Klein & Hummel o300 DISSAPOINTED

[carloff]

I love K+H O300 more than 40 albums mixed on them..
ofcourse as any others monitors it is good to have at least one another pair of different types of monitors in studio

[danceobsessive]

Originally Posted by just_manu

I am really dissapointed with them, and I can't understand why all the people at forums say that these are good monitors for mixing. They are possibly one of the bests for composing, but I think mixing is not their function.

For mixing I would prefer a flatter and less forgiving sound.

Thank you so much for reading and hope this is usefull for future buyers.

I'd have to completely disagree with the above - it's the opposite.

I have had O300s for over 3 years now, mixed our latest album on them, and find them very uninspiring for writing on but great for surgical EQ work and mixing. I find them really hard work, but the results are good in terms of translation.

They are not very loud monitors, and require a sub really if you are doing dance music for example. If you run them hard, then the limiter will cut in and the sound won't be flat anymore.

Still a great monitor in my opinion, but not for everyone.

P.S. There is no way I'd use them as hi-fi speakers - they are not coloured enough!

[monads]

Everyone has a personal preference, but I didn't find them hifi at all. More neutral, with clarity and bass presence. The 0800 sub addition makes a big difference especially when comparing A/B mixes.

[GMR]

Like them but absolutely need a sub to check what is going on down there!!!

[Tim Davis]

Opened up a new world for me adding the o800 sub.

How loud do you guys mix?! I have never reached the limiter on mine and I've run them at SCREAMING volumes.


I like the monitors, but they still leave me questioning what else is out there / better..

[msflsim]

Originally Posted by Tim Davis

...How loud do you guys mix?! I have never reached the limiter on mine and I've run them at SCREAMING volumes.

Same here, I really do not understand how loud people need them to be. As they are meant to be used for near-field monitoring i have never managed to kick the limiter in. I did try it just to hear what it does to the sound but i can assure you that you wouldnt be able to monitor like that for more than a few minutes as its really loud!

[Bluzzi]

I've come to conclude that one of the reasons we all have contrasting opinions may be our own ear's frequency response as well as our musical experience. Now, I am saying maybe and one of the reasons so don't bombard me.

I just find it crazy how many people love the 0300 and as many find it "blah".

I tried a pair last year just before mixing a CD (they were slightly used from a known source and half price so based on what everyone was saying here I had to jump on them). I was really excited and set them up as soon as I got into the studio with them. I was very disappointed listening back with them. Also although I don't mix loud all the time I do like to push volume up from time to time (I also turn it down really low to see what happens at lower levels). Of course the limiter kicked in from time to time. I found that unacceptable that someone has decided for me what level I cannot surpass. It's like buying a Maserati and finding a governor on the engine so it cannot go past 100.

I called a friend who is not a mix engineer but has exceptional ears and he agreed with my opinion of the acoustic performance. I finally had to bring it to a friend's studio and also test it there. Same conclusion there from him.

Now we all know there are many recordings mixed on these that sound amazing (Yes I am speculating but I am willing to bet on it) and I guess some of those great recordings were done in imperfect rooms and maybe speakers placed in more practical position than perfect acoustic position (bad way of expressing I know but you know what I mean). So I don't think anyone who finds the 0300 not to their liking has necessarily placed them badly.

Furthermore I would also bet that many that did not like the 0300 also can and have created great mixes (also in varied acoustic spaces etc.).

So conclusion would be that the variable is the person doing the mixing.

There is no perfect monitor for everyone! Buying a monitor without listening and comparing to one or more pairs at the same time is akin to gambling at the roulette table. The more you try monitors and the more you mix on many monitors the better you get at distinguishing what is best for you.

I also tried the Focal Twin 6 and although I liked them better than the 0300 I realized I would need some time to get used to them so I stuck with monitors I knew better even though I knew they were less revealing in some areas. For the money I found they could have been better.

So although I was hyped by what everyone was saying about the 0300 I came to the opposite conclusion. Am I right? Absolutely! But only for me!

The ideal would be to try monitors for a few weeks.

Sorry for long message.

