Brauner Valvet vs. Brauner VM1 vs. C12 ...

[Solunaris]

Well a microphone has nothing to do with a rock sound in this case.. I mean C12's and VM1A's are used all over rock records. I think the music is what makes it sound rockin or not.

[MDM]

thank you arrogant bastard ( what's in the name .. )

I'd really like to hear more technical and specific things about these mics - especially comparisons -- how do they feel to you etc ...

[Jazzy Alz]

IMO - T

The C12 reissue is absolute shit (should not be called a c12)

An original C12 is nice ($7500 and make sure it's in good condition)

I've bought a VM1 KHE

For me it's either an original c12 or vm1

[Jazzy Alz]

forget the valvet

[Solunaris]

Well, the C12 is more bright. VM1A is a little less bright, and more just insanely 3D and real and natural. Just go listen to them for yourself.

[huarez]

I did a shootout between VM 1 and Valvet and the VM 1 was the clear winner.
Very clear and intimate sound.

[GYang]

VM1 is mic I would choose from mentioned.
It's hard to say just technically which is preferred and why, IMO you'll get most out of VM1 and it's kind of musically pleasant mic in very clean, high resolution department.

[Michael B]

Hello,

"Does anyone know the differences between the Valvet and the VM1 though ?"

The Valvet uses the most common directional characteristics - omni and cardioid - and has a phase reverse switch for the use with non-standard pre-amplifiers. The VM1 has all patterns via pot which gives also patterns between the "normal".

If you have more questions, let me know.

Regs

Michael Bönninghoff

[RKrizman]

So there's no difference? Not sure what you're saying here.

-R

[Tube World]

The Valvet has a similar sound to the VM1 but it is not as clear sounding which is a good thing to me. The Valvet is like looking through a pane of glass while the VM1 is looking without glass, it's totaly transparent. I like the Valvet because there is a little more character to it. Both are great though. Check with Brauner to see if they have any extra CD's which give samples of the mic's. They are all great and they all have that bigger than life, full, detailed sound. They are my favorite newer mic company that is out there.

[gainreduction]

Different output trannies, the VM-1 has a custom wound thing, the Valvet I believe has a Lundahl.

I think the tube is different aswell, If I´m not mistaken the VM-1 uses a EF 804 and the Valvet a 5840 pentode.

The VM-1 is point to point wired and the Valvet´s electronics are mounted on a PCB.

The Valvet is cardioid and omni only, VM-1 all patterns and in betweens.

VM-1 sounds better to me having used both extensively.

I´m going on faint memory on the technical here so please correct me if any of this is incorrect.

[mahasandi]

there is also an earlier valvet that uses ef-86 which i have.

I love the valvet, as far as making good records it won't be an obstacle

[Michael B]

Hello all,

Different output trannies, the VM-1 has a custom wound thing, the Valvet I believe has a Lundahl. Thats right

I think the tube is different aswell, If I´m not mistaken the VM-1 uses a EF 804 and the Valvet a 5840 pentode. The VM1 can be used with EF86/EF806 and also with adapted 5840 in Triode mode. The Valvet uses also a 5840 in Triode Mode

The VM-1 is point to point wired and the Valvet´s electronics are mounted on a PCB. Both are mounted on a PCB

The Valvet is cardioid and omni only, VM-1 all patterns and in betweens. Thats right



Regs

Michael

[gorillainthemix]

Drop the C12, unless you can find an original.
I'm also very interested in these two Brauners. Heard really good things about them (Brauner in general actually, seen nothing but positive reviews).

How do they compare to Manley and Horch (RM2J)? (sorry, no intend to hijack the thread)

[Tube World]

Brauner has mic's that are clean and detailed and then some mic's that have a little more character in the low end. The newest one is the Valvet-X which is card. only but closer to the Phanthera character in a tube mic. Awesome!

