Rupert Neve 5088--eight channel board

[Alex Breaux]

Originally Posted by DarkSky Media

Actually, the cars analogy is very much on point, as it happens.

You can buy a three- or four-decades-old car with new tires and a set of NOS rockers and rings for a lot less than the corresponding/equivalent *new* vehicle -- but that doesn't mean that considering a new car purchase indicates either madness or ineptitude or that anyone is "ripping people off". It also doesn't mean that driving an old jalopy (however "renovated" it may be) is necessarily a desirable or appropriate choice for a working professional who depends on their vehicle - and certainly not for every working professional (as you would have us believe).

Meanwhile, I've worked on quite a few consoles, including Neve, Amek and SSL, and I can attest that the 5088 does things that none of them could do, even when they were new.

I daresay you really do think that Rupert Neve is going to read your posts and learn the error of his ways (but I don't). I'm also perfectly content to know that you're happy driving your patched up veteran "jalopy" console and saving yourself a few bucks. But I can do without your imperious lecturing about the choices others here make. Some of us have work to do and happen to consider that buying appropriate/current/high end technology is justified. Your mileage may (and clearly does) vary, but that doesn't make you right.

No, it makes no sense. A car does not create income, a classic car would technically be a luxury.

Patched up veterans console? Whats in your studio? Hopefully you installed some "runflats".

[unnecessarily inflammatory - removed by mod]

[Alex Breaux]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

I think it's incredibly rude to jump into a thread about a new piece of equipment and complain that it's too expensive. Why? Because it's too expensive for you?

If it doesn't fit your needs, don't buy it, but don't assume what the rest of us need or want. And certainly don't crap on Rupert Neve. The guy is a legend.

At this price point, it's not for everyone. Trust me. Mr. Neve knows that. If he could have made the thing for 5k, he would have. He'd sell a billion of them. But at it's price point, it fills a need for some people. That's why he invested his time and money and made the darn thing.

What have you invested in? Should we all crap on that?

All the best.

Crapping on "Neve" and Rupert Neve are completely different. If I remember correctly I was crapping on their astronomical price points.

Btw... My APC1000 was designed by Rupert and Langley. I love it. With that being said I do not think I would be crapping on anything he did.

As far as people not being able to afford it.. Some people on here can pay cash for one of those 5088's from only one month of income. Why do they choose not to? Because people that make money like that don't like to throw it away.

I'll be that 90% of the owners of 5088's are still paying them off. Doubt they will admit to that though.

[DarkSky Media]

Originally Posted by Alex Breaux

No, it makes no sense. A car does not create income, a classic car would technically be a luxury.

I guess you've never heard of taxis, delivery vans, chauffeur services - or even business-owned vehicles used for carting gear, visiting venues or transporting clients. All of them (and many more) are associated with creating income in much the same way as a console may be.

Originally Posted by Alex Breaux

Patched up veterans console? Whats in your studio? Hopefully you installed some "runflats".

[unnecessarily inflammatory - removed by mod]

What's in my studio is what's pictured in my avatar - and no, FYI it doesn't need runflats.

[natpub]

I really didn't open a thread about this piece of equipment to listen to a couple geezers carp on about the price of bread in the good-old days, and how young whippersnappers oughtta save-save-save. Jeesh, I can hear that shit at the Walmart or just call my mom.

OK, so how's any users liking their RND mixers and consoles; who is thinking about a smaller count unit like this and why; what applications are you considering, etc, etc? On with the effing show...

[Alex Breaux]

Originally Posted by DarkSky Media

I guess you've never heard of taxis, delivery vans, chauffeur services - or even business-owned vehicles used for carting gear, visiting venues or transporting clients. All of them (and many more) are associated with creating income in much the same way as a console may be.



What's in my studio is what's pictured in my avatar - and no, FYI it doesn't need runflats.

[removed by mod]

I hope you keep enjoying your 5088.

