sony dre 2000 mystery

[mr.styles]

Ursa Major Space Station
Quantec QRS
Quantec yardstick
lexicon 480
eventide sp2016

I am yet to hear a plugin that can touch these 'old rack' units tbh.

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by atticmike

bloated ego taking over on gearslutz once more

Sorry, a little harsh perhaps, but it is not ego and I have no desire to take over Gearslutz. You did display a rather lacking of knowledge of console routing though, pretty elementary stuff.

Originally Posted by atticmike

How much was the amigo and how much is it now?

It was a long time ago, I don't remember exactly but I recall they told me it cost something like 40 or 50 grand.

Not sure how much they are worth now.

[atticmike]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

Sorry, a little harsh perhaps, but it is not ego and I have no desire to take over Gearslutz. You did display a rather lacking of knowledge of console routing though, pretty elementary stuff.

I wish I had the opportunity to dig in into console routing but I unfortunately never had it and every time I was in a studio with either my band or by producing / mixing, I never really got enough time to understand the complete scheme of the old way of routing things and, patching out and patching stuff back in.

It somehow made the most sense to me, having the effects running on a separate channel without the dry signal.

Been doing in the box for almost a decade now.

Though if it comes to EQing, track arrangement and use of compression overall, I bet I could out-Herod Herod on modern rock / metal mixes.

Took me three years to be just a reader on gearslutz before I registered and just a hundred posts after three additional because I've never had time to really post anything.

So please don't judge people by their post count or questions that are maybe elemental / compulsory by your view without knowing what the other person may be capable of apart from that one thing.

And about that so called "elementary" routing information, I can name you more than a handful of experienced engineers who put verbs on prior to the mixing stage and bake it before the cake is already in the stove.

One could also argue about the pre-baking method in general whenever it comes to recording and the ensuing mixing stage. I for my part like everything dry and clean, to be spanked with lotsa character in the mixing stage (apart of a somewhat pre-baking choice concerning the pres & mics which you really can't keep kosher before the mixing where it is a choice of character prior to the mixing one cannot circumvent).

It was a long time ago, I don't remember exactly but I recall they told me it cost something like 40 or 50 grand.

Not sure how much they are worth now.

Holy ****, getting a quartet was almost like getting a proper console right?

--

Usually I don't use any reverb if there are room mics that I squash sort of to the hilt and make them sit.

Here's an example where I had to use the true verb to get the drums in a space:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/70609905/example1.wav

Recordings came in a terrible condition, the choice of converters and pres were 200 bucks in a box.

Here's an example of just the drums before and after including the true verb (plugin):

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/70609905/drums_before.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/70609905/drums_after.mp3

By the way, drums before had already plenty automation applied on top of that.

[nickelironsteel]

sine he was just at pesando's place here's a detailled pic of CLA's SONY DRE 2000 and ... i simply dont get it ... i mean i knew that his is set to 1 sec since he mentioned it in an interview but... WHY are the level and delay times BLANK? im confused



and if you look closely at the bottom of the remote, it says LARRY. the tech who modded it?

[seancostello]

Originally Posted by digitrax

This is largely because hardware can sum several delay lines at slightly different phase to each other into a composite stereo signal.
Now, software can do this as well, but its phase relations can be no more exact than +/- one sample (at output), whereas hardware can provide frequency-dependent phase relations between multiple engines (or multiple outputs from the same engine) with infinite resolution (using analog filters and discrete circuits).

Digital hardware and digital software both use interpolated delay lines, for chorusing and reverb modulation. These delay lines interpolate between samples, using various mathematical tricks, to obtain non-integer delay lengths. Most older hardware would have had somewhat larger divisions of the single-sample quantum, such as 1/32nd or 1/64th of a sample, due to fixed point issues. Floating point plugins can divide up a single sample into as many chunks as are supported by the floating point resolution. In practice, this results in less noisy interpolation.

[nickelironsteel]

Originally Posted by seancostello

plugins can divide up a single sample into as many chunks as are supported by the floating point resolution. In practice, this results in less noisy interpolation.

its all about character.

[seancostello]

Originally Posted by nickelironsteel

its all about character.

"Less noisy interpolation" != "better interpolation," at least for reverbs. No judgement intended by my observations.

In my algorithms, I tend to switch between "ideal" interpolation, and noisy, lossy interpolation, depending on what the situation calls for.

