Converter advice

[Dpro]

Ross Martin stuff looks great for the money if you are needing a Stereo or two channel AD/DA type setup.
It does not seem he offers much beyond that. While it might be top notch a lot of us need multi channel I/O choices 8 in 8 out minimum.

It would be cool if he made an 8 I/O setup. I am guessing his prices would jump dramatically though. The reason he can keep the price down is the limited I/O. If you multiply out the cost of his setup times 8 AD and DA You are up the range of the heavy hitters, Burl, Symphony , etc....

So ya for the monitor system crowd or the guys needing only a couple channels it works out great.
Like I said before it sounds like his stuff is great its just practical for a lot of peoples workflow.
Dare I say this as well , though Jim puts down the converters a lot of other people use, fact is they sound good.
People forgot its not just the converter but the circuit around it that adds or does not add to the sound.

[Schumannz]

Originally Posted by Dpro

Ross Martin stuff looks great for the money if you are needing a Stereo or two channel AD/DA type setup.
It does not seem he offers much beyond that. While it might be top notch a lot of us need multi channel I/O choices 8 in 8 out minimum.

It would be cool if he made an 8 I/O setup. I am guessing his prices would jump dramatically though. The reason he can keep the price down is the limited I/O. If you multiply out the cost of his setup times 8 AD and DA You are up the range of the heavy hitters, Burl, Symphony , etc....

So ya for the monitor system crowd or the guys needing only a couple channels it works out great.
Like I said before it sounds like his stuff is great its just practical for a lot of peoples workflow.
Dare I say this as well , though Jim puts down the converters a lot of other people use, fact is they sound good.
People forgot its not just the converter but the circuit around it that adds or does not add to the sound.

I just sent an email inquiring about 8/8 I/O through Ross Martin website.
Waiting with calm and patience for their reply...

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by GaryWeinrib

I was being sarcastic

Ok.

[hollowaxis]

Originally Posted by Schumannz

I just sent an email inquiring about 8/8 I/O through Ross Martin website.
Waiting with calm and patience for their reply...

You may have to wait a long while for the reply, but you will get one.

I ordered a PCM 4222 ADC and a PCM1794A DAC + Headphone Amp (With ADA 4898-1-2 op Amps) about a month ago, he was initially very quick to respond to things when I placed orders.
I sent a few emails in the weeks since and got no answers at all.

Just this afternoon I sent a long followup, quite snappily worded, and I finally got a response.
My units should be shipped next week apparently.
I'm pretty excited

[Slikjmuzik]

He is the only one building things over there and has to wait for parts to come in. I believe your invoice will be created by his wife. Yes, the casing is aluminum, but it looks like aluminum brushed, not just a raw metal for a garage made appearance. The wood sides look cool in person and the LED's are priceless. Mine is going spdif into my interface and is clocking both the interface and my Aurora16. I can't even express how much of a happy camper I am with the RMA and the month and a half that I waited for the unit to be hand made with care and precision using ridiculous awesome spec'd texas instruments opamps/chips, was well worth the wait to say the least. I'll be getting the DAC soon, hopefully.

[ds11]

To add to Jim, the dual bare beast is now available 1u

[Schumannz]

Originally Posted by hollowaxis

You may have to wait a long while for the reply, but you will get one.

I ordered a PCM 4222 ADC and a PCM1794A DAC + Headphone Amp (With ADA 4898-1-2 op Amps) about a month ago, he was initially very quick to respond to things when I placed orders.
I sent a few emails in the weeks since and got no answers at all.

Just this afternoon I sent a long followup, quite snappily worded, and I finally got a response.
My units should be shipped next week apparently.
I'm pretty excited

Sounds great!!!

[southernjumber]

Now to make some of you laugh (or smile at best): my first single coming out in October was mainly tracked through a... Digi 002 ! Ok, great mics and via the Neve 8078 of The Way Studio London for mixing, but 002 anyway...

After this I think any converter will sound like a real upgrade ;-)!

[Slikjmuzik]

In any case, his stuff is simply outstanding. I totally love my setup now.

[noiselab]

Another happy RMA PCM1794 DAC user here,(1U rack, no wood sides, ADA4898 ic's) it took some time until I got my unit, but it worth the time. Btw he is already planning the 8 channel versions.

[Slikjmuzik]

Originally Posted by noiselab

Another happy RMA PCM1794 DAC user here,(1U rack, no wood sides, ADA4898 ic's) it took some time until I got my unit, but it worth the time. Btw he is already planning the 8 channel versions.

That's fantastic news!!