I just could not see it logical making such a substantial investment of that level unless it would pull me in a bare minimum of at least six figures.

[Emwolb]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

I think it's incredibly rude to jump into a thread about a new piece of equipment and complain that it's too expensive...

Thats ridiculous. Its on topic and your position is hypocritical... You can't enforce people to agree with you...

I will say-

Jim W cries about everything, always plugs his soundcraft and is not a full time recording engineer- everyone knows that by now... At least his electrical engineer work is good! But hes always butt hurt about something...

Alex B was super shady about his S19 sale, lied in his auction about how he aquired it and thinks thats 100% OK. Hes apparently sold that unit twice yet still has it...

And a console for 50K isn't big money if you get paid for production, post production etc on top of tracking/recording. If you think engineering is gonna pull big cash alone in places like LA you have a hard lesson to learn.

But to say its hard to cover a 50K investment means you are in the wrong business...

The console looks nice! Ops link to the little room full of big gear doesn't upset me at all... Plus the guy has 2 Bricastis and a remote... Things must be going OK...

[Ward Pike]

BACK ON TOPIC, if you pontificators don't mind...

What is the sonic difference between a RND 5088 and a Neve Genesys?

[jamwerks]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

What is suprising is people are suggesting you go out and pay $50,000 for a analog 16 channel console. The average audio guy, (not Kenny Chesney) will have a hard time making that back.

If you have that money and want to play, great. Suggesting this is a good investment is what is suprising since there are not too many rooms willing to take that chance in today's market of downloads and free MP3's.

This is 2012, not 1990. Those investments must be made with a solid business plan or you too will lose your shirt like all those that came before you.

I want to hear from the guy that paid $50,000 for that console, who isn't rich and famous. Maybe he can tell us how much a 16 channel analog console can take in these days.

Love reading your opinions on computers though

[Dave Reid]

Could anyone suggest some LP's that have been tracked and mixed on a 5088 ?

The studios last year that were bigging up the console (Ifrasonic & Gravity) on the net, both replaced the console shortly after installing.

Any thoughts on the sound, driving the channels via trim & fader, saturation, width etc.. would be helpful.

That 8 channel console looks so cool..

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Emwolb

Thats ridiculous. Its on topic and your position is hypocritical...

It's rude to call people rude? They both know they were being rude.

Originally Posted by Emwolb

You can't enforce people to agree with you...

My stating that someone is rude does not ask for "enforcement".

It was a comment. By your definition, you are also being hypocritical.

Fun. Isn't it?

[chet.d]

Originally Posted by Neilstar

I am new to the forum , but I started reading this post and I have to say from experience that some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing. I see it all the time, if you are not willing to invest in yourself and your equipment, why would anyone else invest in you? I give credit to the people who find a way to raise the cake for a Neve or API board to produce the best product possible, while all the other "naysayers" claim they can get the same result from a used Peavey mixer. Yes, you should look for value, but the fact of the matter is that just like a sh*t guitar sounds like a sh*t guitar no matter who's driving, you get what you pay for so give yourself the advantage of quality tools.

Ok although I will be getting a tree audio tube console, or possibly aurora console or possibly the 5088 (or sf langevin etc.) as soon as I can possibly rationalize it being the right thing to do "in my situation" (key words here).
...And yeah, I'm a fan of using the best tools one can reasonably get a hold of to get the job done as well as is possible at that time.

...But, I kinda have a feeling that even a shit guitar in the hands Hendrix "driving it" would not sound like shit.
Just sayin, as they say.

[RKrizman]

Way back when ADATs first came out I heard one and was astounded at how awful it sounded. Shortly thereafter I invested $40,000 in a Trident Series 24 and MCI JH-24 setup, lots of money in 1988 dollars, especially for a freelance composer not even running a commercial studio business. It only took me about a year to pay it back. That thing smoked and it was reflected in the quality of my work. It bumped me up a quantum leap in the business. Not that I didn't have to work hard, but I identified the tools I thought I needed and spared no expense to acquire them.

