Rupert Neve 5088--eight channel board

[jordanvoth]

I think this would be a pleasure to work on. I work with rock bands so I would be submixing from the daw

1 - Kick
2 - Snare
3 - Drums L
4 - Drums R
5 - Bass
6 - GTR L
7 - GTR R
8 - Lead Vocal

possibly use a summing mixer for fx and extra nonsense.

24k isn't that bad, I'm sure it's an amazing sounding desk, I'd love one, but I do audio for fun and I'm not really a business owner. This would be a luxury sort of thing and I'd be totally content to drive a Honda and use this when I get home from my day job. What I'm really wondering is if API will ever make an 8 channel of their 1608 or if SSL will come up with a similar offering to studios looking for small format analog consoles. At 8 channels recall wouldn't be a big issue. I could definitely see myself shifting my priorities to get something like this. 24k is cheap for a console, but isn't cheap for day jobbers, for what it's worth, I get along very well with plugins, summing and hardware on the mix bus. I've never been happier with my output quality and I'm learning that the output quality is more related to the input quality from the song to instruments. So that would be another choice as to whether a 5088 would improve my work as opposed to 24k worth of different drums, guitars and amps but I could go on forever pondering this stuff. Either way, it's a brave new world. Cool stuff.

[AllBread]

Let's face it - if the point of our careers was to make the best hourly rate with the lowest overhead then we'd all be plumbers. Not every decision that we make is going to be about the bottom line - some of it is about the tone that we can hear but no one will pay for, personal workflow preferences, and enjoying the time we spend at our jobs.

If anyone is surprised that an 8 channel RND console isn't the best value in the industry then they have all sorts of surprises coming. Here's a few eceonomic trends that seem to apply to all industries:

1. Buying used is almost always a better value than buying new. Consoles, cards, watermelons and most every other thing that you can buy looses a substantial amount of its value the second it leaves the shop. There are many used 5088s out there but the rest of the RND line (and most audio gear) can usually be had for 60-70% of new prices buying used.

2. You get better value when buying in bulk. An 8 channel console is going to cost more per channel than a 32 channel console by the same designer.

3. People who have built a serious reputation usually get to charge more for their names than those who haven't. If anyone in audio can tack on an extra 10% (or more) on name alone it's Rupert Neve.

So, yes, a brand new 8 channel console from RND - is going to cost a whole hell of a lot more than a 20 year old Soundcraft - big freaking surprise! Kind of like how the $100 bottle of doesn't get you any more drunk than a ten dollar bottle of wine - the point isn't always to get drunk, but to enjoy the process.

As far as paying off a $50k 16 channel console - if it's a quality piece of kit that you can expect to run with very low upkeep costs for the next ten years (and hopefully much more) then were talking a 5k a year tax deductible expense. I would think that most that can make even $50k a year could stomach that expense.

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

Great post Allbread!
john

BTW: The getting drunk thing is the BEST analogy I have heard in all my life.

Why? Because getting drunk and mixing audio do have some parallels, as they both have the overall outcome of the next day.

Cheap, crap sounding gear...MAD DOG MD 20/20.

Nice smooth discrete console...a fine pure Vodka.

You end up with a headache the following day with subpar gear, as well as MD 20/20.

So to what level do you want to take it? All the way to the top to minimize these headaches, or somewhere in the middle, where the headaches are not so bad?

I'd prefer to get as close to NO hangover as possible myself.

If you know out of the box with no mods, and no d*cking around, the console will give you that if you spend the money, that is a good reason to get it.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by AllBread

Let's face it - if the point of our careers was to make the best hourly rate with the lowest overhead then we'd all be plumbers. Not every decision that we make is going to be about the bottom line - some of it is about the tone that we can hear but no one will pay for, personal workflow preferences, and enjoying the time we spend at our jobs.

Amen.

[Ward Pike]

Again I ask those who have had experience with both:

Neve 5088 or Neve Genesys?

Please give me some sort of answer if you can. Many thanks.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

It's still true, only audio "dudes" stress about audio minutia, the average person couldn't give a snot's ass. Go ask some if you don't belive me, just don't ask audio guys, but non audio people.

You've read nothing of what I've written or you've chosen to ignore it.

That's not a debate. You're just orating.

As a laymen, I don't know much about plumbing, but I choose a plumber who does.

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Ask those non audio people and they might ask you, "why are all these new records so hard to listen to?"

