Kurzweil Mangler - a serious high end effects processor worth having?

[Hershal Pearlma]

Hello Gearslutz friends,

I have these effects units in my studio at the moment:

Eventide Eclipse Harmonizer

TC 2290 delay w/EH Memory Man Deluxe in the effects loop chain if needed.

Lexicon PCM70 X2

Lexicon PCM81

Sansamp PSA-1

With these devices as my foundation, would the Kurzweil Mangler be a welcome addition and of use to me or would I hear it and feel that it wasn't on the same level as my Eventide or PCM81 sonically and want to get rid of it?

Or would it offer some new great sounds that the PCM81 and Eclipse won't do?

I need another effects processor for the treatments I do and I am considering one of three options for modulation effects and modulation delays and echos:

1. Mangler

2. Used Yamaha SPX 90 or SPX 1000

3. Used Eventide H3000 (I am afraid this would cover all the same territory and be too similar to the Eclipse?)

Which of these would you do if you had my current set of tools or would you suggest something else?

Thanks for any advice. It is greatly appreciated!

[Hershal Pearlma]

Does no one around here own a Mangler?

If you do own one, I would love to Know if it is worth having next to what I already have.

The PCM81 is a real bitch to program so i was thinking of just using it's reverb algorithms for reverb and avoiding the other effects it can do as they are really tricky to set up and time consuming with all the LFO patching and crap they make you do jusy to get a chorus or flange or other modulations.

Will the Mangler do modulation and delay effects better than the PCM81?

[tvanveen]

I'd be interested in hearing what people are using their manglers on as well. Mine should be here next week.

[Drumsound]

I sold my PCM 80 and bought a Mangler for 1/2 the money. The Mangler sounds cool and is easy to use. I use it for flange a lot. The odder effects are great, but lately I haven't had a use for them.

[norman_nomad]

I've had a mangler for about 2 years now and I think they're great... especially for the money. You can get A LOT of sounds from this thing... plenty of tweakability...

The converters are great, and often I use it as a D/A monitoring device in place of my 002R which sounds noticeably more "foggy".

I think it's on the same quality scale as the pcm81.. better in some ways... believe it or not I think the compressor section on the Mangler is one of it's strong suits and it trumps most of my plug-in compressors. The "filter" and "distortion" banks are pretty cool too.

The one thing I don't like about it is that you can't stack effects... in other words, you can't run a compressor, then a chorus, then a verb all on on patch... or something like that. You have to work within the confines of the presets. Evidently you can stack with the Kurzweil KSP8.

[feyshay]

The Mangler is a good value. I had one and ended up getting rid of it, though.
I ended up with a KSP8. I love this thing. The reverb algorithms are great.
What makes it so much better than the Mangler is the ability to chain (use a number of algorithms in a chain) and the control over your algorithms. You might want to check out the documentation on Kurzweil's site and take a look at the algorithms and manual for the KSP8. I know it is a lot more expensive, but it might be worth it to you. I'll bet the KSP8's converters are better, but I don't use them. I rely on Optical ADAT for transfer of data. I can have 4 different presets or chains running concurrently.
If not, you won't regret the Mangler for that price. I believe it has RCA type SPDIF.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Hershal Pearlma

Which of these would you do if you had my current set of tools or would you suggest something else?

I am not sure what kind of music you are doing.


But looking at your list from an outsiders perspective it seems you need a great reverb.


Which one?


It comes down to how much you would like to spend.

Originally Posted by Hershal Pearlma

Thanks for any advice. It is greatly appreciated!

thumbsup

[Mastering101]

i thought the mangler sucked.. sold it on ebay the next day..lol.. its not high end by fardfegad

[Hershal Pearlma]

Thrillfactor,

Do my PCM 70's not constitue great reverb. Frankly I think they sound wonderful on my guitars and my PCM 81 is breathtaking....cleaner and more hi-fi with a bit more realism and less of that thick effect of thePCM70's but still very good reverb wouldn't you say?

I love the Lexicon sound. Do you think I should have gotten a PCM91 instead of the 81?

