Need two channels of API(?) for tracking guitars <2K
I dual mic using an SM57 and M201. I need two high quality channels that are fast and punchy for tracking rock guitar. From what I have read, API is the standard here.
I also have a Radial X-amp which I would like to use for re-amping, but I need a high quality accurate DI that does really well with passive pickups.
My budget is < 2K. I have an Echo Layla 3G PCI for conversion. I would also prefer the preamp to be very quiet so I can use it for tracking acoustic guitars.
Units I am considering:
* A2D - Are the converters better than the Echo unit?
* 2x 512c in a rack mount - Is the 512 better than the 312?
Unless the a2d converters are better than what I have, I would rather go with 2x512c in a rack, that way I could later add channels in a box.
Budget units:
*Focusrite ISA two
Are there any other pres of this style that I should be taking a look at? This is a project studio in a large treated basement. Money saved on hardware can always be invested elsewhere.
the A2D would do you well. it would also be an upgrade to your converters.
however, unless you are doing stereo, why not get a lunchbox and start a collection of flavors? for me, while the 512c does fantastic for distorted guitars, i prefer my vintech x73 for clean guitars.
the A2D would do you well. it would also be an upgrade to your converters.
however, unless you are doing stereo, why not get a lunchbox and start a collection of flavors? for me, while the 512c does fantastic for distorted guitars, i prefer my vintech x73 for clean guitars.
I see the logic of a lunchbox, but time an money are limited. My system is stable and low latency with the layla 3g. If I went with a lunchbox, then I might need to upgrade converters as well, and that would mean time setting up a new interface.
Will my project studio gain more from the flexbilty of the lunchbox (I could buy a 512 and a Neve module) or the A2Ds better conversion?
I wouldn't discount the ClassicAPI stuff. I have the VP312 and it's absolutely awesome. You could get two of those in a 2-space rack for less than $1,000 if you or someone you know could build them.
I just did this track yesterday, guitars are double tracked, but each track is a single SM57 through a ClassicAPI VP312 in an API lunchbox.
I wouldn't discount the ClassicAPI stuff. I have the VP312 and it's absolutely awesome. You could get two of those in a 2-space rack for less than $1,000 if you or someone you know could build them.
I just did this track yesterday, guitars are double tracked, but each track is a single SM57 through a ClassicAPI VP312 in an API lunchbox.
Sounds great! Search on the web for an old interview given by Kevin Shirley on his micing technique with the 57/201. The guitar part has 57 written all over it, the mids and highs are angry and aggressive, but I think it could be even better with a 201 to find the bottom end. I don't have any samples to post, but it wasnt til I was dual micing that I got the cab sound.
I love tinkering but sadly I dont have the time to build any pres. I am going to get an A2D and go from there.
Sounds great! Search on the web for an old interview given by Kevin Shirley on his micing technique with the 57/201. The guitar part has 57 written all over it, the mids and highs are angry and aggressive, but I think it could be even better with a 201 to find the bottom end. I don't have any samples to post, but it wasnt til I was dual micing that I got the cab sound.
I love tinkering but sadly I dont have the time to build any pres. I am going to get an A2D and go from there.
Thanks man, it's not as bad as you think though. It took me about two hours to build mine. I have double mic'd before, I usually would use a 57/421 but I've found I just have a more controllable mix without it. I could definitely get more beef out of the 57 if I wanted it.
Thanks man, it's not as bad as you think though. It took me about two hours to build mine. I have double mic'd before, I usually would use a 57/421 but I've found I just have a more controllable mix without it. I could definitely get more beef out of the 57 if I wanted it.
Yeah, that tone works in the mix. My tunes use a single guitar and it needs to sing a bit, so I flesh it out with the 201.
Yeah, that tone works in the mix. My tunes use a single guitar and it needs to sing a bit, so I flesh it out with the 201.
Cool, I definitely would recommend going the lunchbox route though. I bought preamps ala carte at first too, once you take the plunge and get the box, it's really inexpensive to add new gear. I got the Great River Harrison 32EQ, put the VP312 in it, looking for something in the Neve family next.