[Rob King]

I own a pair of early Valvet's and an original early (1955) C12. A good friend has a Brauner VMA. I have listened to all these mics quite a bit. Comparing the VM1 setting on the VMA to the Valvets, the VMA is definitely more clear in the upper mid's and high end. A valvet will get you to about 85% of what the VM1 can do in the high end. The Valvets are amazing microphones and do have a bit more "colored character" if you will. If it is absolute clarity you need go for a VM1. If you can't afford the mic the Valvet is in no way a slouch of a microphone. It is my go to mic for stacking Backing Vocals and does very well on most acoustic instruments.

The C12 on the other hand does have all those vintage characteristic that most people love. It has a more "velvet" smoothness on the top end and just rules on the low end. Obvious the price difference on a vintage C12 and new mics is a lot.
All these mics sorta "do their thing" and sound great. I am certain each mic would excel on certain sources. If you have no mic and the money, I'd have to say that the Brauner VMA (which also has the VMX capsule for a more vintage sound sort of an M49 meets C12 with more clarity) is an outstanding microphone and you should listen and consider it. That Mic can certainly do a lot of things and very well. I think it is one of the best microphones ever made, vintage included.
Best of luck and try to listen to as many microphones you can before you die.

[jjblair]

On the right voice, a C12 will make them sound like an angel in a way no other mic can. If you can find a real one and can afford it, grab it.

[Michael B]

VMA is an outstanding microphone and you should listen and consider it. That Mic can certainly do a lot of things and very well. I think it is one of the best microphones ever made, vintage included.

Hello Rob,
thanx a lot for that, nice to hear such. It was the first mic i did with Dirk. A so called "Einstiegsarbeit".

Regards

Michael Bönninghoff

[Jan_M]

I currently use a pair of VM1s and a VMA and used to have a Valvet and C12VR. I have used all these mics extensively on vocals.

As far as the Brauners go they all have a slightly different sound but it is subtle. As Rob mentioned the Valvet is very close to the VM1. In my experience I noticed the Valvet had a tad more in the upper mids compared to the VM1 and I find the VMA, set to VM1 mode to be slightly more natural sounding than the VM1. The VM1 also seems to sound more open than the Valvet.

If I had to choose between the Valvet and VM1 I would go with the VM1 probably more for the versatility that comes with the infinitely variable polar patterns. It is a great tool for tailoring proximity effect and room balance in a variety of situations. If you are using this primarily for 1 singer then I suggest you try both mics otherwise go with the VM1 it will be more versatile. Sometimes the slight bump that is in the Valvet works really well and has led me to chose it over the VM1.

If you are tight on budget the VM1 lite maybe just ticket. Same mic but with different accessories and the power supply with only two patterns like the Valvet.

If money is no object VMA.

The differences between the three are all pretty subtle especially between the VM1 and VMA, in VM1 mode.

As far as the C12VR is concerned it is also a good mic but that is way more colored than the Brauner's but not in the same league. Fatter sounding and bright very hifi nice but not always appropriate. Sometime though when it matches with a voice it is quite nice. For me I used it more as an instrument mic than a vocal mic and for what I paid for it I thought it was a pretty good deal. (got a store demo for pretty cheap)

[jjblair]

We're not talking about the C12VR. We are talking about the C12.

[Jan_M]

Originally Posted by MDM

Brauner Valvet vs. Brauner VM1 vs. AKG C12 ...

Kinda feel pulled towards the C12 - but it could be the gold finishing that's pulling me !

This was the only reason I mentioned the VR. As far as i know, but I could be wrong, vintage c12s don't come with any gold finish.

Anyways i was just trying to be thorough as It wasn't exactly clear.

[Tube World]

Originally Posted by Jan_M

I currently use a pair of VM1s and a VMA and used to have a Valvet and C12VR. I have used all these mics extensively on vocals.

