels and then using my Yamaha 01v with ADAT which I already have for things which aren't of primary importance (scratch vocals and toms). Unfortunately I'll have to probably compress in DAW cause I'm running out of $ for the project. Does this sound like a pretty good setup?

Thanks,
Rock

[Dave Martin]

I hate to say this, but te ONLY way to get a classic country sound is to have great country players. If you don't have them, it won't sound like the classic country sound.

[Benjy King]

Originally posted by Dave Martin
I hate to say this, but te ONLY way to get a classic country sound is to have great country players. If you don't have them, it won't sound like the classic country sound.

Ahhh....truer words never spoken. I can't remember if I've told this here before.

In the late 80's when everyone was migrating to Nashville there was a songwriter here in New York City that would hire me to produce and record these demos for him that he would take to Nashville. I would hire these great players, write some charts, etc. and we would do what we believed to be our 'best country'. HA!!! Every single time he went to Nashville he was told the demos sounded like the "Rolling Stones doing country".

[rockum]

I hate to say this, but te ONLY way to get a classic country sound is to have great country players. If you don't have them, it won't sound like the classic country sound.

Well at least I have one... Neil Flanz has agreed to play pedal steel for me. He was one of the early masters of the instrument. He "wrote the book", literally and used to demo for sho-bud and emmons. Wish I could find a country bass player...

i listen to so much early and classic country, I can't see how it would not have sunk in by now.

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by Randall
we could talk about tacked pianos, high strung guitars, doghouse basses, one cymbal drum setups with marching snares, etc, but yeah, the true old school style players have a certain thing about the way the do their business that is hard to emulate if thats not your calling

Yep, but you know that it's not whatever trick of the week the players or the engineers are doing - it's the players. I remember doing a session with Pig a few years back in a new studio. They had a Yamaha C3 (OK but definitely NOT a 'real' grand piano), and because the studio had just opened, there was ONE Shure SM-57 available to mic it. And it sounded just like Pig always sounds...

At another session, the producer wanted me to play acoustic bass (I'd been playing electric all day). The engineer, Lou Bradley, walked into the room while I was getting the bass out of the case, grabbed the nearest mic while I was tuning (an awful Electrovoice PL-80 or 90 that had been used for a talkback mic all day) and set it down in fron of me without breaking stride. nothing in the way of mic choice or placement - he just grabbed the nearest one and stuck it more or les in front of my Juzek. it was far and away the best upright sound I'd gotten since buying the bass - I sounded like a cross between Bob Moore and Henry Strezleki. I asked Lou how he could get a sound that good with so little effort. Lou just said, "I know what an upright is SUPPOSED to sound like". Experience still counts for a lot...

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by rockum
Well at least I have one... Neil Flanz has agreed to play pedal steel for me. He was one of the early masters of the instrument. He "wrote the book", literally and used to demo for sho-bud and emmons. Wish I could find a country bass player...

Well, something COULD be worked out...

So Neil is in Miami? Cool - I met him once or twice in the early 80's, when he was playing with Joe Sun. We were talking about him the other day (while trading Bobby Bare stories), and wondered what had happened to him.

[Steve Smith]

not trying to speak for Dave, but how about sending some tracks up to Him ( Or another nashvillian) to add Bass, etc.. these guys could do this stuff in thoer sleep ( and Daves sounds are ok too... )