A2d is a great piece. I love mine. Great sound and the converters are good and very convenient. Lunchboxes are all the rave, and for good reason, but the A2D is a really good way to get into a stereo API setup.
I have a lot of API stuff (pres, comps, and eqs and a lunchbox). I use that gear all the time. I the use 512s a lot on guitars a lot. I also use a lot of Chandlers on guitars. Sometimes one works, sometimes the other. API is great stuff though. Can't really go wrong.
The list price for API gear will be the same everywhere. A couple dealers might be able to give you a bit lower with some haggling. I get great deals from Sweetwater. I know they've quoted me a lot less than other dealers many times. I have a great relationship with my rep. Highly recommended.
I can't tell you how awesome the Lunchbox is though. So much flexibilty. And converters are important, but not as important as everything else in your signal chain. If you aren't recording top notch gear with great players, the converters aren't going to make much difference.
Sorry, I don't know your skill level. I do know that 6 years ago when I started making records on my own, I thought I needed better converters. It wasn't until I started working in great rooms with top notch equipment with great players that it actually made a difference.
Just trying to save you some pesos hombre.
YMMV
JROD
__________________
Music soothes even the savage beast.
I have a lot of API stuff (pres, comps, and eqs and a lunchbox). I use that gear all the time. I the use 512s a lot on guitars a lot. I also use a lot of Chandlers on guitars. Sometimes one works, sometimes the other. API is great stuff though. Can't really go wrong.
The list price for API gear will be the same everywhere. A couple dealers might be able to give you a bit lower with some haggling. I get great deals from Sweetwater. I know they've quoted me a lot less than other dealers many times. I have a great relationship with my rep. Highly recommended.
I can't tell you how awesome the Lunchbox is though. So much flexibilty. And converters are important, but not as important as everything else in your signal chain. If you aren't recording top notch gear with great players, the converters aren't going to make much difference.
Sorry, I don't know your skill level. I do know that 6 years ago when I started making records on my own, I thought I needed better converters. It wasn't until I started working in great rooms with top notch equipment with great players that it actually made a difference.
Just trying to save you some pesos hombre.
YMMV
JROD
Thanks for the tip. I have 20 years playing experience, but I am not a professional and this is a project studio. I have been doing the DAW thing for 10+ years, I use Samplitude Pro (upgraded for the sound about five years ago- it does sound better than Sonar), have a collection of good dynamic mics, and "decent" condensers.
I am fortunate to have a large treated basement, although I have a dedicated cab set up in an isolation booth which represents the majority of my analog recordings. Bass is recorded direct. The only things that get recorded acoustically is voice and acoustic guitar and I don't think the room is the limitation here...
I have the MPA Gold which I really dislike because it is noisy.. so its not great for acoustic guitar, and it does not seem very fast or dynamic. Even on its most clean settings, it imparts a character or "mud" that diminishes the electric guitar takes, makes them sound mellower than they are. Its missing some sparkle. I have gotten slightly better guitar results with built in clean mic pres in the Layla. I need something with punch, clarity, and weight. And I need something really quiet for acoustic guitar.
I figure I can always use two channels of API and whether I will hear benefits from the converters straight away, I'm not sure, but I think it may pay dividends down the road.
The a2d is a great unit as are the 512c's. I've used them side by side for years and without directly a/bing them I can't say that I hear a difference between them. The echo Layla is a fine converter. The a2d is better but the you shouldn't notice a massive difference. Don't be afraid to go the with a 10space rack for future purchases.
Converters wouldn't be a must for me in your situation, but it doesn't cost a ton with the A2D. Its gonna cost a bit for 2 channels of API. If I only had API pres, I could absolutely make a killer record.
Are there any other pres of this style that I should be taking a look at? This is a project studio in a large treated basement. Money saved on hardware can always be invested elsewhere.
Chandler TG2 is fantastic - interchangeable with my APIs for electric guitars but a little sweeter on acoustic, in my opinion.
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