Have fun trying to answer that.

Maybe because we are not using tape and discrete consoles that cost 100k anymore?

IC's and zeros and ones.

I truly believe this is at least part of it. I also firmly believe you can have a GREAT song, and it can still be unlistenable if the audio is cold, hard, grating, and has no feel. Or the medium / media does not convey that feel.

People can say the songwriting was better, and that is the reason music was easier to listen to in past decades. But really? For everyone on the planet?

A lot of the same guys that made records then on that old gear, are still making records now. Do they all somehow suddenly suck?

I don't think so.

I applaud manufacturers still making equipment that adheres to old design principles that we know worked. Whatever it costs.

30 years on the charts with that old discrete stuff. Pink Floyd. The Beatles.

6 months with digital summing and ICs galore.

You do the math.

It could be that there is absolutely NOBODY left on Earth that can write a good song, and perform it.

I think it is highly unlikely though.

I say go RND and API. And Aurora, and all the others. Thanks for keeping it alive.

john

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT

Maybe because we are not using tape and discrete consoles that cost 100k anymore?

I don't think that Jim would be thinking that. Surely, non-audio people never talk about tape and discrete consoles.

The "music doesn't sound good" argument doesn't wash.

It sounds good to this generation. Maybe our friend Jim is moving on in years. People don't usually make music for men of his age. Not sure. But people still love and consume music. And thanks to piracy, it's difficult to gauge if people find it harder to listen to based on sales.

[dbjp]

I still don't understand the line of work Jim chose to pursue, given the fact that his stance is a complete 'ha, ha, ha' to customers of his that spent the extra bucks to make their equipment sound just that little bit better, when the modd'r himself claims nobody gives a shit what aesthetic an engineer has and what he or she tries to incorporate into any given record by chosing and using equipments of their choice.
So his ironic stance states: don't spend any money on equipments as listeners don't care. Don't pay me to mod your soundcraft/toft/etc or your mics, as listeners don't give a shit.

Well done Jim.

[drew]

This should explain it.

[Jack P]

Hey GPI - congratulations on your Neve console - looks really cool..

[The Vulture]

Jim, you freaking hipster.
You kick pure ass in this thread!!

I just bought a cheap ramsa wr-t812.
But I consider selling it now just because you are awesome.
I know you dislike ramsa

EDIT.
But the pres sound very good on drums though..

[Ward Pike]

Originally Posted by The Vulture

Jim,SNIP I just bought a cheap ramsa wr-t812.
But I consider selling it now just because you are awesome.
I know you dislike ramsa

He doesn't dislike them, he just can't afford them.

Originally Posted by The Vulture

But the pres sound very good on drums though..

That's all Jim needs to hear! ROTFL

[dbjp]

It's weird cause I have Jim's 2ch preamp, and the clarity and speed (when called for) are amazing.
Should have bought cheap ass 8ch behringer instead. Think of the money saved, and the fact listeners don't give a crap.
Jim no doubt would recommend a mod to make it sound better for some reason though.

[sdd17]

Any Mod Jim has ever done for me has been really great and a noticeable improvement in fidelity.

That being said I just bought a 42 channel 5088
and I am really looking forward to spending the next decade mixing on it. I don't regret spending the money I spent on it.
I bought it because life is short and I want to enjoy walking into my studio and going to work. That at this point means more to me then the money.

[DarkSky Media]

Originally Posted by sdd17

...just bought a 42 channel 5088...

Congrats on a fantastic console!! - But is that a typo? I wasn't aware they made a 42 channel version. They're assembled in frames that support 16 (and presumably now, 8) but is there another frame or combination that supports 42 chans?

Originally Posted by sdd17

I am really looking forward to spending the next decade mixing on it. I don't regret spending the money I spent on it.
I bought it because life is short and I want to enjoy walking into my studio and going to work. That at this point means more to me then the money.

[sdd17]

Its a 32 frame fitted with 10 stereo channels on top of the 22 mono channels
Plus you have another 16 returns in the master section bringing the desk to a total of 58 inputs at mixdown.

I am currently installing a Neve Flying Fader system as well.
Thx for the thumbs Dark Sky

[Odey]

Originally Posted by jayfield

I would love one of these! I have the Portico Channel strip and am nuts about it. Trying to find a price for this new offering. Anybody have any leads?

Rupert Neve Designs – Michael Cohen Installs the First Eight-Channel 5088

Oh Wow.. that looks awesome. Totally something I would be interested in. Any idea of price?