Cheers

Jim

[Colour Field]

Auditioning monitors in your own space is obviously the best idea - if you live someplace where access to demo units is a given. Living in New Zealand, the only models available for demo are the basic cheapies - Event, Mackies, KRK - that sort of monitor line. There is nowhere you can get the likes of ATC or Gethain etc to listen to, so you have to rely on peer opinions and reviews if you want to move up to a more expensive monitoring solution.

So, I'm hoping that Ed Cherney, George Ausperger and Al Schmitt are all right, as I've got a set of HG-3's arriving next week.

Tim

[danceobsessive]

When making bass heavy (dance) music, during the production process it is easy to hit the limiter once in a while in my experience. Not so easy once you are looking at mastered/compressed mixes. It also depends how big your room is and how far away the K&H are positioned.

I wouldn't advocate loud monitoring, but compared to something like the barefoot mm27, clearly the O300s aren't a loud monitor, and I think this is the point. It's well known that they don't do the big SPLs. But clearly that is fine for some people.

Personally though, if making dance music for example it is important to have the occasional loud "blast" to see how a mix sounds at volume, as I find I will mix a little too bass light at lower volumes. Everyone is different of course. I have not found "quick blast" at silly SPLs to be so necessary when I'm working on other styles of music not intended for play in a club....

Still think the O300s are a great tool, but they are not inspiring/vibe monitors, they are monitors!

[danceobsessive]

I should add I also have a pair of mm27 and I think that these likely a better choice on the whole. The 2 together though are bliss I find as they are so very different. You can never have too many monitors! (so long as you know them well)

[just_manu]

Thank you so much for all your answers.

I must say that the studio where I am working at is owned by two of the best composers and music engineers in all europe since 70s, and everytime they listen to the K&H, say that everything you do on them, is OK, there is no need for tweaking with the mix, and the bass you are listening from them is hyped and everything sounds too "beautiful and pleasant" to mix on them.

I am using a pair of old Smart Audio speakers since yesterday, and is like day and night. Now I hear the fails of the mixes, and with the o300, everything was right.

It is a pity for me because I bought them with a lot of effort and love, and it hurts me say that they were not a good choice, almost for me, but they are not what I need.

This is only an opinion, and I am happy to see that there is a lot of people loving them to death

Btw, I am selling them (they are absolutely new).

Thanks again for reading.

Regards.

Enviado desde mi GT-I9000 usando Tapatalk

[sage691]

Hi MANU !!


Could you please tell me which Genelecs you were comparing the 0300 monitors to ?

Originally Posted by just_manu

Thank you so much for all your answers.

I must say that the studio where I am working at is owned by two of the best composers and music engineers in all europe since 70s, and everytime they listen to the K&H, say that everything you do on them, is OK, there is no need for tweaking with the mix, and the bass you are listening from them is hyped and everything sounds too "beautiful and pleasant" to mix on them.

I am using a pair of old Smart Audio speakers since yesterday, and is like day and night. Now I hear the fails of the mixes, and with the o300, everything was right.

[Tubefreak]

Just finished installing and testing a fresh pair of O300's in my new studio. Some of my favourite records sounded bad, others amazing. Exactly what i need: the truth. Imo they tell all and don't nice things up.

[Silvan]

Originally Posted by Tubefreak

Exactly what i need: the truth. Imo they tell all and don't nice things up.

+1!

Exactly my take on the O300s. Stunning detail, brutal honesty, mix laid totally bare.

Not at all flattering - flaw-exposing to a fault!

[danceobsessive]

Originally Posted by just_manu

Thank you so much for all your answers.

I must say that the studio where I am working at is owned by two of the best composers and music engineers in all europe since 70s, and everytime they listen to the K&H, say that everything you do on them, is OK, there is no need for tweaking with the mix, and the bass you are listening from them is hyped and everything sounds too "beautiful and pleasant" to mix on them.

Glad you sorted it out.

No monitor is for everyone. I do find it bizarre that you find the bass hyped! They are a sealed (non-ported) speaker, and hyped bass is certainly not a characteristic I would attribute to them!

I do wonder if it's something in your room that is causing this.

It's amazing how subjective all our opinions are on these things, as I find the KH flat & lifeless and they make me work very hard!

I agree with Silvan.

[Plush]

Big 0300D fan here. In fact I'm a fan of all Klein and Hummel monitors.