[Hardtoe]

I am wondering if I could use the 4222 to add a couple of hiqh quality channels to my setup.

I am currently using an Apogee Ensemble with a motu 8pre via the ADAT input (Clocked off the Ens) - I also am using a krk ergo off the SPDIF output (clocked off the Ens).

Could I use the 4222 on the SPDIF input? Would my Ensemble then sync via word clock from the 4222 and distribute this sync to the motu & the ergo?

Thanks for any advice, I am not that up on clocking.

Cheers


Orion

[Andrew Kinsey]

Originally Posted by Hardtoe

I am wondering if I could use the 4222 to add a couple of hiqh quality channels to my setup.

I am currently using an Apogee Ensemble with a motu 8pre via the ADAT input (Clocked off the Ens) - I also am using a krk ergo off the SPDIF output (clocked off the Ens).

Could I use the 4222 on the SPDIF input? Would my Ensemble then sync via word clock from the 4222 and distribute this sync to the motu & the ergo?

Thanks for any advice, I am not that up on clocking.

Cheers


Orion

If you set your Ensemble to take the WC from the SPDIF input then it will work the way you described. Its allways worth A/B'ing with the internal clock of the Ensemble as they most likely sound a bit different.

[Robbiehouston]

I have a Lynx Aurora 16 and love it, love it, love it. I have heard that the Hilo sounds just as good if not better. I dont think that you can go wrong with Lynx.

[CPhoenix]

Originally Posted by unfiltered420

Converters changed your life? Sorry brother, that sounds pathetic. Mics, pres, eq, comp, maybe but converters? Most boring piece of gear ever. Never even in my lowliest levels of gearlust have I lusted for better converters. Then again I think gold and diamonds are ugly, so what do I know.

A good DA converter is 100% worth it and life changing.


Being able to hear your music accurately is too big of a deal. It's night and day in some cases.

[string6theory]

As someone who went from a delta 1010 to Digi 002R to Apogee 200's, and experienced marked improvements at each upgrade, the idea that converters don't matter is just silly to me (likely most of you as well).

I would expect a similar experience upgrading to many of the even higher end units mentioned or not mentioned here (those usual suspects).

Even with the same basic chips in different branded units, the rest of the implementations, like the analog I/O stages, have a significant impact, for better or worse.

OP, I'll bet you'll be quite happy with the Apogee 200... nice big meters as well to ensure your hitting them at the right level. And, some other nice features like real time SRC between formats and multiple digital I/O & easy front panel switching.

Make some music!

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by CPhoenix

A good DA converter is 100% worth it and life changing.


Being able to hear your music accurately is too big of a deal. It's night and day in some cases.

It's important.

But "Night and day" - well, if you can walk into a new room, hear a piece of music you've never heard before through a set of converters, and tell me if it's apogee or Behringer converters, I'll give you it's a "night and day" difference.

If not - it's what's known as a "relative" or possibly "subtle" difference.

I could do that, walking into a room with an unknown vocal take, and tell you if it's a SM57 or a U87 recording. THAT'S "night and day".

"Literally" an overused metaphor at the moment.

[Trev@Circle]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

To me this is what America is all about. Some guy building a better mousetrap on his own at his house. This is in the Americana tradition of Alexander Bell, Thom Edison, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, don't forget Dave Hewlett who also started out in a garage and then became Hewlett-Packard.

You don't see these sort of stories much from other countries. Innovation is an American tradition.

Er... Alexander Graham Bell was a Scotsman. As was John Logie Baird who invented the television, Robert Watson-Watt who invented radar, John Dunlop who invented the pneumatic tyre, James Blyth who invented the wind turbine, Robert Anderson who invented the electric car, I could go on... If you are interested in considering that people from other countries also invent things take a look here:

Category:Scottish inventors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also for what its worth, the inventor of the internet was Tim Berners-Lee, an Englishman, as was David Hughes who invented the radio. Makes you wonder what was left to invent really. Standing on the shoulders of giants etc.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Trev@Circle

Er... Alexander Graham Bell was a Scotsman. As was John Logie Baird who invented the television, Robert Watson-Watt who invented radar, John Dunlop who invented the pneumatic tyre, James Blyth who invented the wind turbine, Robert Anderson who invented the electric car, I could go on... If you are interested in considering that people from other countries also invent things take a look here:

Category:Scottish inventors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also for what its worth, the inventor of the internet was Tim Berners-Lee, an Englishman, as was David Hughes who invented the radio. Makes you wonder what was left to invent really. Standing on the shoulders of giants etc.