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by sdd17

I just bought a 42 channel 5088
and I am really looking forward to spending the next decade mixing on it. I don't regret spending the money I spent on it.
I bought it because life is short and I want to enjoy walking into my studio and going to work. That at this point means more to me then the money.

[alvagoldbook]

Jim is freaking awesome.

I have a little humble home studio that I use solely to record my own stuff. I doubt I'll ever sell a record. I could care less. I just want to record my own stuff and make my own stuff sound as good as I can make it, without paying some guy by the hour, putting me in the poor house and ending up with a product that I don't like.

I have a 8 channel Soundcraft Delta SR. It was completely unused when I bought it. Only paid like $150 for it. I don't even remember. It was mint it was so new. Not a scratchy pot on it. It sounds awesome.

If I want Neve sound (which I do) then I'll just pick up a few GAP Pre73's. Oh, the horror. I can have that and not worry about being homeless or declaring bankruptcy.

Some of this stuff is obnoxious. A new Telefunken ELA M251 costs $11,000. Yes, it's an amazing mic. But it's not more amazing than a new car. Get real, people. A metal tube, a few electronic components, a mesh grill, and a capsule shouldn't cost you 11 grand. It shouldn't cost you 11 hundred bucks. Ever wondered what Telefunken's profit margin is? What's yours?

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by alvagoldbook

Some of this stuff is obnoxious. A new Telefunken ELA M251 costs $11,000. Yes, it's an amazing mic. But it's not more amazing than a new car. Get real, people. A metal tube, a few electronic components, a mesh grill, and a capsule shouldn't cost you 11 grand. It shouldn't cost you 11 hundred bucks. Ever wondered what Telefunken's profit margin is? What's yours?

You forget that a car is a mass-produced product (especially a cheap car) designed to sell on quantities of tens / hundreds of thousands and every part designed to be manufactured as cheap as possible.

A top microphone is a hand-built product made to exacting standards and designed to be sold in hundreds or the low thousands.

It probably actually takes longer to build a top microphone than to build a car.

Not a fair comparison at all.

A fairer comparison is probably with a watch - and top watches cost far more than a top microphone.

[dbjp]

Not to mention depreciation on cars.

[alvagoldbook]

Originally Posted by John Willett

You forget that a car is a mass-produced product (especially a cheap car) designed to sell on quantities of tens / hundreds of thousands and every part designed to be manufactured as cheap as possible.

A top microphone is a hand-built product made to exacting standards and designed to be sold in hundreds or the low thousands.

It probably actually takes longer to build a top microphone than to build a car.

Not a fair comparison at all.

A fairer comparison is probably with a watch - and top watches cost far more than a top microphone.

Top watches cost so much because rich people are dumb enough to buy them.

C'mon, get real. A MXL V67 costs 100 bucks. No, the MXL isn't the same mic as the Telefunken. But do the raw materials cost $10,900 more? What, does Telefunken use five hundred dollar resistors? How much per hour do they pay their employees to put grill mesh into a press to shape it?

My brother is a guitar luthier. You wanna talk about built by hand, his guitars are built by hand and built to customer specs. He can build a better guitar than you'll ever get from PRS or Gibson, but he charges half as much. I guarantee you it takes less time to make a microphone. Hell, it takes 30 days for the lacquer to cure before he can even buff the guitar out. Should he be charging the same price as General Motors?

[Kenny Gioia]

I can't believe what this thread has turned into.

[Sm58]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

I can't believe what this thread has turned into.

Me too... Weird

[Jack P]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

I can't believe what this thread has turned into.

I can't believe what Gearslutz has turned into..

[dbjp]

If T-funk could sell a proper 251 for $300 and actually turn a tiny little profit, there's not a shadow of doubt that they'd do so.
They'd sell millions. But they can't. You'd have to be pretty darn thick to think that they could.
As it is AC701 on it's own is approaching $500 a piece these days.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Jack P

I can't believe what Gearslutz has turned into..

Ok, let's go one further. I can't believe what Audio Engineering has turned into!!

I'm not that jaded...........yet.

[GPl]

[Sounds Great]

Simple fix:

Future posts to this thread should be limited to experience/opinions about the Neve 5088 and comparisons to other high end consoles.

The merits of such a console versus something cheap or other methods for recording should be left for discussions about such things, which this thread isn't (or at least wasn't intended to be).