So if somebody identifies that 5088 8 channel board as a key tool for their own business, then I say, to quote Plush, "strong move".

-R

[DarkSky Media]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Ray Kimber gave me that silver wire for free. I'm not concerned about my $550 Soundcraft Delta 16 sending me to the poorhouse. It is paid off, is your 5088?

Yes.

[Plush]

Boo-ya-ka-sha

[jeremyglover]

unsubcribed.

[Sounds Great]

Why would somebody buy a 20 thousand dollar Rolex President watch when it doesn't tell time any better than a 50 dollar Timex? Perhaps to impress his clients and show, whatever his business is, that he is a success?

I wonder what a potential big time studio client is thinking when you are talking about your old $500 Soundcraft board that you have modified to sound just as good as a 50K Neve?

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

If you think that $50,000 16 channel console will help you sell CD's, put a pic of it on your next release and get back to us on how many units it sold for you.

What's your deal dude? Did Rupert Neve steal your wife?

[cinealta]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

If you think that $50,000 16 channel console will help you sell CD's, put a pic of it on your next release and get back to us on how many units it sold for you.

Not my record but Warren Huart used an API 1608 to record a large part of The Fray's second album, "The Fray," at their own studio in Denver, based on a recommendation from Gearslutz' own "Round Badge." The consensus view is that that album sounds very good, everything from the drums to the Yamaha C7. It debuted at #1 on Billboard, sold 179K copies in the first week, went Gold after a month and has sold over 1 million now. By all accounts, that console was the heart of that sound recording and was used in multiple ways (mic-pres, direct outs, monitor/headphone mixes etc).

There's no reason the RND 5088 could not be similarly productive with requisite sound quality.

[heyman]

Originally Posted by cinealta

Not my record but Warren Huart used an API 1608 to record a large part of The Fray's second album, "The Fray," at their own studio in Denver, based on a recommendation from Gearslutz' own "Round Badge." The consensus view is that that album sounds very good, everything from the drums to the Yamaha C7. It debuted at #1 on Billboard, sold 179K copies in the first week, went Gold after a month and has sold over 1 million now. By all accounts, that console was the heart of that sound recording and was used in multiple ways (mic-pres, direct outs, monitor/headphone mixes etc).

There's no reason the RND 5088 could not be similarly productive with requisite sound quality.

First off, I do agree that the album sounds really good, but I would like to believe that the band's touring, excellent live shows and the knack for writing hit songs is what is selling their albums. Not a console.

Kinda like saying that Bob Rock was responsible for the sales of the Black Album. The Black album would have been huge with or without Bob Rock and would have sold a ton regardless of the console it was recorded on.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by heyman

First off, I do agree that the album sounds really good, but I would like to believe that the band's touring, excellent live shows and the knack for writing hit songs is what is selling their albums. Not a console.

So why did they buy it? Was it a bad investment?

Just because something is not the only thing that made the record successful does not mean it meant nothing. Try taking away all the little things that helped make the band successful and eventually it doesn't work.

Originally Posted by heyman

Kinda like saying that Bob Rock was responsible for the sales of the Black Album. The Black album would have been huge with or without Bob Rock

Horrible example. Listen to earlier Mettalica records and tell me that they sound close to the same. "And Justice" had no bass and was EQed horribly.

The Black Album was a huge step up in making them sound like a mainstream rock act and a big reason why they appealed to more fans.

Originally Posted by heyman

and would have sold a ton regardless of the console it was recorded on.

Sure. But again, every step matters. You can't give the artist credit for making a great record without also considering all the choices that everyone made.

[heyman]

Kenny, I have no problem with someone going out and buying a 5088.
The console is an important step, but the Song, the talent, the engineer and the producer come first.

Lots of great records where made on much less.

Peace..