I run my PCM81 at 16 bit 44.1kHz instead of 24bit 48kHz (control menu-audio settings) because it makes it sound thicker and more like the PCM70 and that classic lexicon sound. It's thicker that way.

I was under the impression that the the reverbs in the 81 were closer to the PCM70 and other older Lexicons because they are made up of 8 delay taps and the PCM91's reverbs are made up of 16 delay taps which is different than all previous Lexicon Reverbs. I was under the impression that the PCM91's reverbs were not as good in terms of thickness and having that Lexicon sound and that they were more like the TC electronic reverbs? Is this not the case? Would I be better off with a PCM 91 than the PCM81 for Lexicon sounding verb?

I also have the LXP-1 but the tails are ringy and grainy sounding on longer sustaining reverbs which I use a lot of. It's a noisy box so I don't use it unless I have to. I find the PCM70 gives me the character of the LXP-1 but much better and smoother.

Should I ditch the 81 and get a 91 to have a better dedicated reverb? I reallly don't like the idea of having something a large as a 480L or a 224 in my home studio. I have used the 224XL and it was noisy too.

What do you suggest Thillfactor?

Also, Should I be getting another dedicated delay unit? If so which one? Or are the Mangler's delays really good? Maybe something that can do more lo-fi delays like echos?

[e-cue]

Originally Posted by Hershal Pearlma

With these devices as my foundation, would the Kurzweil Mangler be a welcome addition and of use to me or would I hear it and feel that it wasn't on the same level as my Eventide or PCM81 sonically and want to get rid of it?

Are you seriously asking people for your opinion of gear you haven't even tried yet?

*sigh* Labs, if you are still out there, I see what you mean.




To answer your question, I believe the Mangler is a great unit and would work nicely into the gear you already own. The "Everyday Chorus" setting in it is one of my fav's. The "Burnt Transistor" sounds like gear damaging distortion. Lots of cool stuff to work with in your current line up IMO. Spend 1 minute with it, and you should know if it's your cup of tea.

[MasterTrax]

"i thought the mangler sucked.. sold it on ebay the next day..lol.. its not high end by far"

That's just juvenile. ^

I'd say if you are happy with your reverbs get a Mangler. If you are not happy with your curent reverbs get a Rumour.

I have used a Mangler to do some very wild effect stuff. It's a powerful box. The Rumour is more about verbs.

M

[GYang]

Originally Posted by Hershal Pearlma

I love the Lexicon sound. Do you think I should have gotten a PCM91 instead of the 81?

I was under the impression that the PCM91's reverbs were not as good in terms of thickness and having that Lexicon sound and that they were more like the TC electronic reverbs? Is this not the case? Would I be better off with a PCM 91 than the PCM81 for Lexicon sounding verb?

I reallly don't like the idea of having something a large as a 480L or a 224 in my home studio.

Just my humble opinion that with smaller budget you'll get lot of reverb from Lexicon M300 (they usually go for 1,5 k on Ebay), it's affordable and reliable (I have or had several during many years), it's not 480L, but it doesn't set you back 6K, too. Despite some opinions on its supremacy, I sold 480 (and some older Lexicons) and kept only couple of 300L when I need that flavour.
TC Elelctronics 4000 is different sounding (I would never think as less good than any Lexicon), but top quality main reverb, if budget of 2-2,5k is OK.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by Hershal Pearlma

Should I ditch the 81 and get a 91 to have a better dedicated reverb? I reallly don't like the idea of having something a large as a 480L or a 224 in my home studio. I have used the 224XL and it was noisy too.

The 224XL is an older box...12-bit I think right?! By todays standards they'd be a bit noisy even if it's operating in spec, 20 years of aging caps & parts can't help that. But I duno, in all practice I've never found a 200 or 224 to be unusable because of noise.

The 80/81 is an FX box...the 90/91 is geared for & dedicated to 'verbs. Personally, they kinda sound that way too but it's better for you to try them yourself & see if they work for you or not.

Only you can figure out what you need...we don't know your music, your style and what you think may or may not be lacking in your home studio.