[Mho]

Hi Sean! Have you checked the Sony DRE 2000 ? What do you think about it? Can it be done ITB? (can you make a plugin version???? :D)

[seancostello]

Originally Posted by Mho

Hi Sean! Have you checked the Sony DRE 2000 ? What do you think about it? Can it be done ITB? (can you make a plugin version???? :D)

I've never heard the DRE2000. Are they expensive? I can see if any of the local studios has one available for rent, but I don't know how close I can get to the architecture.

Also, are there any similar reverbs, that would be cheaper yet sound similar? I know this is the case with some of the Yamaha stuff, where the various guitar-oriented products from the 1980's cost next to nothing in the local Craigslist listings.

[Mho]

Yes, they are (or were) uber expensive... It is suposed to be state of the art unmatchable digital 80s reverb...

[mixmixmix]

"interpolation" ,"chunks","integer" -

"boring", "flat", "uninspiring"


"masturbating on gearslutz ad nauseum" - " spending $200 and hearing for yourself"

f..k plugin reverbs....

[imixrecords]

I have one a DRE and i use it alot

[seancostello]

Originally Posted by mixmixmix

"interpolation" ,"chunks","integer" -

"boring", "flat", "uninspiring"


"masturbating on gearslutz ad nauseum" - " spending $200 and hearing for yourself"

f..k plugin reverbs....

[waveterm]

Originally Posted by digitrax

This is largely because hardware can sum several delay lines at slightly different phase to each other into a composite stereo signal.
Now, software can do this as well, but its phase relations can be no more exact than +/- one sample (at output), whereas hardware can provide frequency-dependent phase relations between multiple engines (or multiple outputs from the same engine) with infinite resolution (using analog filters and discrete circuits).

Well, I doubt this is true for many of the classic units since they usually only have a single DAC per channel.

WT

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

Reread the last post you quoted. He said AT AMIGO, as in Amigo Studios.

I don't own a Bricasti, but have heard them. EQ'ing any plugin I know of will not sound like a Bricasti. Even using Bricasti impulses in Altiverb or whatever.

As far as the old verbs go, these old units have a sound to them. I have tried...over and over to get the sound using a DAW, and it never works the same. There is actually a lack of clarity in these boxes sometimes that helps with ambiguity and makes the reverb sound more realistic.

There is a hint of "mystery" left in the sound, that IMO actually happens in real life.

In a concert hall, you don't really hear paper rustle reverberate from 40 meters away like you do on some of the new convolution reverbs. You can tweak them so you don't have this issue, but for me, it wrecks what's good about the sound you already have.

Also, just saying, even though you only use echo and reverb for "spice" in your mixes, they should still be the best you can get your hands on. Anything you mix into your mix, should have a clear purpose, and sound the best it can. If it doesn't? It's clutter. Particularly reverb, because bad reverbs or bad reverb choices will eat your mix up and clutter the f*ck outta it probably quicker than most things.

Besides that, most times you are trying to leave a convincing sense of a real environment in your mix, not add in the actual "sound" of the reverb. I think of the best reverbs as doing what they are truly supposed to. On these you don't hear a bunch of washy, crappy artifacts, you just hear your instrument in a "real" environment.

I also judge reverbs on how well they hold a note, and how far up and down the registers you can still hear reverberation without a lot of artifact and things that would not be present in a real room. How true does the note sound? All I want to hear is the note or instrument reverberated, and not distorted in anyway. Unless distortion is the intended effect.

Many plugin reverbs that I have tried, are appallingly BAD compared to what used to be the norm. Something is missing, it sounds more like a sound effect, than a real room. It's flatter, has less depth, and many can be extremely ringy and metallic, like a way outta tune plate.

Point is, before you knock them, try a few. This is not ego based, I really could care less, and thought I might try to help is all.

Peace,
john

[nickelironsteel]

this went offtipic just too soon. anyone know how it is possible (see post #34) that CLAs DRE 2000 has no LEVEL and DELAY TIME values?

[seancostello]

Originally Posted by nickelironsteel

sine he was just at pesando's place here's a detailled pic of CLA's SONY DRE 2000 and ... i simply dont get it ... i mean i knew that his is set to 1 sec since he mentioned it in an interview but... WHY are the level and delay times BLANK? im confused

Maybe the LEDs are broken?