Of course I cannot agree with anything that the OP has written nor can I endorse anything said by the studio owners where he works.

KH 0300 is a universal control monitor and always was designed with that in mind. They show it all and if the program sounds poor, then so be it.

What are we to make about a comment that the program material sounds too good? Hilarious.

The KH models were designed to be a mix monitor from the first day.

Check your room, check your mix, check your ears and check your belief system.

[mista min]

Originally Posted by Plush

Big 0300D fan here. In fact I'm a fan of all Klein and Hummel monitors.

Of course I cannot agree with anything that the OP has written nor can I endorse anything said by the studio owners where he works.

KH 0300 is a universal control monitor and always was designed with that in mind. They show it all and if the program sounds poor, then so be it.

What are we to make about a comment that the program material sounds too good? Hilarious.

The KH models were designed to be a mix monitor from the first day.

Check your room, check your mix, check your ears and check your belief system.

Sorry, but we have a treated room and our PMC's sound great. If I was spending that kind of money on a monitor I would get something like the O410. Now that is a real speaker! O300??? Not so much.

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by Plush

Check your room, check your mix, check your ears and check your belief system.

Check your subjectivity.

Like I and others have said, no one monitor is for everyone.

And that's the truth.

[just_manu]

Hi sage691, they are the Genelec 1032A.

Enviado desde mi GT-I9000 usando Tapatalk

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by mista min

Sorry, but we have a treated room and our PMC's sound great. If I was spending that kind of money on a monitor I would get something like the O410. Now that is a real speaker! O300??? Not so much.

Interesting, as the O410 is designed to sound like the O300 - but bigger.

Unlike some manufacturers where every monitor sounds very different., the Neumann/K+H range are designed to sound as close as possible to each other, so you don't get a surprise when monitoring on small units on location and large units back at base.

So, if you don't like the O300, it's very likely you won't like the O410 either.

[mista min]

Originally Posted by John Willett

Interesting, as the O410 is designed to sound like the O300 - but bigger.

Unlike some manufacturers where every monitor sounds very different., the Neumann/K+H range are designed to sound as close as possible to each other, so you don't get a surprise when monitoring on small units on location and large units back at base.

So, if you don't like the O300, it's very likely you won't like the O410 either.

But I just told you I loved the O410 and not the O300 and I wanted to love the O300, but alas I didn't. The O410's where enjoyable to listen to, but clearly showed me what was wrong in a way no monitor has ever done. Also the O410 is ported and larger and they can aim to have similar "sounding" monitors, but the physics of it don't work that way. Bigger speaker, bigger room (or at least it should be) = different.

Bigger speaker, smaller room = different sound

Bigger speaker, same room = different sound

It is a different speaker :D

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by mista min

But I just told you I loved the O410 and not the O300 and I wanted to love the O300, but alas I didn't. The O410's where enjoyable to listen to, but clearly showed me what was wrong in a way no monitor has ever done. Also the O410 is ported and larger and they can aim to have similar "sounding" monitors, but the physics of it don't work that way. Bigger speaker, bigger room (or at least it should be) = different.

Bigger speaker, smaller room = different sound

Bigger speaker, same room = different sound

It is a different speaker :D

It shouldn't be *that* different.

Yes, the room will change things, but the monitors characteristics should be pretty close.


Different manufacturer I know, but I recently listened to the small ME Geithain RL906 and the large RL901K in the same room and they sounded pretty well identical.

The only difference was that the larger units were more "effortless" and had a greater bass extension.

So it can be done and my understanding was that Neumann/K&H had achieved this family sound.

[Bluzzi]

Originally Posted by Fleaman

Check your subjectivity.

Like I and others have said, no one monitor is for everyone.

And that's the truth.

Exactly! (including your signature not shown here)

Cheers

Jim

[Plush]

Originally Posted by Fleaman

Check your subjectivity.

Like I and others have said, no one monitor is for everyone.

And that's the truth.

I said that the KH 0300 was neutral. I never said it was for everyone.

Many "engineers" and PRO-DOO-SAHS (sic) posting here have very poor rooms. Some cannot hear. For that reason I don't really trust their opinion about monitors. This is especially true if their writing directly contradicts my experience and about something I know intimately.