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by heyman

Kenny, I have no problem with someone going out and buying a 5088.
The console is an important step, but the Song, the talent, the engineer and the producer come first.

Lots of great records where made on much less.

Peace..

Absolutely. But that could be said about any gear. Nothing is a necessary or comes before the art or creativity. But this is Gearslutz.

Why use any mic better than a TLM 103?

Why use any preamp better than a Daking Pre One ($800)?

You can break every piece of equipment down to the cheapest you can get away with but that should never weaken the value of the expensive stuff in the right hands.

Can I mix on a laptop using stock plugins? Sure. But I don't.

My point is that every step matters. And just because this console doesn't fit into your (not directed at you) workflow, doesn't mean it's an overpriced boat anchor.

Peace.

[DarkSky Media]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

Absolutely. But that could be said about any gear. Nothing is a necessary or comes before the art or creativity. But this is Gearslutz.

Why use any mic better than a TLM 103?

Why use any preamp better than a Daking Pre One ($800)?

You can break every piece of equipment down to the cheapest you can get away with but that should never weaken the value of the expensive stuff in the right hands.

Can I mix on a laptop using stock plugins? Sure. But I don't.

My point is that every step matters. And just because this console doesn't fit into your (not directed at you) workflow, doesn't mean it's an overpriced boat anchor.

Peace.

Geez, Kenny --- there you go, talking absolute *sense* again!

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by DarkSky Media

Geez, Kenny --- there you go, talking absolute *sense* again!

Thanks.

I just think it's unfortunate to turn this "Rupert Neve console announcement thread" into a "why do we need expensive gear" thread.

[turk sanchez]

Originally Posted by GPl

Where exactly are we going to fit a 48 eight channel console in this room?

NICE setup! I like it!

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

I dunno Jim. Typically you can tell a difference. I can anyway. Whether it's "better" to your ears or not, is a subjective thing.

FWIW, I just got done modding my DDA console, and practically did everything that is discussed by you / Jim on these forums. I had help from somebody far more experienced than I, and it is somebody you have known well for years Jim.

Did it open it up? Is it clearer? Quieter? Yeah.

Does it sound like a nice discrete console? No, it doesn't.

I won't get into the differences, but suffice it to say that if I had the money (and charged higher rates) I would definitely opt for a nice discrete, transformer coupled in and out console.

I mean, I rechipped w/ all LME chips, recapped, compensated the chips, put in metal films and polypropylene bypass caps, the WORKS. Started w/ PSU, and master section, and moved to every I/O.

It does not have the "relaxed" and comfortable, easy going but hard hitting feel of a nice discrete console. It just doesn't. I wish it did, and I knew what I was getting into because I already had another console modded in a very similar manner. It's an improvement, and I'm thankful, but it ain't the same.

Just my opinion.

The IC based consoles and the discrete sound as different as a single coil vs humbucker to me...although that is a bad analogy with no real parallels. Just saying, I can hear a difference.

If you have the money, and can hear the difference in sound (and want that) you should buy a Neve, or API console. I mean...why not?

john

PS: I removed the WIMA MKP-2 electrolytic bypass caps, as they were singing the hair in my ear canals. I'm all for trimming ear hair as you get older, but not with my audio.

[pianokeys]

As someone who only occasionally comes on to GS anymore I find it so sad to see the way threads are starting to sound.

I love gear and have no problem admitting it. I invest in better gear to better my recordings but also to feed a personal hobby and something I enjoy.

The only real money I have made (and I do make a living at it) has been on creativity.

The gear I own just makes it easier for me to make creative inspirations sound good, and makes me enjoy working that much more.

Nothing wrong with having a hobby, nothing wrong with making money on any gear.

In the end we make most of our money being kind and understanding to our clients (as borderline therapists haha) and by having integrity and solid work ethic. A few flashy lights in the studio dont hurt but I get more comments on my "awesome" dual monitor set-up as I do for my Forssel or My LaChapell, Crane Song, Wunder etc.