[waveterm]

Maybe because it is in a different mode than normal ?

[nickelironsteel]

? a different DRE 2000 ? how.. different ? doesnt make sense

[waveterm]

Different menu.

WT

[nickelironsteel]

tried that already. REVERB A/B/C/D all show the "SEC". ECHO-1/ECHO-2/DELAY-1/DELAY-1 dont show SEC at all. so its still a "mystery" and fits the topic of the thread

the remote also doesnt show if it is REVERB A/B/C/D either (4 the blue buttons on the left).

so there's only 2 options left: either all the lights just died or... a guy called LARRY modded it so it doesnt show the secret Lord-Alge Bros.
snare sound values

oh the mystery of this thread

[waveterm]

You have a DRE-2000 ?

WT

[nickelironsteel]

and a DRE 2000-A, yes

[waveterm]

Cool !

What´s the difference between them ?

WT

[nickelironsteel]

they look different. i dont hear a difference. one of them is a very rare one with the looks of the 2000A but it says 2000.

i just saw a picture of CLA's remotes (2) where the remotes both work and show all values. so it "may be" that the lights just died.

i love em on toms. the people in the 80s who couldnt afford a real sony dre 2000 in the 80s went for the Eventide SP2016 as a cheap alternative. THUNDER.

[Bassmankr]

I agree, it's not really a high end thread with what the Sony DRE 2000 goes for now. I guess it's easier to post a question than hit search here or google

Sony DRE 2000 'verb - anyone used one / want one?

The key info from that thread is it was a precurser to Sony's other verbs, most of which are readily available and sound good. Big fan of the Sony verbs here, the rebadged Sony MU-R201 in the form of the Ibanez SDR 1000+ can be found for $140 (dark). The Sony R7 can be found for $300 (clean lush), and V77 can be found for $450 (pretty close soundwise to the R7 but a bit more modern). Their latest very expensive DRE S777 impulse response verb last I saw went for around $2k. The thing about the Sony impulse reverb and Yamaha's impulse verb is the amount of PARALLEL processing going on with thier high chip counts. For that reason alone I doubt you will see an acurate computer version of it. I thought there was some similar reasoning behind why that would not happen with the Bricasi too. Why not just enjoy each tool for what it is instead of thinking a computer has to do everything.

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by Bassmankr

The Sony R7 can be found for $300 (clean lush), and V77 can be found for $450 (pretty close soundwise to the R7 but a bit more modern).

I can't say about the V77 but I did buy an R7 at one point. I sold it rather quickly as it was not a very powerful reverb i.m.o. Rather lacking in detail as I recall.

Originally Posted by Bassmankr

Their latest very expensive DRE S777 impulse response verb last I saw went for around $2k. The thing about the Sony impulse reverb and Yamaha's impulse verb is the amount of PARALLEL processing going on with thier high chip counts. For that reason alone I doubt you will see an acurate computer version of it.

Those are sampling reverb units, and quite good from what has been said (no personal experience). Not sure how they relate to impulse response programs.

[nickelironsteel]

Bassmankr, this is an old ad and they guy bites himself in the behind regularily when getting offers still for it learning how much they are worth.
comparing the DRE 2000 with the later sony reverb modules is like comparing a tube fairchild with a solid state fairchild compressor, no not the 666, im talking model 663.
ive heard the mur and there is a reason those sell so cheap.
now the second best sony reverb which is on par for a modern sound with the dre 2000 is the DRE S777. amazing. have worked with it. love it.

the prices for the DRE 777 are sadly rising again. the last few remaining DRE 2000s are all in studio use and have to be traded, painfully

[Jim Williams]

If you want to get old Sony reverbs, you better buy a couple so you have a spare.

If it breaks and you call Sony, they will laugh at you when you ask them to repair it. I have and the original designer is gone and he took all the data with him. No parts, no support, no knowledge left at Sony.

They used to tell me to just go buy their new 777 sampling reverb, but they don't sell nor fix those either anymore.

Sony has gone the way of Lexicon, no service of their flagship products leaving original owners to suck up their investments and walk away.

That is no way to run a professional company. Now Sony makes software.

[nickelironsteel]

thats true, if you really are one of the (un)lucky ones to fall in love with (is there such a thing as?) vintage digital you better have spares.