Big f'ing +1.

Other nations were so innovative, they moved continents and "founded" America (as you know it) of course....come back when you've got 2k+ years of history, and we can talk of which nations are "innovative".

PS when we have a "world series" of a sport, we also invite other countries to participate....

[Night Stalker]

Oh lord

Here we go again

Please stay on topic and keep the crap outta here otherwise I'm calling the u.n. peace keepers!!!

If they are too slow to respond then I'll shout out loud GS police help! help!

[unfiltered420]

Originally Posted by CPhoenix

A good DA converter is 100% worth it and life changing.


Being able to hear your music accurately is too big of a deal. It's night and day in some cases.

So to say any converters are "life changing" just shows you buy into gear hype more than anything. Honestly, it pains me when bullshit like this perpetuated, because of all the idiot novice engineers who buy into this materialism crap. You want something life changing, eat some LSD or try transcendental meditation or travel to India. Eating magic mushrooms when I was 15 changed my life in a profound way.

But within the context of music, instruments and musicians can change your life, for me it was the tabla and seeing Zakir Hussain and John Mclaughlin in Shakti, and studying under a prominant Indian tabla guru. And when I got a minimoog, the sheer beauty of what could be done with it I could say changed my life.

So I know about life changing experience, and to say something as and meaningless as a converter changed your life shows either you have no real life experience or you are materialist.

[ShadowAMD]

Originally Posted by unfiltered420

So to say any converters are "life changing" just shows you buy into gear hype more than anything. Honestly, it pains me when bullshit like this perpetuated, because of all the idiot novice engineers who buy into this materialism crap. You want something life changing, eat some LSD or try transcendental meditation or travel to India. Eating magic mushrooms when I was 15 changed my life in a profound way.

But within the context of music, instruments and musicians can change your life, for me it was the tabla and seeing Zakir Hussain and John Mclaughlin in Shakti, and studying under a prominant Indian tabla guru. And when I got a minimoog, the sheer beauty of what could be done with it I could say changed my life.

So I know about life changing experience, and to say something as and meaningless as a converter changed your life shows either you have no real life experience or you are materialist.

I think you should get off your high horse buddy, if a converter really did make that much of a difference and it made his life easier. All the power to him, also it's really not a good idea recommending people to take LSD.. Seriously!

[CPhoenix]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

It's important.

But "Night and day" - well, if you can walk into a new room, hear a piece of music you've never heard before through a set of converters, and tell me if it's apogee or Behringer converters, I'll give you it's a "night and day" difference.

If not - it's what's known as a "relative" or possibly "subtle" difference.

I could do that, walking into a room with an unknown vocal take, and tell you if it's a SM57 or a U87 recording. THAT'S "night and day".

"Literally" an overused metaphor at the moment.

No... that's not the night and day I'm referring to.

I'm keeping this story shirt because I hate typing on phones.

I owned an MAudio Firewire 410. Good interface.... but a pop in audio due to driver issues made me leave it. I went to an Echo Audiofire4. I only switched bc I wanted better, more stable drivers. That's it

After getting it set up.. I started making a beat. I struck a deep tom sound that I use all the time and heard a TERRIBLE hiss sound on the tail of the tom. It was so bad I thought my speakers must have busted. I did find troubleshooting.. and low and behold... the speakers were just fine.

I then realized... holy shit.... I'm hearing something I couldn't physically hear before. I didn't think DA converters made THAT much of a difference.

That sir... was life changing

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by CPhoenix

No... that's not the night and day I'm referring to.

I'm keeping this story shirt because I hate typing on phones.

I owned an MAudio Firewire 410. Good interface.... but a pop in audio due to driver issues made me leave it. I went to an Echo Audiofire4. I only switched bc I wanted better, more stable drivers. That's it

After getting it set up.. I started making a beat. I struck a deep tom sound that I use all the time and heard a TERRIBLE hiss sound on the tail of the tom. It was so bad I thought my speakers must have busted. I did find troubleshooting.. and low and behold... the speakers were just fine.

I then realized... holy shit.... I'm hearing something I couldn't physically hear before. I didn't think DA converters made THAT much of a difference.

That sir... was life changing

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

One budget-ish interface to another, and that's the difference?

Wow...I wasn't there so I can't really say anything further, but there must have been something seriously wrong before!

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

Originally Posted by CPhoenix

No... that's not the night and day I'm referring to.

I'm keeping this story shirt because I hate typing on phones.