I have to ask what many of you are doing to have the time to flame eachother on here?

I think most of us know by not gear is a tool but the types of gear comparisons that go on on GS are mostly to feed our collective addiction to nice gear (I have it too) and should be kept as such.

Let's talk high end gear for fun or for work and not combine the two. Sure sometimes the best gear gets a little extra work but it will alwas be a people and creativity focused struggling industry. High end gear sure is fun though isnt it? LETS JUST STOP CONFUSING PLEASURE AND WORK! This way people stop getting their backs up.

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

I see your point, but I do think the $ is a topic of discussion if you are in the business of making music / records for a living.

Even if you are working only three times a week (sometimes sadly for me in Winter for some reason now), but it is getting you income, it's still money. It is business.

I know there is a music business forum, but this is a high end gear forum. At some point the topic of the price tag is going to surface, and people will discuss whether it's a bargain, wise investment, or if there is another option that sounds as good without the outlay.

As far as what people are doing on here with their time? I run a small project studio. 10 years in this location, 10 years in a commercial studio prior to this. Most of my clients have 9-5 jobs. This means that they are at work during the day, and that they are typically coming in from 6pm or later until whenever in the morning. This is how they make money to be able to afford making a record. Not all of them, but a good percentage of them work these kinds of jobs.

I see the odd small label gig here, but this is the bread and butter work.

So, you will see me killing some downtime on here daytime and early morning hours. I come here to learn, and get better at what I do. There are some smart wise people here.

As far as flaming goes, yeah man...flaming sucks. I agree. My last post was a God's honest reply to Jim, as to whether people can really hear the difference or not. I believe even the average listener can. They may not know why, or what the difference is, but they knowo "That sound" when they hear it, and it hits home with them.

The reason I though my blurb was relevant, was because I followed almost to the letter what Jim W lays out as modifications to old British IC based consoles. Trust me, I have MONTHS of leaning over a work bench with a desoldering / soldering unit in my hands invested into this console.

It is hard to not be emotionally invested at that point, but you have to be real. Again, I hear an improvement, but it is still not the same to my ears.

You can say, I did the mods wrong, blah, blah, whatever. I'm saying I hear an improvement, but it is not the same sound at all.

If you have the $, (work aside) and you like the sound of the RND desk, buy it. Don't listen to people on here.

You live but ONCE. Do what makes you happy. Audio delivered the way you like to hear it can make you happy. If it didn't, there would not be so many people out there doing it. If you are in the business of selling your services, do what makes your clients happy.

Peace,
john

PS: I know a guy signed to SONY that is still working a 9-5 job and taking leave for tours. Apparently this is the way the music biz is at this juncture. Kinda sad reality.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

The average listener could care less what console they used. Only audio dudes stress about that stuff.

That's an incredibly misguided point of view.

Just because the average listener doesn't "obsess" about gear, doesn't mean they don't "appreciate" the use of it.

AC/DC's "Back in Black" is one of the best "sounding" records of all time and it's also one of the best "selling" records as well.

Is it a coincidence? We don't know, but you can't assume that just because the "average" listener doesn't care "how" it was made that they also don't care about the result.

Guitar players spend years developing their tone. Is it all in vain? Only they care about what tubes they use or how they modded the pickups but in the end, the audience does care. That's why most successful guitar players also have great tone. Because they cared about those things.

I don't need to know how to make great soup, to know where to get some.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by pianokeys

The gear I own just makes it easier for me to make creative inspirations sound good, and makes me enjoy working that much more.

Exactly.

Who wants to make a record with the cheapest things you can "get away with"?

Originally Posted by pianokeys

I have to ask what many of you are doing to have the time to flame eachother on here?

Today? I'm mixing two songs (different artists) writing a blog, and framing out 3 windows (believe it or not).

Typing on forums doesn't take as long as some people think.