Something is wrong in that case, wouldn't you agree?

0300 D + mega (read huge) PMC monitors here.

[mig27]

I might add that IMHO the O300s don't work all too well as nearfields.

Finding the right placement in my (well treated) room took a long time and lots of experimenting.
I've now settled for a midfield-ish positioning 4 ft. away.

One of the biggest assets of these monitors is that they'll sound great and balanced at lower volumes.
=> Less listening fatigue with longer sessions!

My 2 cents

[Bluzzi]

Originally Posted by Plush

I said that the KH 0300 was neutral. I never said it was for everyone.

Many "engineers" and PRO-DOO-SAHS (sic) posting here have very poor rooms. Some cannot hear. For that reason I don't really trust their opinion about monitors. This is especially true if their writing directly contradicts my experience and about something I know intimately.

Something is wrong in that case, wouldn't you agree?

0300 D + mega (read huge) PMC monitors here.

No I don't agree! That is my prerogative! And I don't judge you for disagreeing except for your presumptuous tone.

That's a lot of assumptions there! Are you psychic?

You don't have to trust anyone at all. Why is it that for some reason some people when they like something have to try and prove that anyone with a contrary opinion is wrong. That is just nonsense!

Nothing is wrong. People have been mixing great records for decades WITHOUT 0300 so I would ASSUME that there are OTHER MONITORS that are used by successful Producers (no need to spell it in a condescending way).

Oh yeah, I also have to say that many and many hits have been recorded in lousy rooms so there goes that theory. Sorry, I know this is Gearslutz but for me the main ingredient in great recordings is song, arrangement/performance along with a great recording engineer/producer then equipment.

Sorry just had to say it this way but the power of &^@%% compells me!

Cheers

Jim

[mista min]

Originally Posted by Plush

I said that the KH 0300 was neutral. I never said it was for everyone.

Many "engineers" and PRO-DOO-SAHS (sic) posting here have very poor rooms. Some cannot hear. For that reason I don't really trust their opinion about monitors. This is especially true if their writing directly contradicts my experience and about something I know intimately.

Something is wrong in that case, wouldn't you agree?

0300 D + mega (read huge) PMC monitors here.

Sorry, that the 10,000 euro acoustic treatment in the place we rent doesn't meet your standards and that our PMC's with NS-10's don't cut it. I wish I was as cool as you! ;(

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by Plush

I said that the KH 0300 was neutral. I never said it was for everyone.

'Neutral' compared to what??

There is no such thing as a 'neutral' monitor. If there was, everyone would buy just THAT monitor.

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by John Willett

So, if you don't like the O300, it's very likely you won't like the O410 either.

One of the biggest claimed pro's of 0300 fans is that they are a Sealed box.

The 0300 is a sealed design in a very small box, and it sounds like it (to me).

The 0410 is a much larger box and it's ported on top of that.

I can't see how there would be much similarity regarding the low to low-mids. And that is where all the energy is. When I listen/track/mix, I don't do it with the woofers disconnected.

[Plush]

Awfully sorry, but I refuse to enter the arena with rudeness. Instead I can just say that Klein and Hummel were always known as a German broadcast standard issue monitor with a neutral characteristic.

German broadcast spent tens of millions of Deutsche marks testing and measuring monitor speakers. They had certain criteria for the monitors--among them flat response, neutral sound, good transient ability,
sufficient power, excellent power supply.

The company itself sold thousands of pairs of monitors in to German broadcast facilities and to sell them to the German government, they had to meet strict specs.

For many decades Klein and Hummel were priced very high and especially here in the USA were priced high by Gotham Audio, distributor of Neumann mics here.

So they were always seen as a premium item.

They continue to attract a following today for the same reasons they always did. They portray the program material accurately. They act as a tool for adjustment of the audio.

So that is the reason I call them a neutral speaker. How do we know they are neutral? Because the German government and Klein and Hummel spent millions to make sure that they were neutral.

thankyasomuch!

And also I never said that the posters were wrong. I said that I disagreed with what they were saying. There is certainly a difference, but on GS it is fashionable (especially for those from Hell-A) to pounce and wrestle.

So the fact is that the KH monitors give it back to you just like you made it.