I owned an MAudio Firewire 410. Good interface.... but a pop in audio due to driver issues made me leave it. I went to an Echo Audiofire4. I only switched bc I wanted better, more stable drivers. That's it

After getting it set up.. I started making a beat. I struck a deep tom sound that I use all the time and heard a TERRIBLE hiss sound on the tail of the tom. It was so bad I thought my speakers must have busted. I did find troubleshooting.. and low and behold... the speakers were just fine.

I then realized... holy shit.... I'm hearing something I couldn't physically hear before. I didn't think DA converters made THAT much of a difference.

That sir... was life changing

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

I totally believe this though Psycho Monkey. I keep saying that the maudio stuff (and some MOTU when run on PC) are the ONLY converters that I ever thought sounded really bad. Like bad enough where using them wasn't even an option. The early Deltas? I thought they were damaged / broken.

I haven't heard every model, but the ones I have I didn't like at all.

That said, I think they made a couple of other things that were cool. Their little mic amp, a couple of pairs of monitors etc. are OK.

Converters...nah, not for me.

Peace,
john

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT

I totally believe this though Psycho Monkey. I keep saying that the maudio stuff (and some MOTU when run on PC) are the ONLY converters that I ever thought sounded really bad. Like bad enough where using them wasn't even an option. The early Deltas? I thought they were damaged / broken.

I haven't heard every model, but the ones I have I didn't like at all.

That said, I think they made a couple of other things that were cool. Their little mic amp, a couple of pairs of monitors etc. are OK.

Converters...nah, not for me.

Peace,
john

I've never used one in anger, so I really can't comment!

I can definitely say this ISN'T the sort of difference between eg a 192 and a Lavry, that I have heard, and I've heard the term "night and day" mentioned there! It's more "kinda looking like its going to get dark soon" and day.....

[CPhoenix]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

One budget-ish interface to another, and that's the difference?

Wow...I wasn't there so I can't really say anything further, but there must have been something seriously wrong before!

No... one absolutely budget interface to a quality interface w/ a good price tag. I looked into it and Echo has some innovative methods for AD/DA conversion in their designs. Great interface for the cost. Price tag doesn't mean it's budget lol.


I can't be certain if you'd hear a 'night and day' difference between say a Profire 610 and an PT HD system... b/c I haven't heard the two to compare. I have no idea how drastic it would be. But I can tell you for a fact that certain DA converters are night & day different. Mine happened to be like that.... and I thank god that I can finally hear sh-t like that. it was life changing. The more detail you can hear in the mix... the better you can mix. On my FW 410... I always felt something wrong w/ certain frequencies... but I couldn't really tell what was going on... i didn't knwo what to do. Now.. on the Echo... granted I can't say it's perfect DA... but I can now hear stuff I didn't hear before and I can fix it.

Converters... in addition to acoustcs of course.. are a huge deal if you mix. No so much if you just produce. Let's not downplay it. It's huge.

[Hardtoe]

Originally Posted by Andrew Kinsey

If you set your Ensemble to take the WC from the SPDIF input then it will work the way you described. Its allways worth A/B'ing with the internal clock of the Ensemble as they most likely sound a bit different.

Thanks a bunch for the info - I think I may just try it out and see how it floats my boat - I just wanted to be sure I wasn't setting myself up for a headache.

[ShadowAMD]

Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT

I totally believe this though Psycho Monkey. I keep saying that the maudio stuff (and some MOTU when run on PC) are the ONLY converters that I ever thought sounded really bad. Like bad enough where using them wasn't even an option. The early Deltas? I thought they were damaged / broken.

I haven't heard every model, but the ones I have I didn't like at all.

That said, I think they made a couple of other things that were cool. Their little mic amp, a couple of pairs of monitors etc. are OK.

Converters...nah, not for me.

Peace,
john

I find it odd that many people dislike MOTU converters, when there has been a lot of info on how they are pretty high spec for what they are.

I'm not saying your wrong, but I find it interesting. Unless they are just built poorly and like cars you get a lemon or a catch?

[Johnkenn]

So - after having a Symphony i/o for about a while, I downsized to a Hilo. The long story short is that I only needed two channels in, so I sold the Symphony, got the Hilo and pocketed the difference. I was prepared to settle for less quality - and figured I could always buy the i/o if it bothered me enough...BUT
after using this thing for a while, I swear I'm getting BETTER quality out of my recordings. I don't know what it is, but I am satisfied with everything I'm recording right now. I swear the midrange seems to not be a problem anymore, less boomy bottom end and smoother top end. I can truly say this is an excellent box and well worth anyone's consideration.