As far as the Brauners go they all have a slightly different sound but it is subtle. As Rob mentioned the Valvet is very close to the VM1. In my experience I noticed the Valvet had a tad more in the upper mids compared to the VM1 and I find the VMA, set to VM1 mode to be slightly more natural sounding than the VM1. The VM1 also seems to sound more open than the Valvet.

If I had to choose between the Valvet and VM1 I would go with the VM1 probably more for the versatility that comes with the infinitely variable polar patterns. It is a great tool for tailoring proximity effect and room balance in a variety of situations. If you are using this primarily for 1 singer then I suggest you try both mics otherwise go with the VM1 it will be more versatile. Sometimes the slight bump that is in the Valvet works really well and has led me to chose it over the VM1.

If you are tight on budget the VM1 lite maybe just ticket. Same mic but with different accessories and the power supply with only two patterns like the Valvet.

If money is no object VMA.

The differences between the three are all pretty subtle especially between the VM1 and VMA, in VM1 mode.

As far as the C12VR is concerned it is also a good mic but that is way more colored than the Brauner's but not in the same league. Fatter sounding and bright very hifi nice but not always appropriate. Sometime though when it matches with a voice it is quite nice. For me I used it more as an instrument mic than a vocal mic and for what I paid for it I thought it was a pretty good deal. (got a store demo for pretty cheap)

I agree with your statments about the Brauner mic's. But the very reason that the Valvet is not as clear sounding is why I like the Valvet better. I mean it's still clear, but not too clear that it lacks the character that I want.....which the Valvet has.

[Chris Wilson]

Originally Posted by Tube World

I agree with your statments about the Brauner mic's. But the very reason that the Valvet is not as clear sounding is why I like the Valvet better. I mean it's still clear, but not too clear that it lacks the character that I want.....which the Valvet has.

Agreed.

Owning a Valvet (but not a VM-1) some earlier posts comparing their respective sounds are a bit surprising.

Because they have the same capsule, I'd always assumed they sounded a lot alike but the that super-duper clear detail with an "open" top end people are saying about the VM-1 is not how I'd describe the Valvet at all.

Immediately noticeable with the Valvet is that 'je ne sais quoi' that defines the Brauner sound, but framed in a pleasant tube-ness that doesn't get too thick in any frequency range. The Valvet definitely has an identifiable character, but is still detailed enough to highlight even the slightest of imperfections.

[hara]

Originally Posted by Rob King

Comparing the VM1 setting on the VMA to the Valvets, the VMA is definitely more clear in the upper mid's and high end.....

.....If you have no mic and the money, I'd have to say that the Brauner VMA (which also has the VMX capsule for a more vintage sound sort of an M49 meets C12 with more clarity) is an outstanding microphone and you should listen and consider it. That Mic can certainly do a lot of things and very well. I think it is one of the best microphones ever made, vintage included.

hi, has anyone compared the vm1 setting on the vma to the characteristics of the vm1s ?

thanks, paul

[Trp]

Originally Posted by hara

hi, has anyone compared the vm1 setting on the vma to the characteristics of the vm1s ?

thanks, paul

Yes, I have made stereo recordings with one VM1 and a VMA in VM1 mode: They sound identical.

I also think that the VM1 sounds much better than the Valvet (in the upper mids and high end). If budget is an issue, the VM 1 lite is a great choice.

[Trp]

Originally Posted by hara

hi, has anyone compared the vm1 setting on the vma to the characteristics of the vm1s ?

thanks, paul

Sorry, are you talking about the stereo version of the VM1 or the plural of one VM1?

I haven´t used the stereo version (the VM1S)...

[hara]

Originally Posted by Trp

Sorry, are you talking about the stereo version of the VM1 or the plural of one VM1?

I haven´t used the stereo version (the VM1S)...

VM1S (stereo version)

[hara]

Originally Posted by Trp

Y
Yes, I have made stereo recordings with one VM1 and a VMA in VM1 mode:
They sound identical.

thanks, good to know... i've heard there were some (minor) differences...